Curse

Sir Mad · Aug 16, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Just compare the damage you deal with your warrior, and the damage dealt by your elementalist. This thread doesn't even talk about AoE spells, or when it does it's just to say they're energy consuming (which is exactly why most of the AoE eles bring one energy management skill). Sorry but this is dumb. Yeah a warrior may deal more damage than a flare spammer. But what about an echo nuker?

So yeah, his opinion matters.

Hidden in the Mist · Aug 16, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Sorry but in reality, My opinion > your opinion.

Try reading this: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=113319 to know why Warriors > Elementalists.

bakabum · Aug 16, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

There shouldnt even be an argument. A warrior at 16 axe mastery swinging without using any skills has higher DPS than an Air Ele spamming lighting orb and lighting strike in succesion.

For those of you who couldnt bother to read Ensign's article (the one hidden linked to) the basic premise of the article is.

An elementalist has to spend *twice* his natural energy regeneration *just to be as effective as a warrior doing nothing

Gorebrex · Aug 16, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakabum

There shouldnt even be an argument. A warrior at 16 axe mastery swinging without using any skills has higher DPS than an Air Ele spamming lighting orb and lighting strike in succesion.

For those of you who couldnt bother to read Ensign's article (the one hidden linked to) the basic premise of the article is.

An elementalist has to spend *twice* his natural energy regeneration *just to be as effective as a warrior doing nothing

Was partied with an E/W yesterday, he didnt do too well. My E/Mo had to rez him a fair amount. Of course, Im in mountains now, so its fire with rez as my only monk skill. Might take a heal, but IDK...

Xpl0iter · Aug 16, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistical miss

You are most obviously a fire ele all the way ?
Your rodgorts invocation might deal 20-29 on dorian, but my obsidian flame still deals 119, my lightning orb still does 78 and burning still gives him mass degeneration.

Not really, no.
I have tried every element out there, also different builds along with secondary profession combinations. Even with ele/mes degen with slow down hexes IN PVE. Works for me. Kindly do not come up with any assumptions just because i am using an example.
A simple FOC nuker does more damage, a mesmer with backfire is more dangerous to that foe.
We on the other hand, encounter exhaustion. Let me paste this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Earth is just wards. All of the offensive skills in the line are bad - I don't want to hear about Obsidian Flame, you need to Glyph that thing to make it any good and then you don't have any emanagement in your build. All of the wards are good situationally, though melee and stability are the best in general. I don't think a super-long duration on a ward is really key though, battles move too much and you really just want to be able to put wards in the right place at the right time. Permanent ward isn't the worst thing but it really feels counterproductive outside of halls, people have to move to do their jobs and putting a leash on your team is just weak. Move the ward, not the players. I'm a big fan of the 7 spec, 14 second breakpoint.

The link to above quote is:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistical miss

Eviscerate might do mass dmg in your mind, but its more easily countered than most ele damage. Blind, clumsinesslike skills, ripostes, stances, interrupts, weakness, running skills. While the only thing that stops the elementalist from causing damage is a well placed interrupt. (and dodging missile spells)

Um, wait, hrm. Um, which guild wars u playing? am just lost.... Well placed interupt?
most skills are freakin 2 seconds cast. 2 seconds, eternity. Missiles? Could u kindly bring your missle based lighting orb plz? all i gotta do is watch u cast, press Left straffin or right for 2 sec, and there you go. I just dodged your missle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistical miss

Sure warriors can deal a crapload of damage, but in my opinion it doesn't overpower a good elementalists damage. Especially not in spikes.

Um, not being offensive, you just have no clue.
Read Why Nuking Sucks
BY the way, Lets keep this thread for Mending ONLY purposes.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

Algeron Zolo · Aug 17, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Wow, i am shocked. I cant believe that the GW community has enoguh mending hate to fill three entire pages!! I must alert the media!!

Xpl0iter · Aug 17, 2006, 08:23 AM // 08:23

as i said, elitist have no other stuff left to do.

Poison Ivy · Aug 17, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Because Mending is used by too many wammo leroys. End of story.

