Curse

Draco Angelus · Nov 16, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

First I thought this skil rocked as I thought that the knockdown effect would apply if this hex ended, and only sooner if a skill was used, thus ending the hex.

However, if someone uses a skill while hexed with WC, it just ends and nothing happens, and with a 5 second duration this skill seems to be utterly useless to me.

The olny time it would work is is someone would blackout someone right after WC-ing him, wich is not very efficient.

so please someone tell me, can this elite(!) be of any efficient use?

Saphrium · Nov 16, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34

E denial(power leak)--Wastrel's collapse.

and yes, 5 seconds feels kinda long.

Mercury Angel · Nov 17, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Largely crap, I think.

The reason the duration is 5 seconds is probably because if you could spam it, then the duration wouldn't really be 5 seconds, in a sense. 5 seconds for the first one, then a 2 second knockdown, and 3 seconds only actually up. (3 knockdown and 2 seconds up with Earthbind)

Unfortunately, not only does it take too long to active, the recharge is 8 seconds, and bleh =\

Psychic Instability + Interrupts would work out better than Diversion + Wastel's. And I don't even really see too much point in that.

Maybe they'll give it a recharge buff down to at least 5, hopefully 3-4 seconds next update.

Phoenix Arrows · Nov 17, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

CRAP! I named my new character Shameful Waste (the name Wastrel's Collapse originally was) and I didn't bother to check in-game if it was still Shameful Waste...and now...it got a name change...NOES!

Yes, 5 seconds is too long. I don't think it's worth being elite.

Racthoh · Nov 17, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Ghostly hero when capping is about the only useful thing I could think of. As Claim Resource has a 5 second activation, you could use it just before they start use Claim Resource then cover it like crazy.

But... meh.

Riotgear · Nov 17, 2006, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Diversion or Shame, Wastrel's Collapse, then dump some cheap cover on it?

arredondo · Nov 17, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Here's my Wastrel's Collapse build:

=================================================
Shutdown Knockdown Mesmer (Me/As)

Domination: 14
Illusion: 10
Inspiration: 10
Fast Cast: 9
Deadly Arts: 3

Siphon Speed: -33% snare, +33% speed buff for 8s
Wastrel's Collapse: Hex spell that KDs foe if they don't use a skill for 5s
Blackout: Foe's skills are disabled for 6s, yours for 5s
Diversion: For 6s, one skill used by foe has an added +53s recharge

Power Drain: Interrupt a spell and receive +16E
Distortion: Dodge 75% physical attacks for 4s, -2E per whiff
Ether Feast: -3E to foe, +37 HP per energy drained (+111 HP max)
Rez

=================================================

Mercury Angel · Nov 17, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Out of curiousity, what does Wastrel's Collapse add to this build that isn't already accomplished without it?

You snare, Divert, and Blackout a target to shut them down, what exactly is Wastrel's Collapse adding to the equation?

Knockdowns are desirable because they are complete shutdown. They negate movement, most skill usage (not shouts, stances or castless skills), and attacking.

You already cripple movement with a snare and shut down skill usage with Diversion and Blackout, while Wastrel's Collapse isn't going to put much of a damper on normal attacking. The snare works much better in that respect.

I'm not saying one can't build around a 'bad' elite, but it hardly seems effective or worthwhile in this instance. I'd much rather throw in another more versatile elite in a variant on that build.

arredondo · Nov 18, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

KDs are awesome immobilizers of skill use and movement. -100% movement every 8s for your teammates to beat on him is better than the -33% of SS.

With that said, you make a good point. I guess I tackled this elite from the angle of "what can I do with it?" instead of "what does it significantly do for me?". For the elite spot it may indeed be better to consider other options if the build stays as is.

However, one thing that would add purpose to it is to use this skill for the Rez:

Quote:

Lift Enchantment (Deadly Arts Skill)
Must strike a knocked-down foe. That foe loses one Enchantment.
10C/1C/10R

This provides the most frequent disenchanting possible from the available skills using a non-elite. So a Monk will now have to deal with:

- Diversion threatening his skills
- Blackout shutdown on his skills
- Snared from running around
- Frequent KDs if he can't/won't cast
- A loss of an enchant when a KD occurs
- An occassional interrupt of perhaps a key spell

Even with perfect Power Drain there might not be enough energy to support this, so a defensive skill would need to be switched out (maybe EF) for Drain Enchant, another good complement skill for this idea. Team support would have to provide more defense though.

Vermilion Okeanos · Nov 18, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

The only thing I can think of is... not using it in immediate contact of battle, instead, used in later phase of the battle.

If you have a pressure build and start to force enemy into calculating their own energy, wastel's collapse may help you force them to perform something. While that, you should never count on the KD; if the opponent do get KD in 5 sec without you doing anything, just a few more stones on him when he is drowning.

Doing that for an elite? No ty

arredondo · Nov 20, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Well what if it did 100 points of damage when they fell. Would that make it more appealing?

Alleji · Nov 23, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

It's up there with keystone signet IMO.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 23, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Keystone signet is pretty handy elite, works great on W, R and Assassins. but i do agree Wastrels collapse is pretty unpowered. The only real use for it would possibly on Tryia Boss's who have reduced Hex times but even then it would be 4 or so seconds. I think the main reason Anet added it is that it make a great anti runner skill. since if the runner keeps running and doesnt use a skill hes gonna get KD (unless hes under balanced stance) and then he becomes an easy target.

Peka · Nov 23, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

lol i agree it is definatly one of the most useless elites :P

Draiyne · Nov 24, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

For a skill to be "used", doesn't it have to complete the activation time? If so, if this hex was cast on a spellcaster, for example, and all of their spells were interrupted (assuming they had no non-spell skills to use), the hex wouldn't end early and they would be knocked down. I'm not really sure how this would benefit, however, since the interruption of the spells would negate the need for knockdown.

I think it's just a badly thought out skill to stop people running from sins.

dargon · Nov 24, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

actually, it's a good skill for chasing a kiter. If they stop to do something and thus get rid of the hex, you catch up, if they don't, they fall down and you catch up.

Arcador · Nov 24, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

It is actually some sort of skill only good vs builds that do not have spamable skills...like....er....

...well... as the dude said to be able to apply this successfuly you need to shutdown your target in a way that with or without the 'collapse' the difference won't be that much now. It is like knocking down someone to be able to knock him down at the same time :0

Contempt · Nov 24, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Keystone signet is pretty handy elite, works great on W, R and Assassins. but i do agree Wastrels collapse is pretty unpowered. The only real use for it would possibly on Tryia Boss's who have reduced Hex times but even then it would be 4 or so seconds. I think the main reason Anet added it is that it make a great anti runner skill. since if the runner keeps running and doesnt use a skill hes gonna get KD (unless hes under balanced stance) and then he becomes an easy target.

What signets one a warrior ranger or assasin justify bringing keystone?

If the skill had much shorty recharge and 1/4 casting time, then I could see some real uses... but it's really very lame.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 24, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contempt

What signets one a warrior ranger or assasin justify bringing keystone?

If the skill had much shorty recharge and 1/4 casting time, then I could see some real uses... but it's really very lame.

Opps my bad got it confused with Signet of Midnight

but still it could be hand in a nice Full signet build, not that is used very often

Saphatorael · Nov 24, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

actually, it's a good skill for chasing a kiter. If they stop to do something and thus get rid of the hex, you catch up, if they don't, they fall down and you catch up.

And, it's a hex. Some assassin skills require a hex (Black Lotus/Spider strike), so it could also be used for that i suppose.