Curse

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 11, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

I have heard various things about what works with a skill and what doesn't work.

1 in particular has been Barrage+Splintered Weapon(Ritualist/Channeling). The belief is that the skill would only work on 1 arrow in the ENTIRE barrage attack.

I have found this to be a myth. I have PERSONALLY used these 2 skills to dispatch large mobs, and the results are as I always had thought. The splintered effect attack connected as normal and spreaded amongst the mob with the splintering effect on each of the connecting Arrows.

This can also be said to work with Cyclone Axe/Triple Chop+Splintered Weapon. I will post a pic later when I get home for any naysayers in the audience

. These are just a couple of examples of a ritualist secondary in use.

I would like people to not just bring into conversation the things we all know about,but things you have been told that don't work well together,if not at all. The Barrage+Splintered Weapon scenario was one such thing that was told to me that didn't work like it really does.

We can test these things out as well. Let's see what your secondary can bring to the table

Sir Mad · Nov 11, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Splinter does NOT work with the 2-6 arrows of barrage, just for the 1st one - proof:

I went with 0 in channeling so it adds 5 damage. You can see on the pic only 1 target out of the 2 adjacent targets got splintered - if it worked with both arrows shot, both would have had an extra 5 damage.

XvArchonvX · Nov 11, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Considering the energy you have to spend on casting rit weapon spells and the time you have to stop attacking to cast it, I would have to say that such actions are counter productive. If you want a good ranger secondary:

Monk: Hard rez, condition/hex removal spells for certain situations
Mesmer: Used to be useful for Distortion and Mantra of Resolve, but these really aren't worth using anymore since they've been nerfed. I'm not sure if people still bring Blackout Crip Shots anymore though.
Warrior: Has some excellent IAS skills.
Elementalist: Conjure Frost/Lightning/Flame are really the best options here, but still suffer the weakness of being enchantments.
Assasin: Not really much to support a ranger here
Ritualist: Most skills that would seem to support a ranger don't really flesh out as well in practice as one might think in theory. The rez spell is nice though.
Dervish: I don't know of any advantage of this at the time being
Paragon: Same here

LightningHell · Nov 12, 2006, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Distortion can still be used for Cripshot, but it's icky. 10+1/10/8+1+1/8 (4s Distortion), or 11+1+1/9+1/9+1/6 (3s Distortion).

It's a good question, though, to whether it will actually be comparable to the other /A cripshots.

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 12, 2006, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Sir Mad should Be Sir Insane. You put up a pic that has numbers,but doesn't show the spell effect? Also, if the spread of a the barrage is wide,as the direction you chose to shoot towards, can the effect still be the same?

Let's also assume that the armor rating of each dummy is the same,but distance will make impact damage lessens the farther away the opponent is from the attacker. Wouldn't that equal for the lower damage numbers?

Your picture isn't a solid enough piece of evidence, but it can make an arguement to my initial line of discussion. Also,if the splintered weapon didn't work, where does the -44 at the right of your pic come from?

What hit caused it? Your "proof" is tainted. Try again

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Considering the energy you have to spend on casting rit weapon spells and the time you have to stop attacking to cast it, I would have to say that such actions are counter productive. If you want a good ranger secondary:

Monk: Hard rez, condition/hex removal spells for certain situations
Mesmer: Used to be useful for Distortion and Mantra of Resolve, but these really aren't worth using anymore since they've been nerfed. I'm not sure if people still bring Blackout Crip Shots anymore though.
Warrior: Has some excellent IAS skills.
Elementalist: Conjure Frost/Lightning/Flame are really the best options here, but still suffer the weakness of being enchantments.
Assasin: Not really much to support a ranger here
Ritualist: Most skills that would seem to support a ranger don't really flesh out as well in practice as one might think in theory. The rez spell is nice though.
Dervish: I don't know of any advantage of this at the time being
Paragon: Same here

You have brought up a good point,but that point is mostly by opinion. You "feel" that enchantments from the ele line are not prudent to be used. You "feel" that ritualist skills that are used on weapons are not as useful in practical application.

While the fact is that Preperations may be unremovable,but suffer from lower lengths of time to use the skill in some cases, as well as they take around the same time to apply as a spell to enchant. Ritualist Weapon spells are in the same vein as preperations, not easily removed, but may/may not have the length of time for usage that you may want.