Sjeng · Aug 17, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

I like mending. It helped me on a lot of runs and missions.
And yes, with my wammo, who knows hot to play in PUG's unlike many Rambo's out there, but also with my other characters on occasion. My monk uses it sometimes to heal NPC's that need to stay alive but happen to get caught in a mob. When 55 farming I also need it. Sure there are alternative 55 builds, but I'm too lazy to learn em all.
It also works fine on your ranger's pet.
I like the skill. Don't see why people should hate it.

LightningHell · Aug 17, 2006, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Guy's who the hell do you think you are? Telling other ppl what to do with their property, if they want to use mending it's up to them,
It's like me saying that if you have an Assasin go uninstall GW, if you play more than 4 hours a day uninstall, if you have fow armour you play to much uninstall, if you have a million or more in gold you play to much uninstall.

But it's up to you how you play the game, so I don't.
Get it?

Actually, one of those were asking Mystical Mist, who was providing false information.

And no, I don't see how Mending is bad in PvE scenarios. I rather them Mending than charge in, Frenzy, Healsig, then yell at me for rez and /ragequit 3 seconds later. At least Mending delays that for 2 seconds.

Prince Zyphr · Aug 17, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

If you were to do the math Mending--even at max-- will counter --at the highest-- 5-10 dmg. Only situation mending should be applied is 55ing. If the the warrior is to be using frenzy and mending, I don't want to hear him say that he is countering the damage. Sure he's countering 5 of the 25 dmg hes taking from a wand attack, but thats about it. Healing breeze is the same way, except in Flag-running, HB is nothing but a waste of 10 energy every 2 seconds that all noob monks use thinking it is a solid heal. Only time mending can really be of use is lower lvl PvE. That's about it. In PvP--just no. Not even healing breeze is used by all flag runners. Health Regen just doesn't cut it to be of any worth -except 55ing.

The Warrior Offensive/Defensive disscusion: Not only do Wars have the highest DPS rate, but in all PvP situations they are actually defensive. IF they did not have such high armor rating, they would'nt be able to run through the other teams backline like they do --Some wars a bit to far back,overextention FTL.

Please kids don't overextended, without saying that its actually pushing up, but you forgot to tell everybody sou your practically in their base while everyone is still at the flag-stand, then you die and yell at everyone for not pushing up *cough*

yesitsrob · Aug 17, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

This thread is pretty pointless. I'm just seeing arguments of what a job of a warrior is.

For your typical cookie cutter build in PVE, warriors will tank as opposed to deal damage - because quite frankly it's the easiest way to get through pve. Not necesarilly the fastest, but most guarenteed and fool-proof for pick ups. Fastest way, well I'd probably assume it would be with a lot of warriors, backed up with an order/dark fury and a monk or two... or something like that.

Obviously in PVP warriors don't tank, I say obviously but some people clearly don't seem to get the abundently clear fact that warriors are the best damage output in the game. That's fine, but if you're arguing that eles can do more damage than a warrior you are wrong, and that's a fact, not an opinion

Now that aside, no matter what way you look at it, in PVE, and in PVP - mending is 3 pips of healing at 8 healing prayers, at the cost of 1 energy pip - now I can't think of many situations in pve or pvp where that would be useful.

And it's hated because it's commonly associated with very very poor warriors

Mesmer in Need · Aug 17, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

ok people you caught me. no i dont pvp much. atleast not with my war. and my respone is totaly based opon my experiences as a pve'er. when i do play pvp though i DONT USE MENDING. this is from my experience as playing as my mesmer. i know that any war in pvp wil get murdered by a mes if they use any typr of enchantment. A mesmer is the ultimant unenchanter. so there. quit ragging on me about mending in pvp!

glountz · Aug 17, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Pros
- Mending is really useful in 55 monking (the most used farming build).
- Mending is really useful for running.
- Mending is useful for enchantment removal free soloing.
- Mending has interesting AI priority effects, see this at http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Mending
Cons
-Mending is useless in PVP.
-Mending is useless in most situations in PVE (the team-based ones) but as well as healing signet is rarely useful in PVE also, the -40 armor will hurt when you tank.
-Personally, I sometimes use Mending or Succor as a whammo on my two monks while I run an adrenalin full Battle Rage build, which is effective in PVE (not in PVP).
The way you use Mending is the most important. Saying mending is crap or using mending is crap is bullshit. Saying mending is uber and you will own with it is also bullshit.

This debate is old and now sterile.

