Curse

ubermancer · Aug 03, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

GRR! Damn you glitchy forumware. It looked to me like this post hadnt gone through, disregard.

SnipiousMax · Aug 04, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Tykane

Funny how this is not your idea yet I see no credit to the person who gave you the idea.

Let me get this straight. You're accusing him of ripping of this Warrior Primary Hammer build off of a Elementalist primary dagger build?

Shiv Kite · Aug 04, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

whao thats insane well done what attacks did u use>?

ubermancer · Aug 04, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

@Xaero Gouki Kriegor

Sorry, my bad. Had just woken up and clearly my mind was not yet fully engaged.

And you want a screenshot proving I can get by with this concept in RA? Ha! Hell, I was using my Glyph of Essence+Shock+Meteor Shower+Hamstring+Bed of Coals+Warriors Endurance combo in RA effectively!! Even better, I could try it in AB! Simply changing targets often and not becoming too much of a nuisance (up until you spike them down) convinces most people to target someone else.

Ive even had this work [to a degree] on a A/E using Impale, Conjure Flame, Twisting Fangs, and of course Phoenix. That particular build lacks much at the moment though, which just really goes to show that even with a crappy build you can still get some kills and even come out on top if you know what your doing.

@twicky_kid

Took me a moment to see what you were going for, but yes that combo should work too and give you a bit more longterm viability. You would still need to use an IAS, and if you did and used all the skills in proper succession your Auspicious would hit the target >mid cast< of a ROF (assuming thats the first thing they do when they get back on their feet). Even if one of the casters 20% fast casts trigger, youd still be able to hit it mid cast. If both trigger, well... too bad.

But, that is a 4% chance.

I wouldnt rely on Auspicious for energy because there is a decent chance that Crushing+Phoenix will kill many targets. To be honest I like this variant a bit better because it maintains the builds strengths while reducing its weaknesses.

@Sabe

First, even competent monks get killed. You can not say that just because Spirit Bond / Protective Spirit would mitigate alot of this damage that a competent monk would never be killed. Who knows, perhaps the monk has Backfire on him with more cover hexes then he has enchants, maybe hes being e-denied, maybe Prot Spirit was already Diverted, maybe hes taking the bait of a faux spike (or maybe the Warrior is the fake spike) etc...

And the thing with Eviscerate+Phoenix is that it happens FAST (see the picture in my previous post) and thus best when the enemy team will cover your target while he is on the ground negating alot of the KD appeal.

Two Warriors spiking the same target should be able to take him down in under a second (from full health). On the flipside, Frenzy Shock Executioners Eviscerate Phoenix DOES add 118 damage to the spike and due to the increased swing speed can be completed before they get back on their feet. I just tried this in Isle of the Nameless and had the 60AL target so close to dead that I couldnt see its health bar.

Afterthought: Kiting might prevent Phoenix from being fully effective with just Eviscerate. What about Essence, Frenzy+Shock+Eviscerate+Phoenix+Executioners? That gives you the maximum spiking potential by following Eviscerate with Phoenix, while snaring them until after Phoenix is done with its aftercast and 5/18 of a second into Executioners (16/18th being fully completed, the last 11/18ths would allow enough time for a ROF). Of course, Frenzy+Bulls Strike+Eviscerate+Phoenix+Executioners is even better as the enemy couldnt ROF Executioners, but even less reliable.

@Dark Tykane

Funny, I dont see you posting any inventive builds.

I dont try to do things to get people to think of me in better terms - trust me, my perception of self is plenty flattering without that.

Back in the Prophecies Beta I came up with RSpike, even posted about it on the Knights Templar forums (if they keep their archives I can verify that). Now, you hardly see me trying to remind people who play RSpike that they arent being inventive or should give credit to me, do you?

No, because my objective is not to worry about petty things like who did what first. Rather I want to see communities disavow paradigms and instead engage in a rapid, fluid, and progressive process of symbiotic competition.

I am probably telling you more then whats you will care to listen to hear with that, but it does tie into my ultimate ambitions regarding humanity and is important to me (and is why I publically post my best builds, tactics, and even exploits, even if it isnt some place obvious like GWG).