This can be the arguement for EVERY secondary skill. They aren't primarily as useful as Ranger based skills.

So,are you saying that using the secondary is not prudent? Are the only useful secondaries,in your educated opinion, the ones that take off hexes and conditions? That means the only useful secondaries are monk and necro.

If this is how you feel, then congratulations, you have told every other type of ranger that they are insignificant, and their secondaries are useless. This,if it is your opinion, is of course fine for you to feel.

XvArchonvX · Nov 12, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Sir Mad should Be Sir Insane. You put up a pic that has numbers,but doesn't show the spell effect? Also, if the spread of a the barrage is wide,as the direction you chose to shoot towards, can the effect still be the same?

Let's also assume that the armor rating of each dummy is the same,but distance will make impact damage lessens the farther away the opponent is from the attacker. Wouldn't that equal for the lower damage numbers?

Your picture isn't a solid enough piece of evidence, but it can make an arguement to my initial line of discussion. Also,if the splintered weapon didn't work, where does the -44 at the right of your pic come from?

What hit caused it? Your "proof" is tainted. Try again

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wiki

* When used with attacks that hit multiple target, Splinter Weapon only only trigger once. For attacks like Barrage, the first arrow that hits will trigger it. For other attacks like Cyclone Axe where all targets are hit at the same time, it is not clear which attack will trigger it.

* Note that this damage is only dealt to foes adjacent to the target, not to the target itself.

- http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Main_Page

Research > personal attacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

You have brought up a good point,but that point is mostly by opinion. You "feel" that enchantments from the ele line are not prudent to be used. You "feel" that ritualist skills that are used on weapons are not as useful in practical application.

While the fact is that Preperations may be unremovable,but suffer from lower lengths of time to use the skill in some cases, as well as they take around the same time to apply as a spell to enchant. Ritualist Weapon spells are in the same vein as preperations, not easily removed, but may/may not have the length of time for usage that you may want.

This can be the arguement for EVERY secondary skill. They aren't primarily as useful as Ranger based skills.

I don't think you understood me. I was not comparing conjure enchants and rit weapon spells to preparations. The only reason I brought them up was in the context of using barrage, in which preparations not applicable. Without barrage, weapon spells and conjure enchants are simply inferior to preparations. If you want another damage buff besides a prep when dealing damage, let a support character put it on you. Taking time to cast one time use weapon spells and stretching attributes will simply result in inneficiency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

So,are you saying that using the secondary is not prudent? Are the only useful secondaries,in your educated opinion, the ones that take off hexes and conditions? That means the only useful secondaries are monk and necro.

I'm saying that rangers are very self sufficient and secondaries are generally not needed. I'm not saying that using a secondary is "not prudent", but I'm saying it depends on the build and secondary. If you use Barrage, then use a conjure spell (unless you travel with an orders necro of course), if you run a single target damage build or choking gas build, go with warrior for the IAS, if you want more general flexibility or don't find much use of most secondaries, then monk is a safe bet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

If this is how you feel, then congratulations, you have told every other type of ranger that they are insignificant, and their secondaries are useless. This,if it is your opinion, is of course fine for you to feel.

umm, no. Go read my post again. Your simple assumption is flawed.

*edit* I forgot to mention that a R/A dagger build can be really strong when using the strengths of Expertise for energy efficiency and ranger evasive stances for defense.

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 12, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Research > personal attacks.

These are not personal attacks,but facts.You are putting opinions into a factual conversation,my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I don't think you understood me. I was not comparing conjure enchants and rit weapon spells to preparations. The only reason I brought them up was in the context of using barrage, in which preparations not applicable. Without barrage, weapon spells and conjure enchants are simply inferior to preparations. If you want another damage buff besides a prep when dealing damage, let a support character put it on you. Taking time to cast one time use weapon spells and stretching attributes will simply result in inneficiency.

Another opinion. However,a valid one. This still puts all other build combinations in the "Inferior to Useless" category that you have possibly inadvertantly put them in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I'm saying that rangers are very self sufficient and secondaries are generally not needed. I'm not saying that using a secondary is "not prudent", but I'm saying it depends on the build and secondary. If you use Barrage, then use a conjure spell (unless you travel with an orders necro of course), if you run a single target damage build or choking gas build, go with warrior for the IAS, if you want more general flexibility or don't find much use of most secondaries, then monk is a safe bet.

