Curse

Vashna · May 31, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

This is a very interesting discussion. I'm still new to PvP, but am interested in having any of my gross errors in judgment fixed as fast as possible

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

" I mean if I see an Air Elementalist on the opposing team blasting one of my Warriors with Enervating Charge and Blinding Flash I'm just going to pump the fist."

This makes sense in 8v8, but I wonder if this build might actually work in 4v4. (The 4v4 arena seems to be getting more popular, by the way, and I find it quite fun as a change of pace.) In 4v4, I find that each teammate has to take on additional roles; you can't specialize as much. In that situation, I think it might make sense for a caster to take on the role of spiker + warrior shutdown, or spiker + warrior shutdown + quick knockdown. Also, hex removal is not going to be as fast in 4v4 simply because they were will be fewer monks on a team.

Quote:

"The thing I've noticed about Surge is that most people run Surge + Orb instead of Surge + Chain, so there's a nice little self solution to their combo - running. This is a simple abuse of how projectiles work - basically they look at the target's current movement and fire at where that target should be if they keep moving in that direction. So if you just start running in a stright line with Surge on you, they'll fire the Orb at where you'll be if you kept running - except that .25 seconds after the Orb is fired, you get knocked down by Surge, stopping you in your tracks but also making the Orb fly off target"

I have run into this problem a lot with lightning orbs, actually. I've tried freezing opponents with ice prison and then using repeat lightning orbs (with arcane echo), which seems to work decently, although of course you don't get the surge spike. I didn't think about using Surge + Chain, which seems like a good way around it, but doesn't the double exhaustion hurt bad?

Ibanezgtrsst07 · May 31, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

Also, in the chance that you do try out your initial build ... your gonna have to aim Guilt at an 'offensive' target ... usually these are dead first and fastest rendering this skill less than medeocre. I would rather drop in Shame as you are more likely to encounter longer living monks and paladins (ressurects). team builds are often more geared towards defensive offensive appoach and you will likely get more use from this ...

that being said I'm gonna bash the both of these skills now (as a mesmer) and say for a 30 second recharge this skill is utterly useless ... your job is not to interrupt ... your job is to deal high air damage ... replace it with a low cost channeling (as all of your skills are spells) or another spell of your desire.

I thought I mentioned this before, but that build I have I have used it in TONS of PvP matches, and it works wonders against Warriors and spellcasters. It doesn't do that great of damage to rangers because of their high magic defense, but I've taken down spellcasters without a problem and took down some warriors in a matter of seconds.

I should've mentined that this IS in fact a 4v4 Build. But let's also take both sides and try to build an 8v8 build. Sorry I should've mentioned that before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

With this you slap a power hex on your target to make him scramble for removal, then back that up with heavy air spike damage. Between spikes you just keep hammering with Lightning Strike, Orb, and Conjure + Wand. If you see Warrior trains just slap down a Ward and let the Monks run around in it.

I tried using conjure lightning in pvp and really didn't get that much more damage. (I think about 6-10 more damage with a 11-22 wand).

[Quote=Ibanezgtrsst07]
Or, I could give the remaining points into water magic considering air magic does extra damage when the opponent is under a water hex such as ice prison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

That's just Lightning Touch. Other Air spells don't care about Water hexes at all.

Thanks for reminding me about that. Haha, I'm losing my mind.

Sorry about not mentioning that thsi was 4v4. However, once we finish building this 4v4 pvp character, Perhaps we can continue on the 8v8 build. (Unless these suggestions were for 4v4).

Of course I'm going to have to change things up a bit when I start doing 8v8.

By the way, there's no point in having shock in an LSurge build; shock causes exhaustion and much less damage, it does the exact same thing as LSurge but is worse.

So as an update, for a 4v4 PvP battle,let's take out lightning jav for lightning strike for easy, low cost damage.

1. Lightning Strike
2. Lightning Orb
3. Lightning Surge (E)
4. Air Attunement
5. Glyph of Lesser Energy
6. Blinding Flash
7. Backfire
8. Guilt/Shame once again. (Monks aren't as common in 4v4 in the PvE PvP arenas.)