Did I see that post a while back and recognize it as powerful? Yes. Did I have my own ideas about how to use Glyph of Essence to powerful effect? Yes. Did it even cross my mind that this experimentation was the result of someone elses work? No. Did it cross my mind to give credit? No. Do I now feel the need to acknowledge the contribution they made since its been called out? No, Id much rather spend my time making sure people understand why I consider worrying about personal acknowledgment over the progress that was made a low thing.

@Shiv Kite

RTFP (Read The Freakin Post)

--

At all the people who say this build is over powered:

In organized play, its really not. Energy denial, the full range of anti warrior skills, and enemy team cooperation can really render this build unable to deliver. Simple Signet of Weariness would be sufficient to stop a horde of W/E's abusing this as energy is so picky... and even if they did focus swap theyd still have to worry with regaining that energy.

Now, I can see it being devastating in RA, TA, and AB though (assuming high quality teammates for the latter two).

Wait, I forgot this build is shut down by Protective Spirit / Spirit Bond, nevermind..... Wait! Has anyone told the Air spikers about this yet!?

ogami_ito · Aug 04, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

I like this for an Eviserae warrior. But if you are using hammers and KDs, wouldn't a stonesoul strike / holy strike do more damage to a single target for less energy? stonesoul+holy strike = 188 damage against KDed enemy, with 10 energy. Actually, if you want to burn all your energy, you can use several <3/4 sec spells that will exceed the Phoenix damage. Your Glyph+Phoenix = 165 or so health and all your energy (but does AoE and enemy does not have to KDed for it to work)

Question: does getting that damage into 1 less second of attacks make that much difference?

Dark Tykane · Aug 04, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Its just funny when people compare their builds to things I have posted. And nobody claimed you cared about who was first I just say you don't deserve any praise or credit for a build alrieady made. On that forum with the E/A running this concept people even spoke of running this as a warrior with (omg) the exact same build O_O
Quit jumping to conclusions and you would see that none of my posts are flaming as opposed to when I used to flame with each one of my posts. I flame ignorant fags who think I am flaming them...And snapping at me about how you "Don't care" about my criticism or my opinion shows how ignorant you are for thinking I don't have the right to say it or I am unjustified for saying it because you haven't seen any of my creative builds.

Assumptions piss me off and your assumption of me not making creative builds in your post is just another angering piece that makes me feel you're ignorant.

Sabe · Aug 04, 2006, 09:19 AM // 09:19

@ubermancer

Afterthought: Kiting might prevent Phoenix from being fully effective with just Eviscerate. What about Essence, Frenzy+Shock+Eviscerate+Phoenix+Executioners? That gives you the maximum spiking potential by following Eviscerate with Phoenix, while snaring them until after Phoenix is done with its aftercast and 5/18 of a second into Executioners (16/18th being fully completed, the last 11/18ths would allow enough time for a ROF). Of course, Frenzy+Bulls Strike+Eviscerate+Phoenix+Executioners is even better as the enemy couldnt ROF Executioners, but even less reliable.

How much freeking energy do you think a warrior has? You think they can combo frenzy, shock and phoenix in one spike?

I said Prot spirit would negate the dmg assuming that there was no mes to shatter/drain enchant etc. You were talking the build in a one man spike and did not mention other characters being used in a spike. SO AS A ONE MAN SPIKE PROT SPIRIT AFTER EVISCERATE NOT USING SHOCK (which can't be used due to energy probs of phoenix) WOULD NEGATE ALL THE SPIKE DMG. ASK AIR SPIKERS???? WHEN was we talking about air spikers and thats completely different concept.

The Build is Whack!!!!!!! forget it!! Spike once in a game what about when they are res. You have no energy to shock/sprint/frenzy for a while.

Forget my time wasting on this rubbish!

Also talking of monks - most common being boon protector - They will have 80 AL not 60 AL if correctly made.

Dark Tykane · Aug 04, 2006, 09:35 AM // 09:35

The build isn't "whack" sir the build is fun, it makes people mad, and more times than not it will be extremely useful.
Yes it may not be suited for a GvG, Ha, or AB but as an RA build it fits my standards. I know when making a build I usually try to think of every other build that would own me and expect for them to show but who are you kidding doing that? Theres no way to counter every build. With any build you make for RA there are people in there that will either 1. Slaughter you because their build perfectly leaves you useful 2. More than one person will show you up 1v1 you will either lose or barely win 3. You will slaughter someone with either great damage or great shut down.