LouAl · Aug 17, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

wow, there are some major elitists in here...

Here is the real issue

Mending Doesn't Suck (in and of itself). It is a good skill in many situations (NOT all situations).
What sucks is when people use it thinking that it is super cool, and that it will usually save them from certain death. It is a big investment of attribute points with a fairly small return (2-8 hlth per second). Most people use it at 3 pips right? Why not use no att points and use watchful instead (2 pips)? You would be gaining 8 lvls worth of att points and only losing 2 health per second. Watchful Spirit is much better IMO for crappy, sustainable healing. You could dump the extra att points into weap mastery, tactics, strength...

Seriously, 6 health per second is not really all that useful when compared to other skills. If you are concerned about degen take something like...Mend Ailment, Remove hex, reverse hex, shatter hex, smite hex, inspired hex, purge signet, antidote signet, purge conditions...If you are concerned with your monk not being able to keep up with healing, then bring succor and put it on both of them (you don't need energy anyway right?).

I really think that the investment in mending (energy and att points) would be better served in another attribute line. You could always bring Watch Yourself, I will survive, Dolyaks, etc instead to offset more lost health than mending would.

As far as what warriors are useful for, those of you pointing at the Why Nuking Sucks article are being misleading. This thread is not only for PvP, that thread was only for PvP. I would rather have 1 warrior (providing that s/he can hold aggro) and 3 elementalists than 4 warriors in a FoW group. The reason? Warriors are single target attackers (generally) and elementalists are multiple target attackers (generally). I have found that a good set of ele's can drop most FoW groups in a few seconds, where it takes a good set of warriors a few seconds per enemy (this is not always the case, but with a good group this is more normal IMO).

As far as PvP is concerned, it is much more difficult for an ele to match the damage output of a war because PvP teams are, generally, not as stupid as AI in PvE. PvP teams don't, usually, all attack the first enemy that comes in range and keep attacking that one regardless of what else may be going on around them (unless there is AoE scatter of course).

Oh yeah, and Warriors spec for tank, runner, dmg, whatever they want. So can Elementalists.

Side note: I deleted both my ele and my war because I thought they were too boring for me, so take all my comments with that in mind.

Trylo · Aug 17, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

i hav esometimes used mending on my war, but found it useless in RoF, and, obviously, pvp.

Try out Life Sheath with a watch yourself tactics heavy build,

Watch Yourself!
Life Sheath
Shielding Hands/Stance
Mend Ailment/Heal Sig
-adrenal-/Heal Sig
-adrenal-/Stance
-adrenal-
Rebirth (NO RESSURECT!)

I gaurentee that if you are not facing an enemy with multiple ench. this will always work to negate A LOT of damage. even at a lower protection level these 2 skills help a lot, more than mending will.

there are always better alternatives to mending... you just have to find them...

Ever tried empathetic removal for your degen troubles...?
It not only helps out the war, BUT actually can help out your teammates!

Xpl0iter · Aug 17, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

Because Mending is used by too many wammo leroys. End of story.

For a story to end, you need it to begin first. In your Post, i see none.
Just becuase a skill nills degen to some extent, i find it very useful. Your post was just play dumb. Using general number of warriors to judge a skill is outright stupid.

LouAl, Totaly agreed.

majoho · Aug 18, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

It's good for farming, not good for regular use.

Samuel Dravis · Aug 18, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

When I'm bonding I may (though not always, depends on where I am) bring mending and watchful spirit. 6 regen is nothing to sneer at, especially with damage being 1/4 of actual. Mending just on a heal spiker is crap though; it just interferes with what you actually should be doing.

Voltar · Aug 18, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

it's good for what it's good for.

when i run 3-man farming (warrior with 2 monks triple-logged) i tend to have the (monk-only) 4 point mending with succor and watchful spirit (as well as 7 other maintained enchants including live vicariously cast by the warrior)

mending's kinda cool for some running things though the -1e regen kinda blows the sprint/charge chaining. generally it's used mostly for farming (though i have used it with a monk in a couple missions...only when i've been farming and forget to change her toolbar before entering).

it's also pretty crucial in any 55 build where 8 (with 4 pips) health per second is a big wad of healing.

definitely for pvp and most group pve i prefer live vicariously and cyclone axe or flurry or something (troll unguent when applicable) for self healing.