Curse

a cadet · Jan 02, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Flourish is also bad because there really isnt much need for it to begin with. If there were, say, 3-4 good attack skills with recharges of ~20 seconds, it would have a use. But as it is, all the attack skills have recharges of approximately 4, 5 seconds, and since flourish itself takes 1 second to cast, its barely useable. If it would at least take 1/4 seconds to cast, or even instantly like a stance, i can see a use but as it is...

Otyughs cry is totally useless in PvE and PvP, everywhere.

Akhilleus · Jan 02, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesome sauce

worst skill for monk is by far unyielding aura

who would waste their leet on a res that costs 10 energy +-1 health regen, has 45 second recharge, and ends as soon as you die.

this is a horrible skill even if it wasnt leet.

for one, if you're in UW or FoW with a team this skill is beyond valuable, as not only does it provide unlimited resurects, but it also provides control...as in, if the moron you ressed continually aggros and dies, you can simply stop maintaining the enchantment, and voila, they're a goner. also, in fow if you're using a single stance-tank as the teams meat-shield and that guy so happens to die, unyielding allows them to continue their work without the DP...
that having been said, candy canes SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the effectiveness of UA.
one of the most annoying build to have ever used it was the good ole' rezmer...archane echo and unyielding aura allows you to really put a hamper on spike-teams.

tuna-fish_sushi · Jan 03, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Muddy terrain definately sucks cant run away from a battle and the enemy moves 10% slower but that also means you move 10% slower so this one is just a waste of a skill slot

also this skill screws runners

otyughs cry - get like 5bears to rush an enemy then use their corpses for putrid explosion or animate stuff

SpeedyKQ · Jan 03, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

My warrior is built around Flourish and I think it is very good. With a 14 strength you get 7 energy per skill. I hit Pure Stike first, then Power Attack, then Flourish and get 14 energy back and I can again use both attack skills right away. With a zealous sword and Flourish I can spam attack skills like crazy. I use my adrenaline skills for defense like Watch Yourself and Bonetti's. Works great.

Peewee · Jan 05, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

just replying to some fertile season haters, consider a overall teams health. Consider what it is nmost affacted by, at any given time. Answer? the number of ppl in your team that are alive. Now consider what fertlile season actually does. Increases the healthand defence of every1 within range. Now consider the enlarged difference inhealth between 2 teams, one of 8 ppl, the second with 8 plus 2 pets. With fertile season the diference is made much larger. Agreed that is a niche skill, but then so are many skills (order of pain and vamp for example). The argument that it does nothing, becuase it affects both teams is flawed down to the ground. Gravity affects both teams, i think you will find it gluing players to the ground, and the rules affect both teams. Its not what a spirit does that is important, as such, its how u use it to your advantage. Now, i think that Fertile season makes a massive difference to players, we are talking a completely chaning the rules of play. The beauty of this is, that you and your teamm know what the 'new rules' willl be, and the other team dont. use it to your advantage. Clearly if you dont know the importance of spirits for changing play throughout a gvg mathc, u have not been playing ranger long, or dont understand the concept fully. dont claim its the worst skill ever, because you cant use it effectively.

Havng said that, i beleive i posted something about muddy terrain, and its uselessness in a earlier post, or another thread. I still beleive that muddy terrain holds little advantage, and i found no effective way of making it work for a given team. possible as a flag stand holding method, but little else.

Effendi Westland · Jan 05, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

So....difficult....to....follow......must....have. ...spacing.....

Dmitri3 · Jan 06, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Unyielding Aura, a maintained enchant, stops when the person who casted it dies, which is what he meant I think. (Vengence, the non-elite, is not maintained but ends after 30 seconds.) At any rate, it is possible to use it in specialized builds, such as EoE chains. Or an ultimate res build xD

Lol, Unyielding Aura does not end when caster dies... this is somewhat hidden ability of this skill

.

Actually, this skill rocks if you can pair with another monk who use the same elite... it's just hard to use, that's all.

