Curse

ubermancer · Sep 12, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

The skill Awe had been bothering me for a bit, figured out why today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shock

Target touched foe is knocked down and struck for 10...50 lightning damage. This skill has 25% armor penetration and causes exhaustion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awe

Skill. If this skill hits a knocked-down foe, that foe becomes Dazed for 5...13 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia's entry on 'Shock and Awe'

Rapid dominance is a military doctrine that has as its main principles "overwhelming decisive force," "dominant battlefield awareness," "dominant maneuvers," and "spectacular displays of power" (also known as shock and awe) as a means of destroying an adversary's will to fight and adversely affecting the psychology and the will of the enemy to resist. The doctrine was written by Harlan K. Ullman and James. P. Wade and is a product of the National Defense University of the United States. The military operation named "shock and awe" began the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Debate exists as to whether or not this operation actually was a true rapid dominance campaign or truly elicited shock and awe.

draxynnic · Sep 13, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

So you're saying we'll be seeing P/Es (or E/Ps, I s'pose, but I'd do it with the former) using Shock and Awe tactics?

ubermancer · Sep 13, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

So you're saying we'll be seeing P/Es (or E/Ps, I s'pose, but I'd do it with the former) using Shock and Awe tactics?

I would totally be the first to run it, if Shock was ranged. But its not, so no.

draxynnic · Sep 13, 2006, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

I would totally be the first to run it, if Shock was ranged. But its not, so no.

Collaboration between a Paragon and a W/E calling Shock targets?

Siren · Sep 13, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Collaboration between a Paragon and a W/E calling Shock targets?

You got it. "Shock and Awe" was one of the strategies the Nazis used to take over most of Europe. The "Shock and Awe" came from their blitzkrieg of tanks and mortars and so forth, so the Warrior is the tank, and the Paragon is the mortar, which fits perfectly for "Shock and Awe."

Pepsi Jedi · Sep 13, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

lol "Shock and Awe" is a pretty newly coined phrase, coming around about the second GULF war.

What the Nazi's did was different. Some people might reverse call the Nazi's stuff Shock and Awe but it wasn't called that, then. It was the televised attack on Iraq where it became a catch phrase....

Lighten up. Noone's trying to slip Nazi stuff into the game. Geeze.

Blind Rage · Sep 13, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

i did p/e, i could keep an opponent dazed an entire match, i got 2 death threats...

ubermancer · Sep 13, 2006, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepsi Jedi

lol "Shock and Awe" is a pretty newly coined phrase, coming around about the second GULF war.

What the Nazi's did was different. Some people might reverse call the Nazi's stuff Shock and Awe but it wasn't called that, then. It was the televised attack on Iraq where it became a catch phrase....

Lighten up. Noone's trying to slip Nazi stuff into the game. Geeze.

Actually Sun Tzu used a phrase that translates very closely to "shock and awe". That wikipedia entry has a quote of it. Longshot, but if anyone here knows something about archaic Chinese etymology, could you contribute something here?

And you were the only one who was suggesting that they were 'trying to slip nazi stuff into the game'.

And the concept of Blitzkrieg is functionally identical to Shock and Awe, even if its implimentation was much different then it would be now.

Siren · Sep 13, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Actually Sun Tzu used a phrase that translates very closely to "shock and awe". That wikipedia entry has a quote of it. Longshot, but if anyone here knows something about archaic Chinese etymology, could you contribute something here?

And you were the only one who was suggesting that they were 'trying to slip nazi stuff into the game'.

And the concept of Blitzkrieg is functionally identical to Shock and Awe, even if its implimentation was much different then it would be now.

Thank you, ubermancer. ^_^

I'm actually pretty fond of this "Shock and Awe" skill combination easter egg. It has the potential to be devastatingly effective, and since we've seen one or two people already using it and getting cursed out...I can't wait till we see a full Blitzkrieg.

Kais Unduli · Sep 13, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

First on the list of Nightfall skills to be nerfed...

Arkantos · Sep 13, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kais Unduli

First on the list of Nightfall skills to be nerfed...

Awe isn't overpowered?

Yanman.be · Sep 13, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Mind shock and Awe!

Mordakai · Sep 13, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Wouldn't Shove and Awe work the same?

