Curse

Dr Strangelove · Nov 20, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Been toying around with this in PvP:

Mo/A

12+1 Divine Favor
12+3+1 Protection Prayers
3 Shadow Arts

Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Zealous Benediction
Protective Spirit/Spirit Bond (I prefer prot spirit, it lasts a lot longer)
Dismiss Condition
Remove Hex/Smite Hex/Contemplation of Purity
Return
Dark Escape

Weapon set 1: Crippling sword of enchanting, energy +5, and 20/20 protective icon
-this is your standard set that you'll have up most of the time
Weapon set 2: Protection wand with 20% recharge mod and 20/20 icon
-Use this set whenever you need to wand things, e.g. monks with reversal of fortune up or displacement spirits.
Weapon set 3: Crippling sword of enchanting, energy -5 damage +15% always, and shield with +30 health -5 physical 20% chance.
-This is your low energy set, use it to hide your energy from esurge/eburn or to remove malaise and wither.
Weapon Set 4: Wand and focus with +15 energy, -1 regen.
-This is your low energy set, useful for emergency energy to keep you alive and kicking. Try your hardest not to die with this set up, as you'll have a lot less energy available when you rez.

Execution:

This is a pretty standard prot build with zealous benediction thrown in to bring allies low on health back to full. Make sure to use it on allies below 50% or the 10e cost will start to hurt fast.

I prefer prot spirit of spirit bond, but it's all up to taste. Prot spirit has a nice long duration that gives it a sort of "fire and forget" feeling, but spirit bond can pay off big time if you catch a spike with it.

Hex removal sucks with this build, and you'd really be better off if someone else would do it for you. In arena situations though, you're usually the only one, so remove hex unfortunately has to do. CoP would be nice if you find yourself continually getting owned by hexes.

I prefer return/dark escape, but I've used shadow of haste/viper's defense before. Shadow of haste requires a lot more active work in positioning and kiting, which I tend to not pay attention to when being beaten up. If you're better at kiting, take shadow of haste, else just stick with return and dark escape.

Happy Healing!

moko · Nov 20, 2006, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Holy Veil as Hex Removal
Gift of Health for Guardian

-> http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...8&postcount=10

pre veiling yourself is kind of a must

also, enchanting sword? nah, +5 armor, should be a healing anhk with 10/20 (cast of spells; recharge of heal)

other sets are okay.

and spirit bond really owns prot spirit :P

Dr Strangelove · Nov 20, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Damn, I completely forgot about gift of health. I tend to use prot spirit not because it's really a better spell, but because I have the reflexes of a sloth on vicodin. I tend to fire off spirit bond on the wrong target, and with it's short duration I end up not getting much mileage out of it. But hey, if you can do it, more power to ya.

As for guardian, dropping it makes me a bit nervous, what with all the sins in RA. Maybe go Mo/W with deadly riposte and shield bash instead?

XvArchonvX · Nov 20, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I submitted a similar variation to Guild Wiki, but they didn't like it. In the discussion area they suggested a Mo/W build instead. Personally, I had a LOT more success with the origional Mo/A build than the suggested one, but meh.

Build:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Mo/A_Zealous_Escaper

Discussion:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build_t...ealous_Escaper

moko · Nov 20, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

As for guardian, dropping it makes me a bit nervous, what with all the sins in RA. Maybe go Mo/W with deadly riposte and shield bash instead?

no. learn to use Return and Dark Escape from the start; not when your about to die. use it nonstop if possible (obviously not if it isnt needed) and sins shall not be a big problem.

plus Guardian would mess you over rather than help; lots of RaOs around lately.

XvArchonvX: Gift of Health is a must. also, its smart not to have too many points in Divine Favor, so ZB will have a bigger chance of giving you back Energy. (i think it only does if the target foe was below 50% health after the DF bonus.)

though, they probably didnt approve it because you said it was for HA and GvG (who cares anyways?); this build is designed for Arenas, its dominating there. Blight owns it anywhere else.

and Shield Bash = failure. Disciplined Stance, Balanced Stance, Riposte and Deadly Riposte would probably be better options - /E works as well, with Armor of Eearth, Stoneflesh Aura, Magnetic Aura and Wards, or Dervish secondary, for Earth or Wind Prayers (see the thread made my Arkantos), or even Paragorn secondary with defensive shouts..but imo, Assasin remains superior. dont listen to what they say, /A > all

XvArchonvX · Nov 20, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

XvArchonvX: Gift of Health is a must. also, its smart not to have too many points in Divine Favor, so ZB will have a bigger chance of giving you back Energy. (i think it only does if the target foe was below 50% health after the DF bonus.)