For 8v8 PvP, let's start with something basic and general

1. Lightning Strike
2. Lightning Orb
3. Lightning Surge (E)
4. Air Attunement
5. Glyph of lesser Energy
6. Insert Skill Here
7. Insert Skill Here
8. Insert Skill Here

Edit: what if in 8v8 (or even 4v4) I equip Shatter Hex and use it on a hexed warrior or someone who is surrounded or trapped? That may be playing an extra role as not only an E/Me but also a Mo with the hex removal, but it can do some pretty good damage to adjacent foes. Just a thought.

Ensign · Jun 01, 2005, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Are we talking arranged arena or random arena? In random arena just play whatever / experiment. If you want to just mop up in random arena play a Monk - 1 Monk + 3 random guys = 10 game win streak.

In arranged arena you're looking at a bunch of fun 1½ Monk strategies and even more fun with buff stacking since the removal just isn't going to be there.

Um...yeah.

Peace,
-CxE

Vashna · Jun 01, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Was talking arranged 4v4 arena. Well, still fun for me, at least for now.

ipierago · Jun 02, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Long time reader, first time poster.

What about running Energy Burn and Energy Surge {Elite} on your E/Me for a PvP monk killer? These two skills ignore armor for an (almost) guaranteed 72 points of damage with domination at 12.

If a damage spike is so important, keep Lightning Surge {Elite} and use Energy Burn as the follow-up?

Thanks,
Ian

Ibanezgtrsst07 · Jun 02, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipierago

Long time reader, first time poster.

What about running Energy Burn and Energy Surge {Elite} on your E/Me for a PvP monk killer? These two skills ignore armor for an (almost) guaranteed 72 points of damage with domination at 12.

If a damage spike is so important, keep Lightning Surge {Elite} and use Energy Burn as the follow-up?

Thanks,
Ian

Not a bad idea, however since I have my air at 16 and my energy storage at 10+1, I won't have enough points for a level 12 domination. My dom is at 10 right now. Energy burn would probably work, but it has the same charge time as backfire (I think, haven't used it in so long.)

I would like to have at least one mesmer spell that either interupts or causes damage when an enemy does x action. Then a mana recovery/stealing skill to help conserve energy.

Usually in the 4v4 arenas, I cast Backfire then Shame on the monk. So their spell gets interupted, I steal 11 energy, and they take 100+ damage from at least one backfire move. When they choose to do nothing, that' when I surge and spike them with orb and strike.

Apocalyptic Touch · Jun 06, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

this may be minorly off topic, but it does pertain to pvp air eles

im relatively inexperienced with eles, and i was just wondering why chain lightning is seldom mentioned in pvp builds

thx--apoc

Minwanabi · Jun 06, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

im relatively inexperienced with eles, and i was just wondering why chain lightning is seldom mentioned in pvp builds

It's mentioned occasionally, but you run into the double exhaustion problem - surge is almost always included on an air ele build, so some people feel the need to avoid chain lightning. At the same time, for spiking a single target, it's no better than an org or a surge. Of course, I usually run it myself, it just may not be as mainstream.

Oh, and on an offnote, at 16 air magic, conjure lightning adds 17 damage.

Apocalyptic Touch · Jun 06, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

alrighty, thanks

Ibanezgtrsst07 · Jun 06, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minwanabi

It's mentioned occasionally, but you run into the double exhaustion problem - surge is almost always included on an air ele build, so some people feel the need to avoid chain lightning. At the same time, for spiking a single target, it's no better than an org or a surge. Of course, I usually run it myself, it just may not be as mainstream.

Yeah, Chain Lightning is just as good as orb or surge. I don't like the double exhaustion especially after around 10+ calls it can get pretty frustrating with mana usage. It is still a very good spell and LSurge builds seem to be mentioned a little more than chain lightning builds.

As for 8v8 PvP, I have a new build that perhaps you guys can help edit with me. Here it is:

Air Magic: 12+4
Energy Storage: 10+1
Domination: 9
5 Points leftover

Skills:
1. Chain Lightning or Lightning Strike
2. Lightning Orb
3. Lightning Surge
4. Glyph of Lesser Energy
5. Air Attunement
6. Blinding Flash
7. Shame
8. Shatter Hex

Skills 7 and 8 work unusually well in 8v8 pvp. When my team is battling and someone in hexed, the person just says it on teamspeak and they walk towards the called target or monks and I use shatter hex and deal 95 damageto anyone by that which can be the chain lightning replacement skill although chain does more damage and isn't a situational skill.

