Curse

Nightwind Of Dwayna · Jul 22, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matsumi

Happy now?

NO, because I don't see ONE FLIPPING MONK SKILL ON THAT LIST!!!

unienaule · Jul 22, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightwind Of Dwayna

NO, because I don't see ONE FLIPPING MONK SKILL ON THAT LIST!!!

Let there be secondaries? And if you say, "but I use that for energy management," I think something along the lines of "having your cake and eating it too" applies. You have to make a choice between defense and either heals or e-management. That's one thing I really like about Guild Wars, no single character can do it all.

Skuld · Jul 22, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightwind Of Dwayna

Hear me now and listen to me later: there should be no build in the game that the ONLY defense a monk has against it is to kite. Shield of Judgement? Doesn't fire. Scourage Sacrifice? Only one skill is a sac, and it's what, a 10% sac? AoE doesn't keep up, and that's if you're trying to keep someone ELSE alive. There is absolutely NO DEFENSE as a monk against this build. I am no noob. I have hundreds of hours in on this game, 500,000+ Balth faction (yeah thats not as 7337 as some, but whatever) , all I play is monks, and I'm telling you one monk can't keep up or even come close. I'm sick of idiots telling me to kite. That should not be my only defense. It's frustrating that every good monk build that has come along has been nerfed to high heaven, but there are 786,487 touch rangers out there and they all operate with impunity and have no fear of getting a nerf. Meanwhile, as soon as I played with AoE the first time I thought to myself "Only seconds until this gets nerfed...", because I'm used to it.

Oh, well, whatever, IWAY didn't bother me so much but I have seen 600 touch rangers in one hour. I'm sick of it. Flame on.

it's a 20% sacrifice and it greatly reduces their healing from having to heal up from smite damage too, making them easier to kill.. ¬¬ Can a monk hold out against a warrior? no. why should you be able to stand there invulnerable?

Raxxman · Jul 22, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Can a monk hold out against a warrior...

yes yes he can. Longer than holding out against a touch ranger, there are hundreds of counters against warriors.

Touch Rangers can destroy nearly every (every?) warrior build, every monk build.

ischuros · Jul 22, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Personally i bring along Wail of Despair(You can get it off the second last mission from the necro boss) to counter TRs. Its really useful to battle all caster classes, casting it on a Mesmer will bring him down instantly.

I am annoined at the OP for his line:

How many of you 12v12 players are sick and tired of these touch rangers?? Personally I don't even do 12v12 anymore so if GW was looking for this to be competitive - they screwed up BIG TIME.

He is basing his opinion that ABs are screwed up because some peopl found a build that works well. Just because you find it bad/unbalanced dosnt mean that everyone else does. ABs are personnaly my favorite part of Factions, and find that whatever build the Luxons have there is a build on my side to counter it.

Curse You · Jul 22, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

I just over-damaged some touch rangers when I fought them in PvP. It's amazing what you can do when you put 3 conditions on them and keep knocking them over. And yes they do use Plague Touch, but just having a monk can solve that.

P.S. I use an assassin build

Alfrond · Jul 22, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I always play a monk in AB and I've got to say, I've never really had that much trouble with touch rangers. I'll admit they are a bit more tricky to deal with than you standard warrior, but kiting does seem to work pretty well. If they can't touch you they can't hurt you. While you are kiting your teammates can take down the touch ranger without a whole lot of trouble.

The milk shake · Jul 22, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

man some of you are idiots, like thinking backwire works vs touch, or vamp touch removes dodge...lol

pigdestroyer · Jul 22, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

use wild blow gg touch rangers...

Raxxman · Jul 22, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

throw dirt...

Ensign · Jul 22, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Touch Rangers take zero skill.

That's really the extent of the problem.

Peace,
-CxE

pigdestroyer · Jul 22, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

throw dirt...

i youre a shock war shock them till the blind wears off.. and use heal sig while their ass is on the ground

at least for me they are an easy kill now, even though most of the time they run

Mera Regila · Jul 22, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

i youre a shock war shock them till the blind wears off.. and use heal sig while their ass is on the ground

at least for me they are an easy kill now, even though most of the time they run

When they do THAT you can sprint+bull's strike them and pwn them. Don't even say they'd use speed stances, because sprint lasts longer than 16 expertise dodge or zoujin's haste.