Although this is not very fun to run on a monk, in PvP atleast... I'd suggest Anet to remove the Divine Favor part from it - it'd become much more popular...

Skuld · Jan 10, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Otyugh's Cry - +20 armour for your pet, it's the animal equivalent of "watch yourself!"

The Acolyte · Jan 10, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back From The Dead

Necromancer:ill take Malaise cuz getting a 2 hp degeneration really sux...and for what? foe get 2 energy degeneration? extremely lame!

Totally disagree here...I use malaise all the time. It's extremely useful against monks and casters in general. Throw life siphon on someone, then cast malaise on that pesky caster. Watch as they cast a few spells and then realize they can't get regen energy. Also, is great against bonders who are trying to maintain more than 4 bonds in pvp. Once their energy dips below 0 they lose all but those first 4 bonds. And if you keep casting malaise on them then they won't be able to cast heals or bonds. Is there a counter to this, yes...just like there's a counter to all spells. However, this spell is EXTREMELY useful if used properly. People need to learn how to use their skills...there really isn't a useless skill in the game. It depends on the player...a player who doesn't understand the benefits of the skill makes that particular skill useless for them.

It's like hearing that mending is a "noob" or "useless" skill....very lame. There are some great, and overpowered, monk pvp builds that use mending very effectively. I guess this type of self indulged ignorance is good for those that don't listen to these lame comments, and find the benefits of all skills.

Just my two cents...

The Acolyte

zaxxon1982 · Jan 10, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

I'll come to the defense of Fertile Season too, as I've seen runners use it to get through tough spots (specifically the shadows at the end of the infusion run). Extra health and armor is useful for runners all around, and the fact that it helps the bad guys is irrelevant in a run situation.

Epinephrine · Jan 10, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Malaise is less useful against good players, who know to simply focus swap it off. It is probably great against rangers for example, who will be stuck suffering through it, or against warriors who are doubtful to have anything to cancel it with, and I can see it being useful at first on a caster, but if the caster ever get low enough they just swap to a sword and shield and back again to dispel it - the smart ones have a -5 energy weapon and a -2 energy focus, so they can easily drop their visible energy by 20.

The Acolyte · Jan 10, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Carridan

Also, if you have ever found an effective use for any of the skills that people claim to be the game's bottom of the barrel, I'd love to hear it.

Monk: Vital Blessing. I don't know of any builds that benefit from -1 energy regeneration for a bit of extra health.

Just wanted to reply to the OP at the very least (sorry for neglecting to respond to you

).

Vital blessing is useful if you're a bonder pve. I like to use it on casters when barrier/protective spirit combo isn't getting the job done. Throw Vital Blessing on them and then it'll increase the amount of time available for the healer to do their job. Once things stabilize in the battle, take it off. When I play the bonder/prot roll, I max out my prot skill at 16, which means vital blessing increases health by 211. That's increasing caster hp by over 60% usually!

Also, it's great for taking advantage of the holding item exploit. While the tank is carrying the item, throw Bond/barrier/vital blessing/essence on them, and then cover with prot s and breeze during battle so the bonds aren't removed. The healer will be bored out of their mind

The Acolyte

The Acolyte · Jan 10, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Malaise is less useful against good players, who know to simply focus swap it off. It is probably great against rangers for example, who will be stuck suffering through it, or against warriors who are doubtful to have anything to cancel it with, and I can see it being useful at first on a caster, but if the caster ever get low enough they just swap to a sword and shield and back again to dispel it - the smart ones have a -5 energy weapon and a -2 energy focus, so they can easily drop their visible energy by 20.

Yup, nothing to disagree with here. Like I said in my post, is there a counter; YES. But there's a counter to everything. Most people aren't prepared to deal with malaise...and it's one of those skills that isn't used often right now which makes it even more deadly (since people aren't prepared to deal with it).

