Curse

jesh · Nov 19, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Hi elementalist people. I'm running a pretty standard build at the moment, and was wondering about maybe if I should switch elements. What I use for pve is this.

10+1+1 Air Magic
11+1 Energy Storage
10 Healing

Blinding Flash
Enervating Charge/Gale
Air Attunement
Glyph of Sacrifice
Res Chant
Elemental Attunement {E}
Heal Party
Lightning Orb

I find that since I haven't capped Ether Prodigy yet, Heal Party really drains me, so I'll take Gale there instead, or something else like Windborn Speed or Chain Lightning. I'm really close to capping Ether Prodigy, so I was wondering if I should make the switch to Fire Magic. Thing is, I can't for the life of me see how the efficient damage of Fireball makes up blind, weakness, anti kiting skills, etc.. I find playing an air elementalist to be definitely comparable to a monk in terms of support, and I'm not sure I could justify the switch to fire. I know Ensign and Lightning Hell will use fire ele builds, but I don't think I've seen anything like that specified. *hint hint*

Can someone explain to me why you'd want to run fire?

LightningHell · Nov 20, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Hi elementalist people. I'm running a pretty standard build at the moment, and was wondering about maybe if I should switch elements. What I use for pve is this.

10+1+1 Air Magic
11+1 Energy Storage
10 Healing

Blinding Flash
Enervating Charge/Gale
Air Attunement
Glyph of Sacrifice
Res Chant
Elemental Attunement {E}
Heal Party
Lightning Orb

I find that since I haven't capped Ether Prodigy yet, Heal Party really drains me, so I'll take Gale there instead, or something else like Windborn Speed or Chain Lightning. I'm really close to capping Ether Prodigy, so I was wondering if I should make the switch to Fire Magic. Thing is, I can't for the life of me see how the efficient damage of Fireball makes up blind, weakness, anti kiting skills, etc.. I find playing an air elementalist to be definitely comparable to a monk in terms of support, and I'm not sure I could justify the switch to fire. I know Ensign and Lightning Hell will use fire ele builds, but I don't think I've seen anything like that specified. *hint hint*

Can someone explain to me why you'd want to run fire?

When I play a Fire elementalist, I really miss the utility of Blinding Flash, Windborne Speed and Gale. So, when I "play" fire, I usually play part-Air part-Fire.

For example, something like this;

Elementalist/Monk
Energy Storage: 8 +1
Air Magic: 9 +1
Fire Magic: 10 +1 +1
Healing Prayers: 9

Blinding Flash
Fireball
Gale/Windborne Speed
Heal Party
Ether Prodigy
Meteor Shower
Glyph of Sacrifice
Resurrection Chant

In short, I don't think switching to Fire is worth it, but Fireball is quite a bit better than Lightning Orb, and Meteor Shower has knockdowns...

Thom Bangalter · Nov 20, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Dual attunement air spiker was always decent at dealing out direct damage on a target, but it usually brought the big 3 of air magic damage spells: orb, strike, and charge. I reccomend capping prodigy asap for fueling party though, because then you're more useful than a warrior, whereas before you were taken because people didn't know a warrior would be better in that roll.

When I play fire, I just go straight up searing flames+glowing gaze+liquid flame. No utility because I'm actually doing damage for once. You could probably squeeze in an extinguish, but I like to run GoLE and Glyph of Sacrifice+rez chant, so my bar is tight. You could drop either glyph of liquid flame for something like draw, heal party, or extinguish...I just haven't cared to yet.

Dr Strangelove · Nov 20, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36

In random arena, I would run away from ether prodigy as fast as I could. It tends to make you a bit more squishy than I find entirely comfortable. On your build, I would probably throw in aura of restoration as a cover for your attunements and drop HP entirely. Without ether prodigy there's not a lot of point in it anyway.

I find lightning javelin to be much better than strike. The 2 second recharge lets you throw out quite a few more of them, while inconveniencing attacking physicals you were too lazy to blind. You'll have to be in line of site to use orb anyway, so why not use javelin?

In PvE I run something like this for dual attunements:

E/me
16 Air
13 ES

Lightning Javeling
Lightning Orb
Blinding Flash
Epidemic
Aura of Restoration
Air Attunement
Elemental Attunement
Rez siggy

For RA, I would toss epidemic for enervating charge or gale. For high end PvP, just run an ether prodigy guy.