Self sufficiency is what kept rangers out of the major loop. Being self sufficent put them into all ranger groups, and made them where they lacked flexability,due to the refusal of the mainstream ranger player to use their secondaries to be more effective. This is my opinion,not fact. However, the difficulty rangers found in prophecies early times to get into groups that weren't ranger dominant shows that being self sufficient doesn't equal continued or constant success.

As for my assumption being flawed, I only see that you have struck home the fact that you see the use of secondaries on a ranger as near to useless, save for what was previously discussed and what you have brought to our attention in the previous post. That being said,I still feel,in my opinion, that you think that the use of secondaries by a ranger are unneccessary at the most extreme. I chose to agree to disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

*edit* I forgot to mention that a R/A dagger build can be really strong when using the strengths of Expertise for energy efficiency and ranger evasive stances for defense.

On this last statement,I agree totally.

To put things back on topic,I created this thread to discuss the use of secondaries on a ranger.Not specific skills being combined,or if they work or not.

The point of the thread is to discuss secondary profession usefulness. If you want to talk of particular ranger builds that use the secondary profession in an effective manner, by all means do so. Friendly debate is encouraged,as long as it doesn't become a verbal brawl.

If you have no productive or useful information to add,please just read.

Let me add another quick profession combo I have used with my rangers.

[skill=card]Trapper's Focus[/skill][skill=card]Barbed Trap[/skill][skill=card]Dust Trap[/skill][skill=card]Flame Trap[/skill][skill=card]Unseen Fury[/skill][skill=card]Savage Shot[/skill][skill=card]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill=card]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

A build I use with my R/A, once the traps are set off, and the opponent is blinded, I use UF to make my arrow strikes hit more effectively and mix in interupts as needed. When I'm really focused, I use my ranger to hit the blinded opponent while watching for the monk to try to remove the condition,only to quickly switch targets and interupt the monk and turn on the now more accessible soft target.

Sir Mad · Nov 12, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Sir Mad should Be Sir Insane. You put up a pic that has numbers,but doesn't show the spell effect? Also, if the spread of a the barrage is wide,as the direction you chose to shoot towards, can the effect still be the same?

Let's also assume that the armor rating of each dummy is the same,but distance will make impact damage lessens the farther away the opponent is from the attacker. Wouldn't that equal for the lower damage numbers?

Your picture isn't a solid enough piece of evidence, but it can make an arguement to my initial line of discussion. Also,if the splintered weapon didn't work, where does the -44 at the right of your pic come from?

What hit caused it? Your "proof" is tainted. Try again.

Why would I lie about a test everybody can do? I notice you obviously didn't.

Yes I hit 2 targets at the same time - that's how barrage works and do 47 damage on one dummie, 44 on the other one. Yes both have the same armor: just look at where the screenshot was taken. And yes as I said, with 0 in channeling, splinter adds 5 damage to adjacent foes. If it had worked with both arrows then both would have added 5 damage to their adjacent foes (well the one in this case) so we'd have had 2 times 5 damage. But that's not how it works, as you can see in the pic.

Please, next time keep personal attacks away and test the skills you're talking about.

XvArchonvX · Nov 12, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

These are not personal attacks,but facts.You are putting opinions into a factual conversation,my friend.

I have a counter example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Sir Mad should Be Sir Insane.

I'm sure you thought that was cute and all, but calling people names in a debate is still pretty immature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Another opinion. However,a valid one. This still puts all other build combinations in the "Inferior to Useless" category that you have possibly inadvertantly put them in.

No, you missed the point again. I said that it depends on the build. If you run barrage, preparations are useless. If you run normal attack builds, conjure enchants and weapon spells are not efficient and lower the ranger's potential. Neither choice is inferior in itself, but is dependant on the situation. Well, it might be argued that running weapon spells as a ranger is always inneficient, but that does not say that a ritualist secondary brings nothing to the table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Self sufficiency is what kept rangers out of the major loop. Being self sufficent put them into all ranger groups, and made them where they lacked flexability,due to the refusal of the mainstream ranger player to use their secondaries to be more effective. This is my opinion,not fact. However, the difficulty rangers found in prophecies early times to get into groups that weren't ranger dominant shows that being self sufficient doesn't equal continued or constant success.

