Curse

torry · Apr 01, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Class: Monk / Warrior

Assumed items:
+1 to Divine Favor
+1 to Healing Prayers

Attributes: (cost)
Divine Favor: 10+1 (61)
Healing Prayers: 11+1 (77)
Tactics: 10 (61)

Total attribute points used: 199/200

Skills:
1) Word of Healing (availability) (elite) - (5,34,4) Heal target other ally for 67 points. Heal for an additional 83 points if that ally is below 50% health. This is an elite skill.
2) Signet of Devotion (availability) - (0,2,5) Heal target ally for 77 health.
3) Infuse Health (availability) - (10,14,0) Lose half your current health. Target other ally is healed for 129% of the amount you lost.
4) Healing Breeze (availability) - (10,1,2) For 10 seconds, target ally gains health regeneration of 8.
5) Vigorous Spirit (availability) - (5,1,4) For 30 seconds, each time target ally attacks or casts a spell, that ally is healed for 11 health.
6) Healing Signet (availability) - (0,2,4) You gain 115 health. You take double damage while using this skill.
7) Shield Stance (availability) - (5,0,60) For 16 seconds, while wielding a shield, you have a 75% chance to block incoming attacks, but you move 33% slower.
8) Bonetti's Defense (availability) - (8a,0,0) For 9 seconds, you have a 75% chance to block incoming melee attacks and arrows. You gain 5 energy for each successful melee attack blocked. Bonetti's Defense ends if you use a skill.

The stances are just there to fill the void.
Vigorous Spirit gives a lot of healing for "free"
Infuse Health is the best heal around. Darn..it cant top WoH it seems! Bummer. However, the Infuse Health is FREE (Healing Signet). And the cast time of Infuse is a lifesaver.
Healing Signet to fuel Infuse Health.

If this guy gets focused, he slaps on stances, and dont bother with Infuse of course.

Stances will help him if he gets melee focused, and of course Healing Signet to be used with care.

Comments? How much HP does a Monk have anyway?

Allmightybob · Apr 01, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

480 Hp base at level 20, every class has that

Draken · Apr 01, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I believe you can use healing touch on yourself now so use that instead of healing signet it doesn’t have any negative side effects.

Also I suggest "watch yourself!" instead of shielding stance since it doesn’t cost energy and you can use it a lot more often.

I’m not much for vigorous spirit I think Orson is more efficient personally.

Infuse health takes a lot of skill to use you can't go around spamming it. You have to use it when a friendly is dangerously low on life which can be a bad since they can kill him before you even realize you need to use it. It’s debatable if its worth the risk but I think its a good skill.

mostro · Apr 01, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Infuse health is nice if you need to do a very big heal in a very short time frame, but generally is not considered as "the best heal around". I don't know if I would use healing signet to fuel the hp loss generated by infuse health; it seems like a waste of time to me.

tastegw · Apr 02, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostro

Infuse health is nice if you need to do a very big heal in a very short time frame, but generally is not considered as "the best heal around". I don't know if I would use healing signet to fuel the hp loss generated by infuse health; it seems like a waste of time to me.

i agree, i think 2 lesser healing skills that cast really fast would outway that combo of infuse + healing sig.

gotta remember, you dont gain your divine passive bonus with healing sig.
cause its not a spell.

you might can squeeze this in there i love this healing skill.

Dwayna's Kiss
Heal target other ally for 15-51 health and an additional 5-17 health for each Enchantment or Hex on that ally.
Spell - 5 energy - 1 cast - 3 recharge

lets say your healing my monk, and ive gotten all 4 of my enchants up + 2 or 3 other hex's.

you could heal me for a total of about 200 hp's.

a great combo to do here is word of healing and then dwayna's kiss.
after that, i got a 100 bucks that says im back at 100% hp's.
that is if i was under heavy fire.

torry · Apr 02, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Seems like only SuperJ understood the point of the build...

The whole point with healing signet is that it doesnt cost mana. the whole purpose of the build is to be able to heal 500 hp in 2 seconds, at 15 mana cost. Very mana efficiently. Using Orison or Healing Touch to gain back the Infused health just screws up the mana usage.

I also pointed out it was situational, both the use of Infuse and Signet. However, as far as I have been able to play primary monk, there is a lot of time where you can do this combo efficiently.

Also, many times it is teh focus fire that kills the target. 500 heal in 2 seconds should help on that. Time is of an essence then. You know, the definition of success in war is to apply superior forces vs an opponent at a particular time and place on the battlefield. It doesnt matter if the French had as much soldiers as Germany had, Germany took em in 2 weeks. Infuse Health is here in other words an anti blitz tool

Vigorous spirit will heal a melee character a lot of health for 5 mana. and it stacks in the way that when it is applied at the bottom of the enchantment stack, it will work for a good 30 seconds. This helps take away the need for for example 2 orisons on that person in 30 seconds. So there is no contradiction between Orison and VS, they are used for different things.