If you run fire, it seems to me like you should commit to it and just run searing flames. Fireball is nicer than orb, but the fire line has so little utility there's not that much point in speccing it if you don't plan to run a damage build.

jesh · Nov 20, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

When I play a Fire elementalist, I really miss the utility of Blinding Flash, Windborne Speed and Gale. So, when I "play" fire, I usually play part-Air part-Fire.

For example, something like this;

Haha thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know. Do you actually run that build because you like the extra fire stuff, or is just what you take so that your party thinks you're a "nuker"?

Anyways I capped Prodigy today but haven't had a chance to try it out. I think I'll throw out Orb entirely and just use all utility..

Res Chant
Glyph of Sacrifice
Gale
Blinding Flash
Enervating Charge
Windborn Speed
Heal Party
Ether Prodigy {E}

Or maybe throw out Enervating.. I don't know, I find it hard to use that skill. Even though I know it causes weakness, I just have the urge to throw blind on top. Then there's no need for it. *shrug*

:EDIT:

What do you guys think of Blinding Surge as an elite for this type of role? Worth it? I like the idea of using Epidemic, though that would mean throwing away my sexy res. T.T

LightningHell · Nov 20, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Haha thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know. Do you actually run that build because you like the extra fire stuff, or is just what you take so that your party thinks you're a "nuker"?

Anyways I capped Prodigy today but haven't had a chance to try it out. I think I'll throw out Orb entirely and just use all utility..

Res Chant
Glyph of Sacrifice
Gale
Blinding Flash
Enervating Charge
Windborn Speed
Heal Party
Ether Prodigy {E}

Or maybe throw out Enervating.. I don't know, I find it hard to use that skill. Even though I know it causes weakness, I just have the urge to throw blind on top. Then there's no need for it. *shrug*

:EDIT:

What do you guys think of Blinding Surge as an elite for this type of role? Worth it? I like the idea of using Epidemic, though that would mean throwing away my sexy res. T.T

Yup, you can throw away Enervating.

Your build is largely alright.

Blinding Surge is, IMO, more suited to characters that don't need their Elite slot. Elementalists can be built to accomodate such a requirement, however, they lose Heal Party. When I go into PvE, I can carry just Ether Prodigy and Heal Party and be perfectly content.

And yes, I carry Fireball so people think I'm nuking - or if there's just so many monsters clogged together it's a waste not to use Fireball.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 20, 2006, 11:11 AM // 11:11

E/me is garbage. Pretty much everywhere these days.

Dr Strangelove · Nov 20, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

E/me is garbage. Pretty much everywhere these days.

While I'll agree with you that the typical echo nuker is trash, skill like epidemic and auspicious incantation are certainly very useful when used in the right situation.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 20, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

where, may I ask, are these skills good?

A_Muppet · Nov 20, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Simple. Against a group, so do immolate on soemone or mark of rodegert and a fire spell, then follow it up with endemic. Mass burny.

Dr Strangelove · Nov 20, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

where, may I ask, are these skills good?

Blinding flash isn't quite as hot as it is in PvE because you don't have one or two bloodthirsty warriors with excellent skillbars raging in your face, you have 10 warriors with substandard bars. Blinding one enemy out of a mob isn't going to have THAT much of an effect on their damage output. So, simple solution, make them all blind and you've got a defense against physicals more effective than aegis or ward vs. melee.

Auspicious incantation is one of the most powerful non-elite energy management skills. When used on a 25 energy spell, you'll pretty much get a full energy recharge. If the extra recharge time bothers you, bring glyph of renewal (which has many oter uses).

As for mass burning, I have no idea why you'd bother with anything but searing flames. Spreading a condition that only last for 3 seconds anyway seems pointless.

LightningHell · Nov 21, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Auspicious Incantation is trash. You have energy...and nothing to use it on. Plus I don't really fancy my E-Management having a one-minute recharge.

In high-level areas, usually there are only a few physicals (like, 3, max?) in a group. Not ten.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 21, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

The only places I can think of with a lot of phsyical are those scarab guys. and they all have frenzy, so they go down in two hits.

jesh · Nov 21, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

I think in Tyria there are a lot more places with more physicals.. well.. maybe not. What about on the docks mission? It's crawling with dervishes, paragons and warriors. That's the only time I like Enervating, when there are just tons of enemies that I could never possibly blind.