Rangers didn't have problems finding groups because they were self sufficient. They had trouble finding groups because people generally wanted a monk to heal, a tank to hold aggro, and a nuker to deal mass aoe damage. The fact that a ranger can hold their own does not make a ranger an unsuitable candidate for a party member. If anything, the fact that a ranger would be less reliant and less of a burden on the monk would make them a better choice. Many people, however, did not choose rangers because, with the exception of a barrage build, they are not considered to be one of the strongest damage dealing classes. With all this said, rangers really didn't have that much trouble finding groups. If there was any reason I ever had trouble getting through with mine, it was because there were so many others out there that I had to compete with.

I would also disagree that a ranger does not need a secondary to be effective. Many times a secondary will not even make that ranger more effective to begin with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

As for my assumption being flawed, I only see that you have struck home the fact that you see the use of secondaries on a ranger as near to useless, save for what was previously discussed and what you have brought to our attention in the previous post. That being said,I still feel,in my opinion, that you think that the use of secondaries by a ranger are unneccessary at the most extreme. I chose to agree to disagree.

I would say that a secondary is not always necessary, but not necessarily useless. When you rely too strongly on a secondary, you stretch your attributes thin, therefore the best use of a secondary on most occaisions is that of a support. If you believe that I am trying to say that secondaries are useless because they are situation dependant, then you are entirely mistaken and I would refer you to my first post where I stated some of the best uses of them. The point I did argue against the most was the effectiveness of weapon spells on a ranger.

Snoblind · Nov 14, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Slightly on-topic and something I've been playing with is Mark of Pain... as a R/N.

MoP center bad guy and spam Barrage... if it's not removed the whole mob falls FAST. -24(MoP), -X(dmg), -5(vamp recurve) over all of the affected in the mob... plus the pet triggering it on top of barrage! Reminds me of the good 'ol monk/mes days outside of Harvest Temple.

I'm still tweaking the build, but the "Painful B/P" looks to have potential!

Exa the Pretentious · Nov 14, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

I've always used MoP with barrage, ever since Tombs PvE first opened. And yeah, it's exceedingly effective, especially with other barragers, pets, minions all adding to the fray. It wasn't unusual to see two (or even three!) lines of mop damage filling the screen in the two stairwells before the green-dropping bosses at the end. To top it off, this was before the last AI update, which now prevents the initial scatter from AoE damage... which consequently makes MoP even more powerful than before. Been playing my ranger primary through Nightfall, and it's been consisently powerful there as well, though it can be annoying to chase the initial target once it finally "realizes" it's killing off its group. Since MoP is extraordinarily powerful in barrage/minion/pet situations (the more hits, no matter how weak, the merrier), I've always packed it with my necro as well.

Typically I run the same bar as I do in tombs: Charm and Comfort, MoP, Tiger's/Barrage, Throw Dirt, Dust Trap, Barbed Trap. Since you're running necro second anyway, you can always throw a few spare points in Death and replace one of the traps with Rotting Flesh, which was always one of my favorite spells for pulling mobs with... though at 15 energy, and the 10 for mop, you won't be able to spam Tiger's quite as freely.

Jeff Highwind · Nov 15, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Wouldn't MoP be more suited with stuff like Quick Shot and Called shot? I can see it with Barrage due to 1s recharge, but Quick Shot/Needling Shot would be a bit more devastating.

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 15, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

Why would I lie about a test everybody can do? I notice you obviously didn't.

Yes I hit 2 targets at the same time - that's how barrage works and do 47 damage on one dummie, 44 on the other one. Yes both have the same armor: just look at where the screenshot was taken. And yes as I said, with 0 in channeling, splinter adds 5 damage to adjacent foes. If it had worked with both arrows then both would have added 5 damage to their adjacent foes (well the one in this case) so we'd have had 2 times 5 damage. But that's not how it works, as you can see in the pic.

Please, next time keep personal attacks away and test the skills you're talking about.

I just completed my tests, not even 10 minutes ago,and here are my findings,my esteemed colleague. In the following pictures,it is obvious that the target, is centered, yet the spread of the arrows shot from barrage go toward 3 far spread targets.

Upon impact, the spell effect is upon ALL arrows involved in the initial barrage release. Shall we still continue saying that the two skills do not work? There is your proof!