What would you suggest I drop in favor of GoH?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

though, they probably didnt approve it because you said it was for HA and GvG (who cares anyways?); this build is designed for Arenas, its dominating there. Blight owns it anywhere else.

Funny thing is I only suggested the build for RA/TA/AB, but two people who reviewed it started going off about how they didn't think it would be chosen for the Winter Tournament. I noted that I had never tried it in HA or GvG and asked if anyone knew how well it would do there, but never intended the build for that use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

and Shield Bash = failure. Disciplined Stance, Balanced Stance, Riposte and Deadly Riposte would probably be better options - /E works as well, with Armor of Eearth, Stoneflesh Aura, Magnetic Aura and Wards, or Dervish secondary, for Earth or Wind Prayers (see the thread made my Arkantos), or even Paragorn secondary with defensive shouts..but imo, Assasin remains superior. dont listen to what they say, /A > all

yea, /A seems has been the most effective self defense for a monk for me out of all I have tried.

moko · Nov 20, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

either RoF or Devotion for GoH.

i tried the build with higher DF and using Devotion, and less DF with higher Shadow and RoF; i like RoF more.

personal preference, i guess.

ump · Nov 22, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I personally like:

1) Reversal of Fortune - spike healing
2) Shield of Absorption - pressure protection
3) Gift of Health - pressure healing
4) Zealous Benediction - energy efficient healing
5) Dismiss Condition - condition removal
6) Holy Veil - hex removal
7) Dark Escape - spike protection
8) Return - pressure protection

However, I only use this in 4v4 where I want to maximize my energy. In 8v8, I usually make one of the following changes:
1) Zealous Benediction->Signet of Devotion and Holy Veil->Blessed Light if I want more flexible removals
2) Zealous Benediction->Signet of Devotion and Dismiss Condition->Restore Condition if I want more efficent condition removal
3) Zealous Benediction->Signet of Devotion and Holy Veil->Divert Hexes if I want more efficient hex removal

Also, Shield of Absorption can also be Protective Spirit or Spirit Bond depending on what the team needs. Yes, all four builds are the same build, but using different elites to be more efficient in whatever I need most.

Edit: By the way, for now, the potential energy efficiency in organized play (greater than RA) is less important when you can put a paragon with Energizing Finale to give you superior energy efficiency. Also, even in RA, I prefer the flexibility of Blessed Light because it frees up more slots in the skill bar instead of being forced to bring another skill for condition removal and another skill for hex removal.

Wilhelm · Nov 23, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

I've been running nearly the same build in alliance battles lately, but with Spirit Bond, (Still great skill), and with a /W secondary. Been switching between Wary Stance, and Deadly Riposte.

Wary is actually a really good way of dealing with shadow stepping sins, and a half ass form of energy managment.

Flashy · Nov 23, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

/A > all - disagree

Sure Return + Dark Escape are ownage, but you can't handle pressure with it. Sure GoH is nice skill to handle pressure, but if 2 targets get attacked you will find out that GoH is a pretty low healing and u wil leventually find out that ure kind of useless as a Mo/A cause its hard to maintain energy (most people don't realize this though and go straight for the Mo/A in 4vs4)...

My comment about the build:

When ZB misses a >50% health u wasted 10 energy and its hard to get back...

Maybe go Mo/Me with instead of Return and Dark Escape you take Channelling and GoH and just keep Guardian... cause Guardian and PS will take care of Assassins or Warriors... you just need to hope you got good players on your team that don't go on their Mo/A and waste time by getting crippled all the time so the other team got more time to focus on you and to kill you off... If they just spread targets and pressure the Mo/A their damage goes down and the monks energy goes down and they will eventually fall... but hell no1 does it... unless ure playing a guild team

moko · Nov 23, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

just play arenas; because you ARE talking UTTER CRAP there.

you think Mo/Mes are better? ROFLMAO! i spike them in one go with Assasin, or own them as Thumper, as Thumpers > Guardian, Guardian will offer you protection yeah but..more likely a free dazed.

and you say GoH isnt enough to handle pressure? well, you got RoF as well; it helps out. you also got condition removal that heals; and if you mess up the ZB <50%, thats your own fault for being a noob.

sorry to be harsh, but its the truth. channeling is USELESS in arenas. Mo/As are currently dominating; play Arenas and see for yourself. or even better, go in as Mo/Me and watch yourself die a lot quicker than you would as /A.

i honestly dont see how Guardian protects you better against anything (with Channeling as crappy energy support) than Dark Escape and Return.

the only place id take a /me secondary over /a is HA, and im not even sure about that.

ive seen too many /Me in Team Arenas, who we teamed up with; "yeah im /me, my build works anyways, youll see" -> monk is dead after about 30 seconds, killed by a single thumper, then ragequits. and the funny thing is; most of those are Fierce Gladiators with R3-5 usually.

to sum it up; mes secondary is for people that suck at managing their energy and like to commit suicide.

also, PS wont take care of Warriors, neither of Assasins; only if you get yourself on low hp with a superior rune, which sucks. just go with Spirit Bond, its better.

theres only one advantage i see for Arenas..being Mantra of Flame, but Searing Flames is easy to counter anyways, and you dont see it often; so..

