Curse

Dutch Masterr · Dec 01, 2006, 01:45 PM // 13:45

this is one thing that really gets to me....if a necro is going to play as a mm, it is a MUST that they are self sufficient. since all mm use blood of the master/vertas sacrifice, it has to be required that they can heal themselves so they dont kill themselves....ive played with all sorts of mm ranging from n/me to n/r to even n/e...each of these players spam BoTM and VS nonstop and then yell and yell at the monk for healing...waste of the monks energy. kind of selfish if you think about it. i never allow any mm in my groups unless they are n/mo...heal area, kairels healing circle, and healing breeze are a must to keep themselves and their minions alive...unless they know what theyare doing and use some kind of death/blood build to keep them alive well enough, anything besides n/mo just isnt practcal.

Kitiara Alatus · Dec 01, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Well... yeah. Any MM who is new to the build / concept, or who is new to the game, etc. etc. (list any circumstances there ;P) is going to be a "little" stupid about the optimum way to play the idea.

I mean-- well, for example, people spamming VS. Its bugged, and someone who hasn't taken the time to look within the community to see / get ideas for what works, and what doesn't work, is going to be a sad example of how to play the class.

Then again, there are always people who are just downright stupid--
I've had the "joy" of partying with a N/Me who "usually plays SS but im going MM an im not going to change to /Mo so just STFU." Quite disturbing, to be honest. ;p

Coming from someone who plays N/* and Mo/* on a pretty regular basis (though I am by NO means claiming that I know a whole lot on Monks, I've done a lot more with Necromancers), it is completely aggravating to go through a mission as a monk, with a Necromancer who refuses to listen to reason as far as tweaking his/her build is concerned.

Such is life.

...Getting back to my point...

I would have to agree that if someone is intending on using BoTM with a full set of minions, it would be most appropriate to take a nice self-heal from the /Mo side of things. (I just like not saccing for a heal <.<)

I usually (with the advent of Nightfall ;D) have the MMs I allow into the party to Ctrl + Click their skill bar, as that way I can at least attempt to ask them why they would stay away from /Mo, and even possibly introduce the idea to them that yes, healing oneself while saccing can have added benefits-- like the monk not going crazy, and the MM not dying and wondering why.

DidiMeow · Dec 01, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Taste of Pain, Taste of Death, Soul Feast, and maybe Signet of Lost Souls if you really go easy on the sacrifices will all work as effective self-healing skills without any points put into a third attribute.

If you've got a good momentum going it's not that important to waste time and energy healing minions. There will be corpses-of-plenty to exploit in most missions and explorable areas, you just have to be judicious in using Blood of the Master and Verata's Sacrifice and not just mash the buttons whenever they are available for great mashing.

Why are you using Heal Area and Karei's after the AI updates?

Emik · Dec 01, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Stating a MM NEEDS to be N/Mo is as pointless as trying to go melee fighting with a monk

<rant>
Newsflash: A good MM DOES NOT NEED TO BE MONK SECONDARY
</rant>

Sorry but if you dare posting this then you've just failed as a MM
End of story

Poison Ivy · Dec 01, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

No wonder people hench PvE...

Pick Me · Dec 01, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Yes, self-heal is a must, but then again, is it really a waste of monk resources? I mean, the Necro is healing minions to keep the rest of the party from dying. So the more targets available, the less the monk has to heal party members.

Besides, if the Necro dies, then the undead attack those closest to them, which could mean the rest of the party.

Still, what on earth is the MM carrying anyway????

Animate Bone Fiend
Animate Bone Horror
Animate Vampiric Horror
Animate Bone Minions
Animate Flesh Golem (e)
Blood Of The Master
Verata's Sacrifice
Rez Signet

This must be what they were running right? Sad.

Heal Area, Blood Renewal (3 in Blood magic still is okay, if you have runes, even better). They just have to learn how to manage their health. Besides, at least Vampiric Horrors can heal the necro abit.

In short, I agree with the OP, all necromancers (new and experienced), MUST bring something to heal themselves. The only problem I see is people can do math very well, and sacrifice themselves a bit too much for their heals to kick in.

Scourgey · Dec 01, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Basically what the OP is saying, some PUGs are worthless in groups.

Good players can make use of any character class in almost any team.

Bale_Shadowscar · Dec 01, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Hi, Welcome to Guild wars.

So, you want to be a Necromancer eh? Good choice. OK, lets form a group. Oh wait, you're not an SS or an MM? cya then *kicks*.
Oh you're back again? as an MM this time? Well, change to monk secondary then. btw, your skillbar must be the one that the GW community deems as the correct one. No room for individuality I'm afraid.

Pick Me · Dec 01, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bale_Shadowscar

Hi, Welcome to Guild wars.

So, you want to be a Necromancer eh? Good choice. OK, lets form a group. Oh wait, you're not an SS or an MM? cya then *kicks*.
Oh you're back again? as an MM this time? Well, change to monk secondary then. btw, your skillbar must be the one that the GW community deems as the correct one. No room for individuality I'm afraid.

That's not entirely true. In PvE individuality is tollerable, upto a point. Sadly, not everyone is open minded, so a Mo/W melee warrior is not acceptable, but a N/x MM is.

I'm a N/Me and I do MM just fine. I don't change my 2ndary profession to suite a "well established" mould. I don't need a monk to heal me (unless I get spiked).