MoP is used in Ranger spike builds, but in that case, their is usually a necro involved.

[skill=card]Order of Pain[/skill][skill=card]Mark of Pain[/skill][skill=card]Order of the Vampire[/skill]

These are customarily involved in the spike build of a B/P Ranger team, not to mention the Ranger spirits that are used.

[skill=card]Order of Pain[/skill][skill=card]Mark of Pain[/skill][skill=card]Order of the Vampire[/skill][skill=card]Read the Wind[/skill][skill=card]Winnowing[/skill][skill=card]Favorable Winds[/skill]

These are favored in ranger spike builds, however, spike team builds depend on the primary ranger function, and as such, plays to the rangers strengths.

The secondary of a ranger, or a character for that matter, should be able to cover the character's weaknesses.

For example, if a R/W wants to play a melee role, what are his/her options?

We have seen necro skills emerge as a force in the touch ranger build, but that is manipulating the secondary by using a Primary attribute to make a powerful, team oriented character build.

IMHO, rangers are so team oriented that them travelling alone, farming solo, or even not getting involved in team settings would strike me as unnatural and abit odd.

What ranger build,involving the secondary or not, isn't team oriented?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

You attacked the middle target. Barrage hit 3 targets. If it affected all the arrows, you should see 4x "-26", two as the middle target hits all those around it, and one for each of the side targets. You see only 2x "-26", and they are over the side targets. Your splinter affected only the middle target. Methinks you proved yourself wrong...

In the pic marked gw003, the arrows strikes the middle target, yet the arrow on the far left, strikes another dummy as well as the dummy to the right of the middle target.

Upon seeing that, the spell effect has struck the target dummy on the far left, which is neither near the primary target nor even in the range of the spelled arrow in order for it to be considered the natural reaction of said spell.
That being stated, and shown in that pic, how have I proven myself anything but right?

Dr Strangelove · Nov 15, 2006, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

I just completed my tests, not even 10 minutes ago,and here are my findings,my esteemed colleague. In the following pictures,it is obvious that the target, is centered, yet the spread of the arrows shot from barrage go toward 3 far spread targets.

Upon impact, the spell effect is upon ALL arrows involved in the initial barrage release. Shall we still continue saying that the two skills do not work? There is your proof!

You attacked the middle target. Barrage hit 3 targets. If it affected all the arrows, you should see 4x "-26", two as the middle target hits all those around it, and one for each of the side targets. You see only 2x "-26", and they are over the side targets. Your splinter affected only the middle target. Methinks you proved yourself wrong...

Exa the Pretentious · Nov 15, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Highwind

Wouldn't MoP be more suited with stuff like Quick Shot and Called shot? I can see it with Barrage due to 1s recharge, but Quick Shot/Needling Shot would be a bit more devastating.

One of the added beauties of MoP is that you can spread the hex on multiple targets and multiply the damage if you're using Barrage. So, say in Tombs, you have three adjacent grasps (which is not at all unusual) and hex them all separately with MoP; theoretically you'd have three times the fun with just one burst of Barrage... not that you'd ever see enough people carrying MoP to ever see this happen. More importantly, Barrage is more preferably in a team setting because you don't have to call out which target is hexed; your party members (say, in a B/P party) will most likely be automatically hitting it because of the spread fire of Barrage, if the mob is lined up right.

Sir Mad · Nov 15, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

In the pic marked gw003, the arrows strikes the middle target, yet the arrow on the far left, strikes another dummy as well as the dummy to the right of the middle target.

Upon seeing that, the spell effect has struck the target dummy on the far left, which is neither near the primary target nor even in the range of the spelled arrow in order for it to be considered the natural reaction of said spell.
That being stated, and shown in that pic, how have I proven myself anything but right?

You actually don't understand the skill you're talking about. Read again the description of Splinter Weapon: it adds extra damage to ALL THE ADJACENT FOES of your next attack. As explained by Dr Strangelove, here is what it would do if it worked with barrage:

You hit, say, 4 targets with barrage. If you were right, you should see above the targets the following damage:

Target..............................1............. 2.............3.............4
Barrage (random numbers)....44...........47...........43.......... ..40
Splinter on target 1.............0.............26...........26....... .....26
Splinter on target 2.............26............0............26....... .....26
Splinter on target 3.............26............26...........0........ .....26
Splinter on target 4.............26............26...........26....... .....0

On your pic I see only 1 "26 damage" from splinter above every target, when it should be, if you were right, 1 per other arrow of barrage. So no, splinter doesn't work with barrage (as in: with all the arrows of barrage: just with the first one).