Flashy · Nov 23, 2006, 10:52 AM // 10:52

1st of all I look at commant respectable, I don't care if some1 is harsh to me...

Mo/Me that die in 30 secs sucks yeah, most know not to put Guardian up agaist thumpers(Irri Blow)

Also I didn't say Mo/Me > Mo/A... In my eyes their both equal, I just only said the weakness of a Mo/A that a Mo/Me could handle better... Rof against pressure, real nice it heals degen.I agree.

and you are talking about a 1 hit, pressure is constant

constant damage and you need to constant GoH and RoF around with maybe a pressure caster on yourself...

I can also say: 1 Grenths Dervish and your pressure maintaining is gone, just like u said 1 thumper and I would be dead... 1 D/W with Melandru and Wild Blow, bye bye cripple bye bye Dark Escape and Gee Gee Dervish...

I agree Mo/A are superb in TA/RA but only because of the facts the all people attack them, with a good party by my side as a Mo/Me I wouldn't even bother the thumper cause he would be disturbed by one of my party members or just DP his pet...

To get 1 thing straight before you say: I'm not a noob monk if I need help from party members, its what this entire game is about, teamwork and tactic...

moko · Nov 23, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashy

Mo/Me that die in 30 secs sucks yeah, most know not to put Guardian up agaist thumpers(Irri Blow)

the funny thing is; most dont.

Quote:

Also I didn't say Mo/Me > Mo/A... In my eyes their both equal, I just only said the weakness of a Mo/A that a Mo/Me could handle better... Rof against pressure, real nice it heals degen.I agree.

of course RoF wont help against degen, but there will still be melee attacks that RoF can outdamage, for the rest GoH is enough, and if not you STILL got ZB left.

Quote:

and you are talking about a 1 hit, pressure is constant

constant damage and you need to constant GoH and RoF around with maybe a pressure caster on yourself...

Spirit Bond on squishy target being pressured my heavy melee/ele damage, GoH for the other, ZB for emergencies and yourself, RoF if your bored..i see no problem. i use it all day, i can usually stand a constant pressure (last time it was a shock assasin on me, a spirit spammer and a blood necro with pretty nice damage) and we lasted for about 7 minutes until i ended in a chain from Wanderlust and Shock KDs. and yes, we were constantly being attacked by full spirits = nice pressure.

Quote:

I can also say: 1 Grenths Dervish and your pressure maintaining is gone, just like u said 1 thumper and I would be dead... 1 D/W with Melandru and Wild Blow, bye bye cripple bye bye Dark Escape and Gee Gee Dervish...

okay, ill just reply to this with my last comment; tho, i didnt get one part, a Derv with Grenth and Melandrus?;s

Quote:

I agree Mo/A are superb in TA/RA but only because of the facts the all people attack them, with a good party by my side as a Mo/Me I wouldn't even bother the thumper cause he would be disturbed by one of my party members or just DP his pet...

i attack them as well on certain melee chars; i know how to catch them. RaOs have speedboosts, Assasins have shadow step..etc.

Quote:

To get 1 thing straight before you say: I'm not a noob monk if I need help from party members, its what this entire game is about, teamwork and tactic...

you might not be a noob monk, but it seems to me that you are lacking of experience in the Arenas.

and yeah, teamwork, you said it..so back to the Dervish...a guildy will notice me being in trouble by that Dervish so..anti melee on him and its a gg? we usually run a Reapers Mark Nec, and he goes for the melee hunting me, so that problem is out of the world as well. yeah, teamwork IDD.

not gonna argue anymore, i know /A is superior, from experience off playing both and seeing other people - no contest for Arenas. use whatever floats your boat; but dont complain if you get slaughtered.

bca242 · Nov 23, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

I use this build all the time in ABs but I use SoA and Signet of Devotion. To me Gift of Health is a bit pointless since Zealous Benedictions real strength is being able to go full prot and still have heals. Signet of Devotion is a staple to me, I love free heals so very much ^-^

SoA is one of the best protection skills in the game, with Prot Spirit and SoA on me I can tank atleast 3 Warriors/Assassins easily without running out of energy.

