Curse

I Brother Bloood I · Sep 15, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

*AHEM* AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111 111111111ONEONEONEELEVEN
God Dammit!

Now what?

Edit - As In shock evis and other things it was used for like iway (Yay iway nerf) will we be seeing more charg swords or maybe battle rage wars or primal rage wars?

Rera · Sep 15, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

As I've said elsewhere, the Eviscerate nerf isn't significant in the context of what it's normally used for: spiking. 9 less damage out of a possible 200+ is less than 5% of the total damage, and is less than the average variation in axe damage. Certainly we'd like as much damage as possible, but is a -9 nerf enough to destroy the spike? I don't think so.

Where the -9 damage is significant is in calculating average damage over time. The point of the nerf, then, is to force players to pay a higher price in DPS to retain their spiking potential.

ss1986v2 · Sep 15, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

well said Rera. the change to evicerate wasnt a nerf, it was simply a balance. lowering the overall dps of skill, while doing little to the real beauty of the skill, the ability to spike. it was well over due for a change IMO.

SnipiousMax · Sep 15, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

A more significant change I think, is the lowering of the adrenaline requirement for Dismember.... But no, this is no change at all to Eviscerate.

Don't expect the metagame to warp itself around a -9 hit change.

sgtclarity · Sep 15, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

^ What they said, I won't waste time reiterating well stated points.

One more thing: PRIMAL RAGE SUCKS AND WILL NEVER BE USED VIABLY.

That is all.

I Brother Bloood I · Sep 15, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Wow ur quick to judge have u ever used primal rage + iway + judges insight i guess not...

Racthoh · Sep 15, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Edit - As In shock evis and other things it was used for like iway (Yay iway nerf) will we be seeing more charg swords or maybe battle rage wars or primal rage wars?

If you want to spike, Eviscerate as it has been said is still the best choice. -9 damage from the 300 damage potential spike of Eviscerate + Executioner's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Brother Bloood I

Wow ur quick to judge have u ever used primal rage + iway + judges insight i guess not...

He probably hasn't because any warrior can kill a non-kiting target with any skills on their bar, which is the only thing a warrior not using a speed buff stance will hit.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 18, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I think it kind of defeats the 'idea' behind Eviscerate...

It's supposed to be a combination of Dismember + Executioner's Strike.

Now it's more a combination of Dismember + Cleave...

Now everyone says Cleave is a shitty elite so...

Does that make Eviscerate now shittier as a result?

Despite the fact that it still does bigger spikes in a 2 hit combo than anything else [for 0 energy no less], I still think it's been marred to the point where, well, it's Cleave + Dismember...

I admit the metagame won't change for -9 dmg but come on, IT'S CLEAVE WITH DISMEMBER!?!?!

SnipiousMax · Sep 18, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

^ You're looking at it wrong.

The fact that it deals damage AND a deep wound in ONE skill leaves it open for a very devestating spike. Its the fact that you can deal a massive amount of damage in two hits (Eviscerate + Executioners) instead of three (attack skill + Dismemeber + Executioners) that makes Eviscerate powerful. It leaves very little chance for the other team to heal the target.

Evilsod · Sep 18, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

This nerf really is been blown out of proportion...

Oh and never mention Primal Rage again. It is the hands down worst elite in the entire game... it even beats Archers Signet, which is saying something!

bg_solidsnake · Sep 18, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I think this is agood nerf.Im a Warrior ussualy and i dont like it much but this is needed ballance so its OK!Its not the end of the world!CHILL!

Rera · Sep 18, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

The point of Eviscerate is spiking. You can't compare it to any (skill1)+(skill2). The key difference isn't so much that it saves you a slot on your skillbar, but that you get +damage and deep wound in *one hit*. This is the difference between dropping the target in a 2-hit spike, or having your spike reversal'd. If you've ever monked in PvP, you'll know how much easier it is to save someone against a combo like cleave+dismember+executioner's than it is against evisc+exec.

The reasoning behind the nerf is consistent with the spike vs. DPS aspect of GW. The reason spiking is balanced is because spike builds (and, by extension, spiking skills) achieve lower DPS than pressure builds. Non-warrior classes have always had to choose between unloading all of their damage at once (and being mostly useless the rest of the time), or doing sustained damage over time. With the old Eviscerate, warriors sacrificed hardly any DPS.

The Real Roy Keane · Sep 19, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

At least it's SOME sort of attempt at balance-not that it was necessarily an unbalanced skill. The last 'nerf' Eviscerate received was the upping of its adrenaline cost from seven to eight - which made absolutely zero difference, since one waits for Executioner's Strike to charge before unleashing the combo.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 19, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

good spikes don't need executioner's.

kazjun · Sep 20, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Has anyone noticed now they seem to be nerfing warriors? First was our armour, fair enough. It was a bug. But they hit runes and shields. Now they nerf evis and combined with the tigers fury hit...
Sure we can use use frenzy/sprint combo. Or Tigers stance but still.
And increased recharge for bulls. What did we get? Decrease cost of dismember, which no one uses anyway with evis available. We get like nothing.
And its especially bad since if you look at the changes for say assassins, its like they're getting either increased dam or reduce recharge. And with dervs coming along, it seems like why do they even keep warrs around. And paragons get like 80 armour base on top of that too. It's just very annoying.

Poison Ivy · Sep 20, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

^Well yeah, arn't you tired of seeing a Warrior in every outpost and town?

Eviscerate was a bit overpowered compaired to Swords even I have to admit, that nurf was a fair balance in my opinion.

kazjun · Sep 20, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

They're for different things though. Even just the items themselves. Swords give a more constant dps, axes are more extreme damage but not as often for spiking. Can't really compare the two and say its balanced...

LightningHell · Sep 20, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Swords don't give a constant DPS higher than Axes when you factor in critical hits.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 20, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

good spikes don't need executioner's.

True, only the Best Spikes use Executioner's...

As to what Rera mentioned, it's true, though I think people are taking my post on Cleave+Dismember a little too seriously...

I'm just saying from an opinionated standpoint, it is technically Cleave+Dismember. GAH*! I love the fact it slaps you with AL IGNORING bonus damage with Deep Wound, and I'm not going to stop using it if that's what some of you psychos are thinking...

But the fact is, going by #'s and skill descriptions, we get nerfed by this. We take a hit in dps [not that I care really, since axe spike will be more feared than any other form of dps anyway] but did they really need to take away 9hp worth of damage?

Like most of you have said, it's 'not much' dmg to remove so my rebuttal is, why remove it?

kazjun · Sep 22, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

True, crits for axes do factor in, but they're like 25% of the time?
With say dragonslash, standing, galrath you'd have about constant +42 per hit for 20 secs regardless of armour or crits. Before factions I reckon that a 16 axe would have higher dps but since dragonslash, I don't think there's much that could match a swordchains dps...
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm always on the lookout for warrior stuff.
All the better to kill squishies with