XvArchonvX · Nov 15, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

I just completed my tests, not even 10 minutes ago,and here are my findings,my esteemed colleague. In the following pictures,it is obvious that the target, is centered, yet the spread of the arrows shot from barrage go toward 3 far spread targets.

Upon impact, the spell effect is upon ALL arrows involved in the initial barrage release. Shall we still continue saying that the two skills do not work? There is your proof!

What others have been trying to tell you that you have not understood is that since Splinter Weapon does +26 damage to each adjacent foe, each arrow from barrage would do an additional +26 to each target. Instead, there is only one +26 done to each target, even though you theoretically should have had 3 sets of +26 when you hit 3 targets.

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 15, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

You actually don't understand the skill you're talking about. Read again the description of Splinter Shot: it adds extra damage to ALL THE ADJACENT FOES of your next attack. As explained by Dr Strangelove, here is what it would do if it worked with barrage:

You hit, say, 4 targets with barrage. If you were right, you should see above the targets the following damage:

Target..............................1............. 2.............3.............4
Barrage (random numbers)....44...........47...........43.......... ..40
Splinter on target 1.............0.............26...........26....... .....26
Splinter on target 2.............26............0............26....... .....26
Splinter on target 3.............26............26...........0........ .....26
Splinter on target 4.............26............26...........26....... .....0

On your pic I see only 1 "26 damage" from splinter above every target, when it should be, if you were right, 1 per other arrow of barrage. So no, splinter doesn't work with barrage (as in: with all the arrows of barrage: just with the first one).

We are discussing Barrage with Spilintered Weapon...the ritualist skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

What others have been trying to tell you that you have not understood is that since Splinter Weapon does +26 damage to each adjacent foe, each arrow from barrage would do an additional +26 to each target. Instead, there is only one +26 done to each target, even though you theoretically should have had 3 sets of +26 when you hit 3 targets.

I'm tired of arguing a point that you have really refused to see, but I'll try once more.

In pic gw003, the use of Barrage with Splintered Weapon, not splinter shot, is used on the dummy in the very center of the training circle. If I used Barrage, and it only worked on the primary target, the center dummy, then the only place the spell would effect would be next to that same dummy,correct?

Then, if I am wrong, explain the reason that the spell effected the dummy on the outer ring of the training circle? It has the spell effect on it as well as the damage numbers over it.Also, the signs of impact from the arrow are obvious, if not a second number being visible in my picture.

My point is that to the statement that is"Barrage+Splintered Weapon only effects the primary arrow fired(The centered arrow), thus only effecting the center target and those near to that target!", is false.

However, that was not the point of this thread. I wanted to discuss applications of secondaries in the case of rangers. Can we get back to that, and leave this conversation for another thread, like the ones talking about skill combinations that should work, but don't.

Sir Mad · Nov 15, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I was talking about splinter weapon, of course: that was just a lapsus: the description of the skill I gave was the description of splinter weapon. Sorry for the confusion, I'm going to edit my post to fix that.

I've not much to say, if you refuse to be objective and try to understand how the skill works, no one can help you. You've just proven that actually skills affecting the next attack are not necessarilly triggered by the arrow striking your target but by the first arrow striking a target (out of the 6 possible targets).

And please don't ask us not to post you're wrong because it would be off-topic when you keep posting about that as well.

EDIT - Oh and here is another counter-example of the theory "splinter is triggered by all the foes adjacent to a foes hit by one of the arrows of barrage": proof

XvArchonvX · Nov 15, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

*sigh* I think what you have failed to realize is that your pics show that you spent 1 second and 10 energy on a weapon spell that only did +26 damage to 2 targets when barrage hit 3. If you would have used Barrage again, it would take 2 seconds, do more damage, and cost maybe 3 energy, depending on your level of expertise. To apply this to the origional topic at hand, ritualist secondary with weapon spells is simply a bad idea. If you want to use it for the rez or draw spirit, go for it, but don't waste your time with weapon spells.