Watch yourself will not aid the Healing signet, if used at the same time. It is a good skill though, stops 30% of incoming damage.

mostro · Apr 02, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by torry

The whole point with healing signet is that it doesnt cost mana. the whole purpose of the build is to be able to heal 500 hp in 2 seconds, at 15 mana cost. Very mana efficiently. Using Orison or Healing Touch to gain back the Infused health just screws up the mana usage.

You are planning to use healing signet "on the side" for free healing to recover from using infuse health, correct? But normally you would only use healing signet if you are not being attacked because of the double damage penalty.

I gotta ask then, being a healer how often do you not being targetted/attacked on a battle? Do you see a lot of opportunity to use the healing signet? Personally I would take something else like healing touch in place of the healing signet.

torry · Apr 02, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

All those healing spell variants do the same thing. At varying mana efficiency. Why bother with Healing Touch too? Healing Touch doesnt lend anything new to the work of the healer, this is an attempt on a different approach.

Noted you also said "seems like a waste of time to me" (healing signet). This is all about mana efficiency. If there is no time to be mana efficient, thats fair enough. But if this would work for say 50% of the combat, it could be equalled with another Signet of Devotion at 150% efficiency. In addition to tremendous healing peak power.

(Note that Word of Healing STILL is the ultimate heal...200ish heal for 5 mana).

Jep, last BWE weekends I wasnt attacked more than 50% of the time maybe?
That is not so much. In those cases I would just do the normal WoH/Orison drill. Heck, would probably use Healing signet also if I used a stance

. It all depends on how well you take attacks too. I would just laugh off the 1-2 warriors trying to molest me, and after 15 seconds of missing hits they ran off to pursue some easier target. Those Tactics stances are really turnoff's for the melee attacking you.. :P

Sooo..you can also say that this defensive /W build will deter melee from attacking the monk. Allowing more use of Infuse Health!

That is why I bring Shield stance also. 8 secs of Bonettis. 15 secs of Shield Stance. New 8 secs of Bonettis. That is 31 seconds of 75% misses for the melee. They give up quickly.

I will test it if I get the chance, ok?

mostro · Apr 02, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by torry

All those healing spell variants do the same thing. At varying mana efficiency. Why bother with Healing Touch too? Healing Touch doesnt lend anything new to the work of the healer, this is an attempt on a different approach.

Noted you also said "seems like a waste of time to me" (healing signet). This is all about mana efficiency. If there is no time to be mana efficient, thats fair enough. But if this would work for say 50% of the combat, it could be equalled with another Signet of Devotion at 150% efficiency. In addition to tremendous healing peak power.

Well, I just don't like healing signet very much

Although it is very mana efficient because it is free, the time you spend to use it is not worth it to me.
But hey it may or may not work and the only way to know for sure is to test it

Also, I noticed that you have big healing spells for your teammates (which is good), but you only have healing breeze, signet of devotion, and healing signet to heal yourself. This may not be enough in some situations where you are being focus fired. Shield stance and bonetti may help against physical attack, but when you have a couple of elementalist (or other damage spells) doing burst damage to you the signet of devotion and healing signet may not be enough to save yourself. Just food for thought.

torry · Apr 04, 2005, 09:45 AM // 09:45

This build has some of the heaviest healing capability in the game. It got by far the best burst heal on your group mates compared to just about anything else. It does not have the scaled healing of Healing seed or Hands or similar, though.

It does lack Orison, you are right about that. Thats about it?

You are correct that it is not THE most powerful self healing build in the Mo/x division, but with only Orison lacking, I can't say I am too worried ?

Played ElMo last weekend, with Breeze only. Worked rather well. I did pick Breeze, because it has a very fast recycle, and will heal about as much as 2 Orisons. So you can dish out twice as much healing in the same time frame, although possibly exhausting your mana pool. However, for small heals, I can also use WoH to top off player hp pool, if there is no burst healing required. And of course Signet of Devotion.

I think maybe in focus fire, you need help from 1 or 2 other healers anyway. Lend me a Life Bond, and I will be even more happy.

I did use Infuse Health a bit in PvE before Christmas. It was the only way to keep stupid El-x players alive when they waded into the melee. Typically those guys and girls would die in just about 5 seconds if not Infused, WoH'ed and Breezed. However, I stopped doing that after a short while, it was not very efficient. Much better to let them die a few times, and say "gee, you must be more careful, you know there are limits to healing".

Then they suddenly stopped requiring all that healing

Ah, and one more comment

You just dont like Healing Signet. Well, that is up to you. But it is a rather unprofessional attitude if you let your general sentiment toward that particular skill, stop you from seeing particular uses for it in some niches. That is the beauty of this game, some obscure skills suddenly spring to life combined with other ugly cousins, opening up new possibilities

Truly, a badly timed Infuse+Signet = a world of pain, but thats part of the fun, isnt it. And it is burst damage that takes down your team mates too. If you can prevent that, it will be much harder for the opposition to break through the walls of your groups fortress, which basically is our bodies.

mostro · Apr 04, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by torry

This build has some of the heaviest healing capability in the game. It got by far the best burst heal on your group mates compared to just about anything else. It does not have the scaled healing of Healing seed or Hands or similar, though.

