Curse

The Great Al · Oct 06, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

i say the recharge will go to at least 5 seconds..and that's the least they'll do.

it'll be a miracle if it stays as-is

Elruid · Oct 07, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Because I'm such a scatter-brain I actually first used Mind blast as a 5 sec recharge in my calculations, and that alone didn't much differ from the results I had later on when I corrected my error.. who knows though, given that, my calculations on the whole might be/quite likely are completely flawed. Sigh.

Anyhow it will be a real shame if they kill this one skill. I mean after a looong time, like, since the release of Prophecies and the nerf of Ether renewal, this is the only elite beside the age-old Elemental attunement, that got my attention. That is to say I'd actually use it in a build.

Wellwell, knowing ANet's ruthlessness regarding skill degrading, if they touch it, I might not touch it again..

Red Locust · Oct 07, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

If anything they'll buff it, because it's nothing special as is.

The Great Al · Oct 07, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Elruid - I thought it was odd that the damage was so much less, haha. I also am a firm believer in elem attune, but this is the one skill that may replace it. If they nerf it, and the only nerf is that they make it a 5 second recharge, i'll keep it in. if they lower the damage to mirror flare I'd also probably keep it in. Anything else..forget it.

Red Locust, are you serious?

Mouse at Large · Oct 07, 2006, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Why nerf it? After a long period of the ele class being relegated to a support role, especially in PvE, there's now a good chance that they'll finally be able to be damage dealers again in their own right.

Also remember, Draw Conditions/Extinguish for a Monk and Cautery Signet/Remedy Signet for a Paragon can drastically reduce the effect of conditions such as burning as can condition transfer spells.

*edit* D'oh Mind Blast/Burn confusion

The Great Al · Oct 07, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

well for some reason, Anet has pretty much prevented that. Why should we expect any different? Burning has nothing to do with mind blast - you're thinking of the similar non-elite that only gives the energy gain if the target is on fire.

The Great Al · Oct 07, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

and honestly, burning lasts for such a little time that for the most part theres no reason to cure it, just hit them with a healing breeze

Vladmir Mironov · Oct 07, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

How badly? I'd say it would be nerfed enough just to make it useless, maybe?

Evilsod · Oct 08, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

I'm with Red Locust... its nothing special. Do the maths. At lvl16 Fire Magic it'll probably do 63 damage and regain 9 energy.

Big whoop, you do mediocre damage. Have to continually use it on low energy targets, normally been higher AL targets just to have a chance of it activating the energy gain. You gain a huge 4 energy after paying for the spell itself.

The recharge could maybe be increased to 5 seconds (who the hell would cast it every 2 seconds?) but the energy gain needs a serious buff to be useful. I really can't see this skill replacing Elemental Attunement or Starburst. 4 energy every 3 seconds inc. cast time may sound good, but how many times would you have to cast it to cover for a 25e Rodgorts Invocation + a 10e Fireball?

Elruid · Oct 08, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Well, like I said somewhere, some real people should do the math.
I just used it with Glowing gaze which returns 8 energy if the target is burning. Besides, yeah, it's nothing spectacular anyway and because Symbol has proven my math wrong this skill seems like a total waste now.
Even though at 16 Fire it's 63 damage for 10 energy regain.
Guess it means yet another worthless elite to be added to the list of already terrible elementalist skills. Big sigh.

At least we know now so nobody goes capping it, eh?

Grammar · Oct 08, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I guess I don't understand the point of debating over this skill.

First of all, it's a single-target skill, so it should be disregarded right off the bat for PvE play.
Second of all, its damage output isn't high enough for PvP spiking and its condition isn't stable/consistent enough for PvP pressure.

This skill ends up in the same catagory as post-nerf Mind Burn.
Intriguing, maybe even a little tempting; but ultimately worthless once you really think about it.

Yanman.be · Oct 08, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Zomg yo use it on boonprots!

The Great Al · Oct 08, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I still don't see how it's useless...i think at 16 fire you get back 10 energy...so for an almost-spammable spell that gives back 5 energy every time you cast it...just that alone is almost worth it! If you cast fire attunement first, you'll be getting back 6-7 energy each time. The damage is just a bonus. It's a great energy management spell, that doesnt care about strip enchants (Which is pretty much a first), if it's interrupted it recharges in 2 seconds, and does damage too.

Phades · Oct 08, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

I still don't see how it's useless...i think at 16 fire you get back 10 energy...so for an almost-spammable spell that gives back 5 energy every time you cast it...just that alone is almost worth it! If you cast fire attunement first, you'll be getting back 6-7 energy each time. The damage is just a bonus. It's a great energy management spell, that doesnt care about strip enchants (Which is pretty much a first), if it's interrupted it recharges in 2 seconds, and does damage too.

In the end its an eliete essence strike. If it didnt have an eliete tag, it would be far more interesting.

Symbol · Oct 08, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

It's not a bad skill. You can mind blast people, throw out an aegis or extinguish whenever you need to, and then go back to mind blasting to regain your energy. The biggest problem with mind blast is not the skill itself, it's that the skills you want to use with it (glowing gaze, immolate, etc) are pretty mediocre. In particular if they buffed immolate a bit it could be a great template.