I like Necros that are wells and pure damage. MMing, SS, hexers are all good, but too many of them around.

Hella Good · Dec 01, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

It has been said 1000 times before MM= Fiends + BoTM. That's ALL there is. I hate to break it to those of you who haven't realized this simple truth.

As for the claim that MM= N/Mo... please... I've only played a Necro since GW was released. 3 chapters later I have never run a MM as a N/Mo, unless I was planning on capping a Mo elite that is. Dark Bond does a whole lot more to keep you alive at no or very few points in Blood than Heal Area ever will. Worst case scenario you can use ToD, but I haven't had that on my MM skill bar in what seems like eternity.

Now learn to play a MM and stop trolling the forums with noobfest posts.

Kusandaa · Dec 01, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

I MM as N/Any; N/Mo when I know I will have to be self-sufficient (especially 5-man farming, which is something I do often) or will need to keep my minions alive over an extended periods of time. I know when to stop saccing to keep myself alive, and that usually does it.

3 minions (fleshy, vamps, fiends), Soul Feast, Dark Bond, Res and something else depending on situation (Putrid Explosion, Death Nova, ToD...). Never been told that I was a bad MM.

Turbobusa · Dec 01, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

fiends, BotM, blood renewal, aura of the lich.

you'll love it.

killerareso · Dec 01, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

i totaly disagree. i done alot of mm and im n/me. Never changed to n/mo

the reason is that if you n/mo you will prob bring heal area.. but guess what if your controlling 10 minions its rly hard to put them in the area to heal.

So i just run animated bone fiend and golem (and sometimes another minion). i take arcane echo for fast fiend spamming. Or for flesh golem (i sacrifise him to heal myself and bring him up again)
or you could use arcane for vere'ta's sacrifice.

But when doing b/p party's.. all i do is spamming minions. i dont have time to heal them :P

Cathode_Reborn · Dec 02, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

i never allow any mm in my groups unless they are n/mo...heal area, kairels healing circle, and healing breeze are a must to keep themselves and their minions alive...unless they know what theyare doing and use some kind of death/blood build to keep them alive well enough, anything besides n/mo just isnt practcal.

Not sure what to say, but I'll start by saying that it sounds like someone's very new to MM'ing. Isn't the average MM great? Always N/mo, flesh golem....he knows no other healing besides Heal area and the softcore regen of Healing breeze. Heal area is overrated....actually the whole N/mo mm is. Since when were all 10 minions always bunched up to all to be affected by heal area? Ok sure, they do bunch up, that is untill the middle of a battle when minions are being raised all over the place........won't do much then, now will it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

if a necro is going to play as a mm, it is a MUST that they are self sufficient. since all mm use blood of the master/vertas sacrifice, it has to be required that they can heal themselves so they dont kill themselves....

Verata's sacrifice? I'm not even gonna say anything

Hopefully you'll learn sooner or later.

I've ran into a few people like you in pve.....There's only 1 way to mm, it's N/mo with Flesh golem or your build is inferior. So wrong, and so sad that every MM continues to run this old and......outdated build. If the average mm would bother to try other elites, they'd realize that there's tons of ways to do it that don't involve being a N/mo.

Aura of the lich: when controlling 10 minions on my nec and use BotM, I sac about 120hp. When usin this nice little elite, it turns into a mere 30hp.....Looks like I'll dump out the monk side for self-healing since Blood renewal will do it perfectly fine. Sure degen will get to me, but I got infuse condition for that, and plenty of slots open for hex removal if needed.

Jagged Bones: This and Taste of death = infinite 400hp+ heals for only 10energy? And energy gain if my soul-reaping is above 10? Guess I'll be running 16 death and 14 soul reaping, since there's absolutely no reason to put points into other areas for self-healing.

Sorry but, I eat N/mo MM's for breakfast in pvp

. Heal area or Healing breeze won't save you from my blood or ranger spikes. I take lots of joy in hunting these "easy-target" MM's cause they've never heard of 2 skills called dark bond or taste of death.

So you've tried N/me, N/r, etcetc......now learn to try N alone. It's superior most of the time

Zamochit · Dec 02, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Agree with Cathone. Monk secondary for MM is pointless. 16 death 12 soul reaping I throw the rest in blood. I usually use an ele secondary for the sole purpose glyph of lesser energy (no attribute) that helps you out even further with energy management. Dark bond, taste of death,infuse condition. Your monk wont even notice your there half the time.

Cherng Butter · Dec 02, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I run a N/D. Self-healing is great, but durability is even better (dark bond, conviction). Tahlkora will heal my sacs with ease, and most of the time my Vital Boon + Sig of Pious Light combo is sitting idle. Better to run soul reaping high to keep the minions coming (14 soul reaping w/ reapers mark, hehe). Once I cap Order of Undeath I might need to up my earth prayers a little bit (only running 6), but that's ok. Healing breeze and Verata's are crap anyway.

Besides, tanking Scree after you get overrun is always fun. Can you do that with heal area?

Tsunami Rain · Dec 02, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Hm. I recall closing a thread just like this awhile ago. It said basicly the same thing. And it was also ranting just like this. closed.

I suggest that instead of ranting about other mm's you should post a mm guide instead. Much more constructive.