Shame is used to prevent a dying monk or called target from healing. Since healing spells are commonly used from the monks, it's basically an instant stealing of 10 energy.

I could probably replace blinding flash with another air magic or a domination skill.

Falconer · Jun 06, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Count me as one of the people who doesn't mind the double exhaustion possibility of surge + chain.

Put simply, if you're playing an elementalist... energy management is your middle name. It is your life blood to do anything. Exhaustion is merely another variable in that equation. You just need to exhibit the appropriate level of self control and know when and when not to inflict the double exhaustion penalty.

I have to agree... you lack a lot of focus in the build.
There's a lot of other domination skills I'd consider instead.
Shatter enchant, wastrels maybe, Panic*, Diversion would all be better picks IMO.

FengShuiBundi · Jun 06, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

The creators added exhaustion for eles because they have the most energy in the game. Use it, abuse it. I always run double exhaustion and I do fine (maybe it's double attunements covering it up) 90% of the time, the other 10% it's because I made a judgement error and wasted an earthquake. That's about it. It should be fairly easy for a good ele to manage two light exhaustion spells.

Just watch when you cast, not that hard.

Ibanezgtrsst07 · Jun 07, 2005, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiBundi

The creators added exhaustion for eles because they have the most energy in the game. Use it, abuse it. I always run double exhaustion and I do fine (maybe it's double attunements covering it up) 90% of the time, the other 10% it's because I made a judgement error and wasted an earthquake. That's about it. It should be fairly easy for a good ele to manage two light exhaustion spells.

Just watch when you cast, not that hard.

Perhaps that would work. I can take out domination completely, max out energy storage, and then add the rest to inspiration to balance it out. That would probably work fine.

Ibanezgtrsst07 · Jun 07, 2005, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falconer

Count me as one of the people who doesn't mind the double exhaustion possibility of surge + chain.

Put simply, if you're playing an elementalist... energy management is your middle name. It is your life blood to do anything. Exhaustion is merely another variable in that equation. You just need to exhibit the appropriate level of self control and know when and when not to inflict the double exhaustion penalty.

I have to agree... you lack a lot of focus in the build.
There's a lot of other domination skills I'd consider instead.
Shatter enchant, wastrels maybe, Panic*, Diversion would all be better picks IMO.

Very true. In 4v4 though playing more than one role really helps out due to the limited number of players.

As for 8v8, I'm still fairly new to it, so there will be a lot more adjusting without a doubt.

Razorcraft · Jun 07, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I've been running Energy Surge + Lightning Strike. With Orb as a backup.

I really really miss Energy Drain. With surge on there... :/ That only leaves me with Tap. That doesnt give me nearly enough of a return in energy to be useful.

EDIT: Oh yeh. There is a counter to the surge. Not sure I want to spoil it tho

Hint: it breaks hexes... (runs)

Silver_47 · Jan 03, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

I've been so far using this build and i think it has worked out rather good:

1:Lightning Javelin
2:Lightning Strike
3:Lightning Orb
4:Gale
5:Spirit Of Failure
6:Physical Resistance
7:Air Attunemente
8:Elemental Attunement [Elite]

Attributes:
Inspiration:10
Air:11
Energy:10
--------------------------------
Air Attunemente and Elemental Attunement works excelente together, giving me almost no energy loss at all as they stack and gives me 80% of the energy i spend on air skills back. and that 20% that i lose usualy Spirit of Failure takes care of. (Hex spell, 25% miss and every miss gives me 4 energy)

Physical Resistance works well together with Spirit Of failure against Warrior, but if i want to swap something for another skill it's usually this skill. (Gives me 40+ armor against physical but -18 against elemental. It's also a instant cast spell!)

Gale speaks for itself, knockdown is never wrong and the rest is just for nuking.

What does y'all think?