Also, you're assumption is that the necro won't keep the caster covered in malaise. It's easy to see when it's dispelled, because you gain ticks in hp regen. They get rid of it by letting their energy dip to 0, np! I did my job since no energy means no casting, and all I need to do is cast it again on the caster. Repeat process to take the caster out of the battle. It only costs 5 enegy to cast it, which is as cheap as it gets for necro casting outside of sigs.

My point is this: malaise, and many of the spells discussed here, are actually very usefull skills. Just take some time to try different spell combinations and/or use them in different situations. 99.9% of the time it's not the spell that's useless, it's the way the player is trying to use the skill.

The Acolyte

EDIT: corrected some spelling/grammatical errors...bleh....

art_ · Jan 10, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

for one, if you're in UW or FoW with a team this skill is beyond valuable, as not only does it provide unlimited resurects, but it also provides control...as in, if the moron you ressed continually aggros and dies, you can simply stop maintaining the enchantment, and voila, they're a goner. also, in fow if you're using a single stance-tank as the teams meat-shield and that guy so happens to die, unyielding allows them to continue their work without the DP...
that having been said, candy canes SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the effectiveness of UA.
one of the most annoying build to have ever used it was the good ole' rezmer...archane echo and unyielding aura allows you to really put a hamper on spike-teams.

Seconded. UA is not anything like the worst skill in the game.

Tellani Artini · Jan 11, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Someone mentioned Infuse Health. Back in the spirit spamming days, we used Fertile Season + Infuse Health for ~500 heals on ghostly hero ftw. Hint: the monks don't cast it.

I'm glad someone else wrote the essay on why Otyugh's isn't useless so I don't have to.

The thing about PnH is, you can keep it on two people at once. It's still not much for energy management, but you can share it unlike some other solutions.

Anyone that says Heal Party is no good needs to get out their calculator. Let's say your Heal Party heals 85 (skill plus DF). 85x8 = 680 healing, which happens to be just enough to beat the hell out of that tainted flesh mass DoT build. Unlike martyr, it can't be picked off by humility.

The only skill mentioned that I can't find a use for yet is Called Shot. I guess it would be handy for a mass Apply Poison/Melandru's Arrows spreader to get past Aegis, but I do not think it is worth the skill slot when you could have something like Crippling Shot or Precision Shot instead. Then there is always the Marksman's Wager combo for a guaranteed net gain of ~5 energy.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Spinal Shivers, but it does have an obvious combo with Marksman's Wager and an icy bow.

Did they fix the bug with Muddy Terrain that caused speed penalties (i.e. crippling) to also have no effect?

Deflect Arrows: Sure, other warrior stances do the same thing and don't end when you attack. But they can't be kept up 2/3 of the time.

I would agree that Skull Crack is not too handy as an elite. I guess it's just there so they can claim "dazed" is not exclusive to rangers.

glountz · Jan 11, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

Anyone that says Heal Party is no good needs to get out their calculator. Let's say your Heal Party heals 85 (skill plus DF). 85x8 = 680 healing, which happens to be just enough to beat the hell out of that tainted flesh mass DoT build. Unlike martyr, it can't be picked off by humility.

Heal party is useful, no doubt, but you need very good energy management, in addition it is useful only against particular opposite teams. Many teams (spike) deals their damage target after target, so Heal Party is near to useless.
In addition, I don't remember Heal party comboed with Divine Favor, last month when I tested it it didn't.
A decent healing skill, but not the best to me - with full potential only maxed with a very large party (8+, with pets generally).

Savio · Jan 11, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Lol, Unyielding Aura does not end when caster dies... this is somewhat hidden ability of this skill

.

Actually, this skill rocks if you can pair with another monk who use the same elite... it's just hard to use, that's all.

Although this is not very fun to run on a monk, in PvP atleast... I'd suggest Anet to remove the Divine Favor part from it - it'd become much more popular...

Huh, didn't know that. I just strip it whenever I see it. I doubt it'd become that much more popular though without the DF requirement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

Anyone that says Heal Party is no good needs to get out their calculator. Let's say your Heal Party heals 85 (skill plus DF). 85x8 = 680 healing, which happens to be just enough to beat the hell out of that tainted flesh mass DoT build. Unlike martyr, it can't be picked off by humility.