EDIT: Also, you can't keep them knocked down that long without massive exhaustion energy loss from shock. Shock them and sprint away then if they're still going after you beat the hell out of them when blind wares off, not that hard.

Mera Regila · Jul 22, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by The milk shake

man some of you are idiots, like thinking backwire works vs touch, or vamp touch removes dodge...lol

who's thinking that? I've only said how it didn't work and how funny it was to have them cast it on me to counter.

unholy guardian · Jul 22, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Right now there is a HUGE issue with touch rangers. In my opinion, although it seems not the most talked about issue, is that a class can use a set of skills in everyway better than the primary.

With high expertise the skill vampiric touch, it takes it down to 5 energy. While for the primary necromancer it is still at 15 energy.

Then you look at touch of agony, it’s 5 energy, although it has many drawbacks it can be used by expertise to make the energy cost 2, making spamming these skills and their duplicates very easy when combined with offering of blood. For a primary necromancer though it is quite hard, or for that matter impossible to spam these skills because 15 energy is such a steap cost.

The problem is, the two classes are not simply both using them effectively, which is why there is a huge problem. Ranger have more: armor, energy management, speed boosts, and overall more usage of these skills than any necromancer could wish to have. So I say, level the playing field! Not just for necromancers to have their day, but for everyone, each class should be able to utilize and mesh together to a point.

My recommend skills changes to the touch things.

Vampiric Touch and its clone current – skill – 15 energy ¾ activate and 2 second recharge

Touch of agony and its clone-skill- 5 energy ¾ second activate 3 second recharge

My proposed solution.

Vampiric Touch and its clone new –spell- 5 energy ¾ second cast 2 second recharge.

Touch of agony and its clone-spell- 5 energy ¾ second cast 3 second recharge. If you are above 70% health when cast you gain 3 energy.

Note those are still in touch range. You may be wondering why give 3 conditional energy back, well that way expertise costs would be the same, but just different.

Things don’t have to be nerfed, just changed. Each class can have its benefits now.

Rangers- masters of survival still, can’t seem to kill them, except now they will have to worry about mesmers and other caster hate.

Mesmers – fast casting could be quite possible, and you could take out your fellow touchers too.

Elemantalists- huge energy pool.

Warriors – you were screwed out of these skills a while ago, and you still kinda are, pick up a hammer.

Ritualists – combine these with weapons spells and other cool spirits to make yourself a great defense.

Necromancers – well you have the runes, now you can maximize what you can do with YOUR skills.

Assassins- eh well you have caster regeneration, so you should be able to pull off something, especially if you combine shadow and deadly arts thing.

Monks – well you could steal life from the warrior who just picked up that hammer or something, I don’t know I never played a monk.

I know many of you may be thinking- counter it you sucky person!!!! Or you may be thinking NE NE NE NERFFFFFF

I don’t believe in making skills useless, but this problem could be changed for the better, shake up what is going on before it gets stale.

You may now comment… just try not to eh get mad.

Skuld · Jul 22, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Unrelated: AFI fan? ^^

OMFGimCUTE · Jul 22, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

i have no problems with touch rangers, mesmers rape them

OMFGimCUTE · Jul 22, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

oh and im an AFI fan

Pillz_veritas · Jul 22, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

This would easily lead with touch Necromancers, who can utilize it to its fullest, have additional enery regen and energy. This would be insanely overpowered for them. It is bad with 12 in the atribute... Think about if it was 16.

the natural balancing act between classes is the atribute roof. Touchers cant use the skills as powerfully as Necromancer can with there full attributes.

I give this a sign as long as you reduce the overall effectiveness of the spell by 2 atribute levels. (now atribute lvl 16 will be atribute lvl 14 after change) This would prevent it from being to overpowered.

unholy guardian · Jul 22, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

er sorry no, never heard the music, although i have seen the bands pictures of stuff before

just saw the sign that said "shouts your mouths and open your mind" on the discovery channel watching mythbusters :P