Prot Spirit > Spirit Bond :P

Edit: Mo/A > Mo/Me for PvP, Mo/Me > Mo/A for PvE

Chewbacca Defense · Nov 23, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

I concur about the Mo/A, had more success with Mo/A post nightfall than with the Mo/Me. Thought these builds would run into energy problems, but so far there hasn't been much.

I've found Dark Escape + Shadow of Haste as a pretty good combo. It's great to lure the opposition astray and get back to the backline to support the team.

Chewbacca Defense · Nov 23, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

While we're discussing Mo/Me and Mo/A, anyone try out Mo/D as ZB or Blight with Vital Boon + Conviction?

My experiences has been Mo/A still easier to play, though Vital Boon brings a great self-heal + protection. Still need more time playing Mo/D to give it some real criticism. Anyone have much experience with it?

moko · Nov 23, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewbacca Defense

While we're discussing Mo/Me and Mo/A, anyone try out Mo/D as ZB or Blight with Vital Boon + Conviction?

My experiences has been Mo/A still easier to play, though Vital Boon brings a great self-heal + protection. Still need more time playing Mo/D to give it some real criticism. Anyone have much experience with it?

all answers to your questions can be found here, topic about Mo/D Blight.

Quote:

To me Gift of Health is a bit pointless since Zealous Benedictions real strength is being able to go full prot and still have heals.

the reason people use GoH is that ZB has a pretty high recharge; and you have to wait for your teams to drop below 50%, so lets say theres one below 50 and another one at < 50..youll want to use GoH on the first and ZB on the other. Devotion wouldnt help a lot there.

SoA is indeed a really nice skill; but i found that i rather evade Warriors and Assasins than tank them; so i still use Spirit Bond for casters, especially SF as example. suppose it works really nice in AB due to damage being split a lot and mostly noobs playing etc..D:

Quote:

Edit: Mo/A > Mo/Me for PvP, Mo/Me > Mo/A for PvE

PVE is cake enough, you hardly need any secondary skills there. ;P

anyways..i wanna bring up a new topic now. lowering DF to boost Shadow Arts. i run 7 DF/8 Shadow, it has the great advantage that Dark Escape is really long, its a short time between Returns and Dark Escape running out where you cant use either; but you lower the DF bonus..though, with bigger Divine Favor, the chance is higher that you wont get the energy bonus from ZB, because you only gain energy after the DF bonus was triggered. - so, what do people think about it?

or do they stick to low Shadow/high DF?

jesh · Nov 23, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Personally I use 8 Shadow and 14 DF. That's because I don't bother with Gift of Health.

I don't know about anyone else here, but when I see the enemy monk isn't a Mo/A, I breath a huge sigh of relief. Easy kill. =D

Flashy · Nov 24, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Well to get 1 thing straight I got enough TA experience and AB Experience...

and yes I play Mo/A alot, I play Mo/D alot and I play Mo/Me alot and to be honest it all relies on the enemy party and on your party... if you face 2 thumpers and I play Mo/Me then its Gee Gee energy management... if i play Mo/A I think Gee Gee cripple + DE... when I play Mo/D I think Gee Gee Veil of Thorns + Vital Boon Gee Gee lets run around and let them waste my time...

When I face 3 casters and I play Mo/Me I think, lets run in and make channelling a usefull skill, when I play Mo/A I think: Gee Gee Dark Escape but it last for 6 seconds and after that I can have alot of trouble (yes we still got SB) anyways if you get KDed its kinda shit... when I play Mo/D I think Gee Gee Vital Boon...

When I face anti-monk mesmer and I play Mo/Me I think: Gee Gee I can atleast maintain my energy good with concentrated weapon swapping and I can remove some hexes... When I play Mo/A I think: shit 2 useless skills on my bar against those mesmers(unless they use damage interrupting) and I need to rely on weapon swapping but can't handle pressure anymore... when I paly Mo/D I think Gee Gee still got Vital Boon so I can concentrate on my teammates...

What I mean with the Grenth and Melandru's, these are both forms that can be kind of shitty, Grenths removes enchantments with each attack skill used, and melandru's form makes you invulnerable to all conditions (and then you say I lack on experience, no discussion though)...

And 1 final reason I play Mo/Me in TA... its the best training for if you use Mo/Me in GvG and you need to split...

end discussion, no hard feelings

we all got good arguments

stueyman2099 · Nov 24, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

as ump mentioned, Shield of Absorption is good to have. Actualy, if you have protection prayers and you don't have shield of absorption, please slap yourself, that skill is too good.