Ensign · Oct 08, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Mind Blast is ok. It is at least a functional energy elite that works in-line with casting damage spells, instead of having to have some separate functionality. It is both helped and held back by how back Fire Magic is. Helped, in that spamming this thing is almost welcome, because you'd otherwise have a lot of downtime. 63 damage isn't amazing but it's acceptable given that it's also your emanagement. Hurt, in that when you're not casting that you're left with a bunch of unexciting options of what to do with that energy. Prodigy lets you power out good skills of your choice, this gives you energy on a character that really only supports mediocre to poor spells.

The "Sooper Nuker!!!" types will want to stick to Elemental Attunement because this isn't a "huge nuke", and it has poor synergy with "huge nukes". I don't understand why you would run Star Burst over this, but I've always thought that skill was a terrible Elementalist elite. In the only place I've found it effective at all, HA, it felt like I was reveling in how bad everyone was - my opponents, my team, and myself. It's a bit better than Flame Burst, but come on. Mind Blast isn't exactly a powerhouse elite, but at least it's competitive emanagement and relatively flexible.

Peace,
-CxE

Thom Bangalter · Oct 08, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Mind Blast is ok. It is at least a functional energy elite that works in-line with casting damage spells, instead of having to have some separate functionality. It is both helped and held back by how back Fire Magic is. Helped, in that spamming this thing is almost welcome, because you'd otherwise have a lot of downtime. 63 damage isn't amazing but it's acceptable given that it's also your emanagement. Hurt, in that when you're not casting that you're left with a bunch of unexciting options of what to do with that energy. Prodigy lets you power out good skills of your choice, this gives you energy on a character that really only supports mediocre to poor spells.

The "Sooper Nuker!!!" types will want to stick to Elemental Attunement because this isn't a "huge nuke", and it has poor synergy with "huge nukes". I don't understand why you would run Star Burst over this, but I've always thought that skill was a terrible Elementalist elite. In the only place I've found it effective at all, HA, it felt like I was reveling in how bad everyone was - my opponents, my team, and myself. It's a bit better than Flame Burst, but come on. Mind Blast isn't exactly a powerhouse elite, but at least it's competitive emanagement and relatively flexible.

Peace,
-CxE

Starburst is bad for various reasons, but pyromancy is good in HA simply for the fact that there are altars with tons of people on them and meteor shower is rather effective there. Since you have to run an elite somewhere, and fire is kinda low on good spammable skills, you're left with starburst as one of the only options. Since starburst synergizes so well with channelling, and channelling is the king of HA energy management, you're left with starburst as the must have elite in HA. However, with mind blast, it opens up a lot of oppurtunities to play fire magic in various enviornments. since mind blast synergizes well with fire attunement, you're able to run the spammable skills fire does have, primarily immolate which can be quite devastating if you have the energy to keep it up.

Of course, you could already run various builds with fire/earth splashes that were effective in HA, but no one did that because it's hard to pug for a warder running fireball. I'm starting to see that thing in gvg, just because meteor shower is so strong in vod (as we learned from you ensign) but there's little utility in the fire line, and people are stuck with fire as the "sooper nuker" build which will never, ever work. However, I am interested in a fire ele with prodigy, fireball, immolate, and then the usual monk secondary utility, with a meteor shower tucked away to blow up the flagstand when the time comes. Fire might not work well vs actual players, but against AI it continues to be strong.

Phades · Oct 09, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

since mind blast synergizes well with fire attunement, you're able to run the spammable skills fire does have, primarily immolate which can be quite devastating if you have the energy to keep it up.

First off, i dont see how keeping up casting immolate is difficult since its only 10e and recycles every 5s, which means just using that one skill does not run at a very high energy defecit with no energy management what so ever. Secondly, even dipping into illusion magic for conjure phantasm gets more "bang" for the energy. Still, getting away from that cross comparison, you are still spending your energy better for the cost and the time with just slinging fireball instead of immolate and you get the bonus possibility of striking more than one target for free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

but there's little utility in the fire line, and people are stuck with fire as the "sooper nuker" build which will never, ever work.

At least anet is starting to look into the possibility for utility cross overs with examples like steam. However, they need to not be steaming piles of, er, you get the idea.

Longasc · Oct 09, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Mind Blast is really not nerfworthy.

Dual Attunements or Glyph of Energy provide better Energy Management for what you want to do in PvE:

Using those big expensive AoE spells.

While those suck more and more vs. Level 28 mobs, all our damage is elemental and mostly does not ignore armor, it is still what Elementalists do most of the time in PvE.

I would really regret if they nerf it, as I see it as one of the few Elementalist Elites that might get used. Spam it like Flare and gain some energy, but it is really not that efficient...

Quote:

This skill ends up in the same catagory as post-nerf Mind Burn.
Intriguing, maybe even a little tempting; but ultimately worthless once you really think about it.

I fear the same.

Kassad · Oct 09, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Theres no need to nerf a pethetic skill, its already nerfed, being elite. If they nerf this in anyway, im sure there going to nerf mending too!