I recently stopped thinking of what would own my build and I started thinking about the ratios of how many times a thing has happened to me and I put into the 3 rough groups listed above. The ones that are fun while also landing in the third group are great RA builds IMO.
And when you get the enemy callin out your name in veign or spiteful words while they are on the ground its always a plus

Sorry forgot to post the exceptions such as support builds, healers, and spirit spammers.

ubermancer · Aug 04, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabe

How much freeking energy do you think a warrior has?

26.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabe

You think they can combo frenzy, shock and phoenix in one spike?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabe

I said Prot spirit would negate the dmg assuming that there was no mes to shatter/drain enchant etc. You were talking the build in a one man spike and did not mention other characters being used in a spike.

Oh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubermancer

I honestly wouldnt use Executioners (not that I wouldnt bring it, just not use it in the spike), and rely on my team for the rest of the spike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubermancer

Running this in TA I would suggest having a BL monk, the fire W/E, a Prodigy E/Mo with gale and some defensive moves (flash, prot spirit/spirit bond, etc) and another floating spot that I atm have as a Sword W/Rt with Consume Soul. Galing a support character, or shutdown, (like Mesmer, an enemy E/Mo, or secondary Monk) just as your two Warriors close range to their new target (the primary Monk) and unleash their combo. Final Thrust and Lightning Orb should provide enough damage to finish them off.

Look, you cant just assume that there is always a Prot Spirit on everyone. Anyone under focus fire, sure thats a valid assumption in organized PvP. This build however is mostly for RA, where they might not even HAVE a monk, and TA, where ensuring you take down a single target is devastating since the teams are so small. And this build allows you to provide sufficient pressure to a secondary target to make the monk forget about himself just for a second... Wait didnt I post about that too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubermancer

Even competent monks get killed. You can not say that just because Spirit Bond / Protective Spirit would mitigate alot of this damage that a competent monk would never be killed. Who knows, perhaps the monk has Backfire on him with more cover hexes then he has enchants, maybe hes being e-denied, maybe Prot Spirit was already Diverted, maybe hes taking the bait of a faux spike (or maybe the Warrior is the fake spike) etc...

Lets not forget that you can target a single enemy, then when they run by one of their allies to drop aggro due to the variable size of collision boxes you can merely rapidly spike down that target instead! Granted, you cant kill him yourself in 3 seconds, but you can get well over half way there and if your team cant do the rest you probably need to have a talk with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabe

SO AS A ONE MAN SPIKE PROT SPIRIT AFTER EVISCERATE NOT USING SHOCK (which can't be used due to energy probs of phoenix) WOULD NEGATE ALL THE SPIKE DMG.

Dude, you just sound like your on crack.

Shock can NOT be used like a utility interupt - thats true. You need at least 25 energy to be sure you can pull off the spike (unless you use Devastating, Crushing, Auspicious, Phoenix as I am testing now). But Frenzy+Shock+Eviscerate+Phoenix is 25 energy. Sure, you wont have energy if you use Shock before Frenzy, but how hard is it to activate frenzy a second earlier then elsewise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabe

ASK AIR SPIKERS???? WHEN was we talking about air spikers and thats completely different concept.

Your right, applying several triple digit sources of damage to a target in a short period of time is UTTERLY different then what I was talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabe

The Build is Whack!!!!!!! forget it!! Spike once in a game what about when they are res. You have no energy to shock/sprint/frenzy for a while.

Rush. Shock only in part of the main spike, use Bull's on the rest. Use a Zealous axe. I assure you, it works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabe

Also talking of monks - most common being boon protector - They will have 80 AL not 60 AL if correctly made.

My bad. I guess this means that if my build is 'whack' against 80 AL it certainly wont hold up against 100 AL? Especially if I didnt even have time to switch to a sundering or elemental hammer?

