Curse

Bloodied Blade · Sep 10, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I was sitting around considering spike builds for RA and TA (and reading a thread on a warrior vim build) and thought of this-

12 Dagger Mastery
10 Crit
8 tactics

feel free to use any number of runes for crit/dagger to raise tactics.

1.) Mark of Instability
2.) Black Lotus Strike
3.) Twisting Fangs
4.) Falling Spider
5.) Horns of the Ox
6.) "Victory is Mine!"
7.) Death's Charge***
8.) Res Sig

Basically the idea is to quickly teleport in after MoI, combo, ViM, then get out (if desired).

Possible substitutes for Death's Charge would be Shadow Refuge (use a dagger mask and minor rune so that you can spend the 2pts from dagger on shadow), Dark Escape, and Wild Blow. The list goes on to more exotic things like Impale, but you get the idea.

-Blade

Yanman.be · Sep 10, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Well...You use a nice attack combo. But wasting an elite for just some health and energy? Not worth it.

You don't need energy with that combo, if you run 13+ critical strikes. Shadow refuge will be better IMO. and use another elite ( aod ).

SAPhoenix · Sep 11, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

You could use Moebius Strike as your elite instead of ViM, at least then you'll have a chance to have your dagger skills recharged, especially with the combo you listed. Moebius would mainly be there to counter the horrible recharge of Black Lotus Strike (in PvP, you wouldn't want to wait 25 secs for one skill to recharge). Even better, use Flourish.

Yanman.be · Sep 11, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

If he uses Moebius Strike, he might as well pack Shock instead of death's charge, and there you have it: the perfect Yanssassin!

SAPhoenix · Sep 11, 2006, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Ah I forgot to mention that your build doesn't make provision for a speed-up stance like Dash or Dark Escape, so it might be a bit difficult to get out quickly after taking out your target (Especially since you are using Death's Charge). If you get snared, yeouch!!

AoD might be a better option for that combo then, as you should be able to have enough energy available after activating Mark of Instability to get Black Lotus off. Otherwise, Recall could also work very well and you could still include an elite.

If it must be a warrior elite, Flourish comes HIGHLY recommended. It surpasses ViM in terms of usefulness.

Bloodied Blade · Sep 11, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

@Yanman.be- I personally don't run 13 critical strikes in pvp, just as a general rule. It's one of those things where I never really cared about an extra 1pt of energy and 3% crit outside of a pve farming build (I've never found that it made a difference in killing speed in pvp, so I used it for pve energy management).

@SAPhoenix- Personally I just utterly hate Moebius Strike beyond all logical reason b/c I (as a long-time pvp monk) saw too many holes in its effectiveness.

Normally I would just run GPS, HotO, FS, and TF along with AoD, Shadow Refuge, Dash/Dark Escape/CoP/Plague Touch, and a res sig. My idea with ViM! was that you could use in in RA and TA primarily for just taking out 1-2 key targets in a match that would send the battle in your favor without the need for your monk to worry about your hp.

I'm currently trying to figure out what I would use for an HoH pressure-sin though as my mind is completely drawing a blank (I almost immediately threw GPS combo out the window b/c of enchantment removals, but I'm still considering it).

I'll consider Flourish, but I think in many situations ViM! would surpass it b/c there is no other real 'heal' in the build (death's charge only works if they have more hp, sadly).

SAPhoenix · Sep 11, 2006, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Moebius Strike as a base ganker/AB point capper against npcs/guys that can't outheal the damage from the combo, gg

Moebius Strike against a Boon Prot/CoP monk, not so good

Its all about application and knowing when and where to use it, far from a rubbish elite. If you know who to target with it, you'll reap the benefits.

As for using ViM as a self heal, thats a bit unreliable. You place all conditions on a target only for a monk to remove it all. Or, the target you go after is using Plague Touch to send everything back to you. Not a pretty picture.

ViM better than Flourish on a sin? Not a chance. Flourish isn't situational/conditional, and it refreshes all your attacks. Last thing you want is to wait too long for a combo to recharge while you're under pressure or desperately need to support your team. Or lets say you successfully condition someone and use ViM, getting back some health and energy. Now you're still stuck waiting for your dagger attacks to recharge. I don't see how ViM could possibly be superior to Flourish.

If you plan to run a HoH pressure sin, Flourish would benefit you far more than ViM would. Near constant pressure due to attack recharge every 10 seconds vs conditional self heal? I know which one my money's on.

You have to ask yourself, what is more beneficial. Having a conditional self heal, or being able to refresh your attacks every 10 seconds, guaranteed?

Kais Unduli · Sep 11, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Doesn't Black Lotus Strike have a long recharge time? Flourish would definitely be better suited for this build. Also, in pvp today, Mark of Instability would be removed before you could get your combo together.

Bloodied Blade · Sep 11, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

I'll consider Flourish for the build, which would probably entail me modifying it to "The new Flourish-sin" (not the original Flourish-sin)

1.) Disrupting Stab
2.) Wild Strike/Fox Fangs
3.) Twisting Fangs
4.) Flourish {e} (or AoD, which I think would be better in this build)
5.) Shadow Refuge/Heal Sig (Shadow Refuge if using AoD)
6.) Dash
7.) Signet of Malice
8.) Res Sig

For those that don't know, Sig of Malice removes as many conditions from you as your opponent is suffering. Works wonders as the utility in an AoD sin with GPS > Horns combo.

I chose Dash over Dark Escape because if someone starts to kite me I'd rather be able to stay in range when I hit than to be kited. Another advantage is that Dash surpasses Dodge in speed, which is often used by Touch Rangers to get out of danger (or by many other rangers, just most noticeable on the TR).