Or almost any hammer attack?

Or Gale and Awe? (even better, cause Gale is ranged, and not Elite like Shove)

Why does it have to be a "Shock and Awe" combo (despite the obvious name attraction).

Dragonious · Sep 13, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Blitzkrieg was a method of shcok and awe BTW

Ullman and Wade argue that there have been military applications that fall within some of the concepts of shock and awe. They enumerate nine examples:

* Overwhelming force: The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy militarily impotent with as few causualities to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible."
* Hiroshima and Nagasaki: The establishment of shock and awe through "instant, nearly incomprehensible levels of massive destruction directed at influencing society writ large, meaning its leadership and public, rather than targeting directly against military or strategic objectives even with relatively few numbers or systems."
* Massive bombardment: Described as the "precise destructive power largely against military targets and related sectors over time."
* Blitzkrieg: The "intent was to apply precise, surgical amounts of tightly focused force to achieve maximum leverage but with total economies of scale."
* Sun Tzu: The "selective, instant decapitation of military or societal targets to achieve shock and awe."
* Haitian example: The "imposing shock and awe through a show of force and indeed through deception, misinformation, and disinformation."
* The Roman legions: "Achieving shock and awe rests in the ability to deter and overpower an adversary through the adversary’s perception and fear of his vulnerability and our own invincibility."
* Decay and default: "The imposition of societal breakdown over a lengthy period, but without the application of massive destruction."
* Royal Canadian Mounted Police: The selective application of force emphasizing "standoff capabilities as opposed to forces in place" to attain military objectives.

Straight from the wiki

Also....awe is NOt overpowered and should only be used by a paragon (leadership). Warriors could'nt do much with this and of course.... condition removals by teammates will falter this skill's effect

Horseman Of War · Sep 13, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

hmmm sorry I cant get down with the Nazi comparisons. Im going to forever hate anyone using a shock/awe combo. Its ruined for me now.

that, and even tho Shock is no small matter in pvp (im so sick of shock warriors) I would personally rather go shove/awe like Mordakai says.
That way I can still spam tactics shouts if I want to.

edit-> maybe they are trying* to get Dazed to be up there with the rest of the conditions. Right now, its hardly an issue in pvp. Dazed condition will be the one to really go red engine on a dervish... I really hardly EVER encounter the dazed condition compared to the rest of them.

ubermancer · Sep 13, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Awe requires a KD - Paragons have no KD skills. Its also primary attribute linked.

And Shove is a poor idea, this requires the Paragon, a midline fighter, to move to the enemies mid or backline. Same reason Shock is a bad idea - use it in a combo, or get a ranged KD.

And you are seriously feeling uncomfortable because of the fact that shock and awe is similar to Nazi tactics? Do you also hate the Iraqi war? (okay, bad example)

How about this, the use of the bomb at the end of WW2 was following the same military line of thought - if we show them that we can easily reduce their country to the worlds largest crater with only a few planes, in a few days, weeks... they will surrender, and ultimately less lives will be lost then if we tried a land invasion? (read the figures on how many lives THAT wouldve cost sometime)

Do you hate their use of the bomb because its similar to the overpowering dominance the Nazi's used against their neighbors? Do you also hate Sun Tzu? Or the Romans? And what for? Because some times the bad guys know how to put up a fight?

Pepsi Jedi · Sep 13, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Hate to break it to you guys but WIKI is written by guys like you and me. It's THEIR words that are put up there. Not some anchient thing.

and no.... I don't personally speak what ever it was that Sun Tzu did, so I can't say if "Shock and Awe" is a direct translation.

But the phrase was used mainly in the second gulf war to discribe our attacks when we went in.

SINCE THEN Wiki has been made.... wiki isn't some long standing ultra perfect thing. It's entry's are written by people all over the world and it's not 10 years old it's what? 2... 3 tops?

Quoting Wiki to me is about like quoting the muppets. Sure.. some of the stuff they say is right, but it's not the word handed down from on high.

Yes. Wiki is pretty cool. Yes most of the information on there is correct. But it's still written by amatures and every day folks that mis quote, add in, and plagerize ALL the time.