Please stop posting stupid, innaccurate things - especially ones which a simple Ctrl+F search would disprove. Please pay extra attention to keeping those kinds of posts out of my threads.

Dark Tykane · Aug 04, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Well ubermancer sorry for pointing out that this wasn't your idea I guess thats what some people would call offensive now which makes no sense to me. Over all though the build does work a good percentage of the time for a RA build and its fun stuff to use thanks for bringing the idea back.

SnipiousMax · Aug 04, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Tykane

On that forum with the E/A running this concept people even spoke of running this as a warrior with (omg) the exact same build O_O

Wrong. One person mentioned Warrior Spike and a build wasn't even listed. I think you're overstepping yourself.

lyra_song · Aug 04, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I really like this build ^^ thanks for letting me bring my W/E a hammer again.

BoondockSaint · Aug 04, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

I cant believe that ppl are giving you such a hard time for a build that is so much fun! Theres room for improvement, which I'm sure you havd done just not posted, Well done. Though I've admired your builds since I read your FOW spider run. I wish I had you talent in creating builds. BTW is there a reason backbreaker would not be a good choice? More adrenaline but a 4 sec knockdown.

ubermancer · Aug 05, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

@SnipiousMax

Dont worry, I think weve all made our intentions clear at this point, no need to further it.

@BoondockSaint

What if it was one man with six guns?

And dont worry, this always happens.

Backbreaker is GREAT fun but I rarely use it due to its high cost, I like to use Devistating inbetween Phoenix spikes. It lets you get off Backbreaker+3 attacks+Phoenix before they get back up. I dont think I need to tell you how much damage that extra hit can generate (100+)

fgarvin · Aug 09, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

...and is why I publically post my best builds, tactics, and even exploits, even if it isnt some place obvious like GWG.

OK, so where's the often promised Mursaat farming build?

(Longtime readers of Ubermancer's posts know what I'm talking about)

Effigy · Aug 09, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Sounds like a solid design. Not sure if I'll end up trying it, but it's very tempting at this point.

2ndName · Aug 09, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Nice build. I have always been a fan of Hammer Warriors. Now, would it be an energy overkill if I am wearing a full Glads armor + Energy armor with a zealous mod on it?

pryzmatik2 · Aug 10, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Tykane

Well ubermancer sorry for pointing out that this wasn't your idea I guess thats what some people would call offensive now which makes no sense to me. Over all though the build does work a good percentage of the time for a RA build and its fun stuff to use thanks for bringing the idea back.

Who cares whether or not you get credit for devising a skillset in a game (Where there is a limited number of skills) anyway, right?

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Aug 10, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

@Xaero Gouki Kriegor

Sorry, my bad. Had just woken up and clearly my mind was not yet fully engaged.

And you want a screenshot proving I can get by with this concept in RA? Ha! Hell, I was using my Glyph of Essence+Shock+Meteor Shower+Hamstring+Bed of Coals+Warriors Endurance combo in RA effectively!! Even better, I could try it in AB! Simply changing targets often and not becoming too much of a nuisance (up until you spike them down) convinces most people to target someone else.

still haven't gotten one either, all i see is health bars of nameless isle dummies

Livingston · Aug 10, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Hell, I was using my Glyph of Essence+Shock+Meteor Shower+Hamstring+Bed of Coals+Warriors Endurance combo in RA effectively!!

I'm having a hard time understanding how this combination would work with 26 energy.

You use Glyph of Essence which takes five energy, that puts you at 21. But you have 15 seconds before you need to MS so you can wait a few secs before starting your combo. So you can wait until your energy is back which takes about 7 seconds with two pips of energy regen. So if you wait for your energy to be full that gives you 8 secs left. You use Shock which takes 5 energy, which puts you back down to 21. Meteor Shower takes 25 energy to cast so you would have to wait about 6 seconds to get the 4 energy back to cast meteor shower right?

If there were some way you could do it without the 6 second wait, which I would love to know how, after the Meteor Shower goes off, you have no energy left. Hamstring takes 10 energy which wouldn't be there and BoC takes 15.

Or is it that you are using them in a different order from what you stated? Maybe with a zealous weapon and using Warriors Endurance early, adding some strikes somewhere into the spike?

Livingston