Anyways thanks so much for all the responses guys, you rock.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 21, 2006, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Muppet

Simple. Against a group, so do immolate on soemone or mark of rodegert and a fire spell, then follow it up with endemic. Mass burny.

Lightning already went over auspicious, so I'll adress this: Searing flames is going to be infinitely more efficient than running epidemic.

Also, you lose the best hard rez in the game.

On the docks mission, I'm pretty sure I ran what lightning had posted. It's still saved on my template as "The only nuker I ever loved" because before searing flames, it was.

Dr Strangelove · Nov 21, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Double post action...

Dr Strangelove · Nov 21, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I genuinely can't believe you are arguing that AoE blind is not better than single target blind. In almost every zone in Factions and Prophecies (I haven't been far in Nightfall) there are at bare minimum, 3 physicals, and usually more. A normal flasher can only keep 2 targets consistently blind. You blind one, wait 5 seconds, then blind the other, then wait 5 more seconds. Blind only lasts 10 seconds, so by now you have to reblind your first target.

Auspicious incantation is effective on renewal nukers. Before you flame the crap out of me for saying renewal nukers suck (They do in most areas, 5 second cast for an AoE DoT is just too slow) they do have a role. They are an integral part of the most common build for The Deep, and people often request them for FoW. It's effective non-elite energy management, which there aren't a heck of a lot of options for. The most effective one, glyph of lesser energy, isn't really an option because it doesn't work with glyph of renewal.

To the OP:
Your build looks good, although I would toss windborne speed for storm djinn's haste if you need a speed boost. The only real purpose for enervating is to cover blind, so if that's not a big issue, forget about it. Blinding surge is nice if you don't have much else to do besides blinding, but usually it's nice to have some more utility on your bar.

Francis Crawford · Nov 21, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Muppet

Simple. Against a group, so do immolate on soemone or mark of rodegert and a fire spell, then follow it up with endemic. Mass burny.

Just how many seconds of mass burning is that?

pingu666 · Nov 21, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

isnt the area of effect for mark of rodegert and epidemic similer?
gonna see if i have /me unlocked on my ele for blind+epidemic fun

LightningHell · Nov 21, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I genuinely can't believe you are arguing that AoE blind is not better than single target blind. In almost every zone in Factions and Prophecies (I haven't been far in Nightfall) there are at bare minimum, 3 physicals, and usually more. A normal flasher can only keep 2 targets consistently blind. You blind one, wait 5 seconds, then blind the other, then wait 5 more seconds. Blind only lasts 10 seconds, so by now you have to reblind your first target.

We are not arguing that single target blind is better than multi-target blind. However, putting E/Me means losing so much /Mo stuff that I ask myself, why not just run a Me/E and get the same results and more?

Quote:

Auspicious incantation is effective on renewal nukers. Before you flame the crap out of me for saying renewal nukers suck (They do in most areas, 5 second cast for an AoE DoT is just too slow) they do have a role. They are an integral part of the most common build for The Deep, and people often request them for FoW. It's effective non-elite energy management, which there aren't a heck of a lot of options for. The most effective one, glyph of lesser energy, isn't really an option because it doesn't work with glyph of renewal.

I'd say, go with other non-elite Energy management. For example, Power Drain.

Quote:

To the OP:
Your build looks good, although I would toss windborne speed for storm djinn's haste if you need a speed boost. The only real purpose for enervating is to cover blind, so if that's not a big issue, forget about it. Blinding surge is nice if you don't have much else to do besides blinding, but usually it's nice to have some more utility on your bar.

I would stick Windborne Haste on it simply because you can apply it on another ally. Frequently you don't need the speed boost, but somebody else needs one.

And to your last comment, you don't sound like you've played an Elementalist in a GvG.

My finger's stuck on the Heal Party button all the time. One of the prime reasons to run an Elementalist, IMO, is for the Heal Party spam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

isnt the area of effect for mark of rodegert and epidemic similer?
gonna see if i have /me unlocked on my ele for blind+epidemic fun

3 seconds of epidemic fun, you mean.