You could be right. It could be from Sun. I could be wrong. I just know I went though 15 years of history class and never heard shock and awe till the second gulf war. *chuckels*

As for me saying it's the Nazi thing. No. I was replying to the person that started this post.

It's said waaay up there that the shock and awe bothered them and the nazi's using it was why.

*shrugs* Don't really get it myself, even if it was true, but it was stated that THAT's why he didn't like it.

We're playing a game. "Shock and Awe" is a catch phrase banded about the news shows for years. They wern't channeling any Nazi or Sun Tzu or what ever. They heard a cool phrase and went "Dude, if we name this skill Shock and this one Awe you can do a shock and awe attack"

____________IF_______________

Even that much thought went into it. It could be totally coiencidental. Unrelated entierly.

Kool Pajamas · Sep 13, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Well they already have shock and aftershock so its likely this was done on purpose....

I'm convinced Anet thinks up builds/combos and then creates skills to make those builds/combos.

Siren · Sep 13, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepsi Jedi

Hate to break it to you guys but WIKI is written by guys like you and me. It's THEIR words that are put up there. Not some anchient thing.

I wouldn't go quoting Wiki for research papers, but for the purposes of this discussion, I think it's a fine source to refer to. It's not as if Wiki is entirely unreliable just because of a few twits contributing to it. You can read through Wiki and you're going to find mostly accurate information. I'm pretty well-read and well-studied and I've never found any egregious mistakes in there.

Quote:

Quoting Wiki to me is about like quoting the muppets.

What, so you doubt the military minds of Gonzo and Fozzie Bear? They're absolute beasts on the battlefield.

Quote:

You could be right. It could be from Sun. I could be wrong. I just know I went though 15 years of history class and never heard shock and awe till the second gulf war. *chuckels*

15 years? I've taken a few history courses, but mostly have just read/done research on my own and I've seen "Shock and Awe" in discussions regarding the hard-edge fast-paced overwhelm Blitzkrieg maneuvers in World War II. It most certainly isn't a concept recently introduced. Or a term recently introduced. I was hearing it back in the late 90s, long before Dubya's campaign. lol

Quote:

As for me saying it's the Nazi thing. No. I was replying to the person that started this post.

It's said waaay up there that the shock and awe bothered them and the nazi's using it was why.

*shrugs* Don't really get it myself, even if it was true, but it was stated that THAT's why he didn't like it.

You do realize that "bothered" by something doesn't always mean one doesn't like something, right?

I think it's much more likely--confirmed, actually, when the OP replied--that the OP was bothered by the phrase because it kept reminding him of something but he could never put his finger on it. And then he figured it out, posted it, with the

smiley, which indicates to me he was actually proud he remembered the connection.

There's no dislike going on here at all. I think the general reaction to Shock and Awe being in Guild Wars is pretty positive, actually. It's got a flair to it. It's a cool phrase, like you said. Incidentally...

Quote:

We're playing a game. "Shock and Awe" is a catch phrase banded about the news shows for years. They wern't channeling any Nazi or Sun Tzu or what ever. They heard a cool phrase and went "Dude, if we name this skill Shock and this one Awe you can do a shock and awe attack"

____________IF_______________

Even that much thought went into it. It could be totally coiencidental. Unrelated entierly.

...considering ANet has demonstrated a weird sense of humor, I think it's very likely they introduced Awe for that precise reason: Shock and Awe. Hell, we've got He's On Fire!! from NBA Jam, It's Just A Flesh Wound from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, a Saturday Night Live reference in the form of the cowbell quest in Luxon territory, character dances from Thriller, Pulp Fiction, and Napoleon Dynamite...the list goes on and on.

Horseman Of War · Sep 13, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

you could also use the shout "on your knees" to recharge stances at the same time that you awe them... just a thought...

p/mo

signet of judgement? thats ranged, right?

p/n

weaken knees, soul bind

p/w
could also use "coward" if they are moving, likewise- "none shall pass"
these are shouts so you can use them instantly... on a moving foe that is.

p/e
plenty of choices... personally I dont like to use exhaustion spells.

p/r
a pet skill and spike trap... not too much awe there... added for completion tho..

p/me
not a lot to go with here except for psychic distration+interrupts... unless im missing something.

p/rt
wanderlust- casters hate wanderlust i think...