It does lack Orison, you are right about that. Thats about it?

You are correct that it is not THE most powerful self healing build in the Mo/x division, but with only Orison lacking, I can't say I am too worried ?

I not saying that you need to have orison. I am saying that your build is heavily slanted towards healing other people, and not enough heal for yourself. Dead healer==dead team.

Quote:

I think maybe in focus fire, you need help from 1 or 2 other healers anyway. Lend me a Life Bond, and I will be even more happy.

Not really. A decent header can and should withstand a focus fire for a reasonable time without help from two other healers supporting him (the exception is when you have a mesmer on your butt). Now assuming that you are going to always play with two other healers, do you really need to have both WoH and Infuse Health in your build seeing that there are two other healers already?

Quote:

You just dont like Healing Signet. Well, that is up to you. But it is a rather unprofessional attitude if you let your general sentiment toward that particular skill, stop you from seeing particular uses for it in some niches. That is the beauty of this game, some obscure skills suddenly spring to life combined with other ugly cousins, opening up new possibilities

Everyone has their preferences regarding skills. I don't like healing signet because it makes you take double damage when using it and the amount it heals is pretty low compared to spell like Healing Touch. Also my opinion is that as a monk you're going to be targeted often by your enemy therefore it is not a good idea to use healing signet on a monk. But, if you still want to combo Infuse Health and HealSig, go right ahead.

Unprofessional attitude? Haha, give me a break. This is just a game. I guess some of the gurus around here are also unprofessional because they keep kicking down ether lord and wastrel worry.

You know, I actually forgot to ask... is this build for PvE or PvP?

FrogDevourer · Apr 04, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Although I understand Torry's arguments, I'd tend to agree with Mostro:
- Not enough self healing
- Healing signet on a primary monk is asking for instant death.
- If your signet is interrupted, you're left with 50% hp (again on a primary monk, gawd!)

Both skills can be useful indeed. Infuse is an outstanding panic button, and healing signet is actually very useful if you're not a monk secondary. But I'd be very reluctant use this combination as a core for PvP monk in the Tombs or GvG.

On a W/Mo, this panic combo would be acceptable. They are never targetted until the primary healers are killed, and their armor gives them a margin of error. On a primary monk who's fire focussed, you're asking for mesmer interrupt and instant death from an air elementalist.

Personally I'd make a Mo/Me with inspiration and I'd replace the healing signet by Ether Feast, and stances by energy management skills (Channeling come to mind), as well as more self-healing. And I'd equip Healing Seed on a couple of healers in the group. You'd play a more robust healer with a dangerous but acceptable panic button combination.

However, if you're planning to play PvE (with a decent group) or in the Gladiator Arena, you should do well since instant deaths and fire focus are somewhat rarer.

torry · Apr 04, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Hey hey hey, you are saying that to have sufficient self healing, a monk MUST have
a) orison
b) signet of devotion
c) healing breeze
d) vigorous spirit

and use them ALL consecutively to survive?
Hell, this build will laugh off 2 melee with Battle rage fired up, no problem.

How often do you see a Mo/x build which has such a powerful defense vs melee? Hardly ever. This build is far, far stronger in that respect than most Mo/x builds out there.

A _possible_ soft spot is focus by many casters. And that "soft spot" is only lack of Orison

Big deal! I lack a heal of 100 hp every 3 seconds! Also remember that caster spells generally have less range than monk heals. The casters must get into the thick of the fight to focus on me.

Try to see the true purpose of the build........the true purpose of the build is to stretch the mana efficiency of a primary monk as far as possible.......it offers a possibility to increase mana efficiency a LOT. 320 heal for 10 mana is TWICE as good as Breeze & Orison, and only beaten by WoH.

If I have to revert to "ordinary" healing, I will still do it with tremendous efficiency due to WoH & Breeze. No risk taken.

If I am truly lucky, a melee or two will come over and help me do the mana regen Bonetti dance

Of course the build is for PvP, who would bother with Bonettis and Shield stance in PvE?

Okay, enough said, I will give it a shot and see what happens! As I said, I can easily play it out with hardly using Infuse and Healing Signet, and still be on par with any other Mo/x out there, due to Breeze, which is as efficient as Orison mana wise. For me, it will be a fun challenge to keep pushing the mana envelope as much as possible. Possibly quite a thrill to heal a guy from 50 to 600 hp in 2 seconds??

mostro · Apr 05, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Well, since your main skill in this build is Infuse Health, my advise to you is to at least look at the following builds which use the spell.

Arcanist Done Right: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ght-id1052.php

Blessed Healer:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ler-id1204.php

Not saying that your build is wrong, but these hopefully can at least help you polish/refine your build.

torry · Apr 06, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Thanks

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