You only get the DF bonus on yourself - apparently it targets yourself and not the party.

Grammar · Jan 12, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

My nomination will be Elementalist's Conjures. Those Conjures are the worst skills in the game because:
1.) Conjure does not fit with Elementalists. You lose all enchantments and you need to attack. All those are against Ele's design. Ele has no self heal except for Aura of Restoration (which you need to cast in order to get healed) and Ele benefits more if they cast spells and gain energy back through Attument. All these are against the nature of Conjure. E/W can use Conjure of course but that's more of a "fun" build than the really "competitive" one. Losing enchantments as an Ele is just not safe and Elementalists do get their enchantment stripped all the time (in comparison to ranger/warrior).

2.) +17 "elemental" dmg is nothing to be scared about. It's terrible against warrior/ranger primary and it does not provide the "spike" that most Ele need to kill. Ok...so who can use Conjures.....?

3.) Ranger has Preparations that are not enchantments, cost less energy and benefit them more because Wilderness has Troll Urgent and useful traps. Yes, you can adjust to the point that having Conjure Flame + Kindle Arrow yield a bit more fire dmg (+30 instead of +26) but in my opinions, it's not worth it. You need to invest in Fire which is secondary and it's not like most Rangers can spam fire spells.

As for Warrior, I would go with Strength of Honor for more consistent +8 dmg. The trouble of using secondary enchantment is not just worth it IMO. Oh and you need to have the corresponding Elemental Upgrade so that's another down side.

4.) I understand that not all skills benefit Primary class. A good example will be Necro's Order that don't really benefit them that much but it's very useful in an organized Team. You can't cast Conjure on anybody else!

5.) Conjures require a successful "hit" in order to provide the effect. Since Conjures don't fit well with Ele primary, warrior/ranger would use them. Well, when warrior/ranger get blinded, the effectiveness of Conjure is gone. When the target is under Guardian, defensive stance, you can't land a hit. This is not the major reason why I think Conjures are the worst but it's another reason to show why Conjure's usefulness can be easily replaced in this game, thus serving little purpose.

Overall, I think Conjures need to be upgraded. They are definitely not the "hot" skills in the game.

Sorry for the long quote, but I had to bring this back up.
I want to hear other peoples' opinions on this, because I'm torn at the moment.
I agree 100% that Conjures are pretty much useless for primary eles (except for possibly a degen build revolving around Mark of Rodgort), but I'm torn as to their usefulness for a R/E.

Most R/E have around 8 attribute points in fire. That would put the Conjure at 9 extra damage. The problem is, a vast majority of the time, you'll never actually see it do the full 9 extra damage. That damage is calculated seperately and takes AL into consideration, so you're much more likey to get something like 4-6 damage most of the time, depending on the enemy.
So my question is this: Is 4-6 damage really worth the 8 attribute points in fire?

Murder In China · Jan 12, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

^ I agree with you, Read the Wind and Favorable Wind are more useful for a ranger as the damage they add are armor ignoring.

Mort · Jan 12, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Heal party is great for PVE. i dont know why some people hate it. You just need energy management. If your using maintained enchants, you might want to think twice about taking this. but if you have 4 pips of energy you should be okay on energy, you just need some type of energy skill. I usually go with Inspired Hex. I dont play much PVP so I dont know how effective is its in a PVP match.

The conjure element skills can be interesting. But this is situational in PVE. If you know your going to be facing ice golems and ice imps why not bring along a firey weapon.

Otyughs is useful as a pet buff. not to get level 5s to attack your target. Worth bringing especially if a couple of your teammates bring pets as well.

Someone actually said crippling shot was the worst ranger skill. Lol.

My vote for the worst skill is Symbol of Wrath. W/Mos cant bring this anymore because it will break their aggro and cause the mobs to attack the casters. Monks primaries shoudl forget about bringing this. Even as a pure smiting monk, your better off smiting off your party members.