Curse

Falrow · Nov 13, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Uses 5 spikers, 1 order mesmer, 1 prot, 1 healer

================================================== ==============

Spring Spike

Ranger/Mesmer
Level: 20

Expertise: 9 (8+1)
Wilderness Survival: 11 (10+1)
Marksmanship: 16 (12+4)
Domination: 2

Dual Shot (Ranger other)
Shoot two arrows simultaneously at target foe. These arrows deal 25% less damage than normal.
Energy:6.4 Cast Time:0 Recharge:5

Punishing Shot [Elite] (Marksmanship)
If Punishing Shot hits, you strike for +21 damage and your target is interrupted.
Energy:6.4 Cast Time:0.5 Recharge:8

Kindle Arrows (Wilderness Survival)
For 24 seconds, your arrows deal fire damage and hit for and additional 19 fire damage.
Energy:3.2 Cast Time:2 Recharge:12

Healing Spring (Wilderness Survival)
For 10 seconds, all nearby allies are healed for 48 Health every 2 seconds. While activating this skill, you are easily interrupted.
Energy:6.4 Cast Time:2 Recharge:20

Favorable Winds (Marksmanship)
Create a level 11 Spirit. For creatures within its range, arrows move twice as fast as normal and strike for +6 damage. This Spirit dies after 158 seconds.
Energy:3.2 Cast Time:5 Recharge:60

Drain Enchantment (Inspiration)
Remove an Enchantment from target foe. If an Enchantment is removed, you gain 10..20 Energy.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1 Recharge:25

Hex Breaker (Domination)
For 25 seconds, the next time you are the target of a Hex, that Hex fails and the caster takes 15 damage.
Energy:3.2 Cast Time:0 Recharge:15

Resurrection Signet ()
Resurrect target party member. That party member is returned to life with 100% Health and 25% Energy. You may use this Signet only once per mission.

Energy:0 Cast Time:3 Recharge:0

Debuff

Mesmer/Necromancer
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 14 (10+4)
Blood Magic: 11
Death Magic: 10

Order of the Vampire [Elite] (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 17% max Health. For 5 seconds, whenever a party member hits a foe with physical damage, that party member steals 12 Health.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1.14 Recharge:5

Order of Pain (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 17% Health. For 5 seconds, whenever a party member hits a foe with physical damage, that party member does an additional 12 damage.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1.14 Recharge:0

Spirit of Failure (Inspiration)
For 30 seconds, target foe has a 25% chance to miss with attacks. You gain 1..4 Energy for whenever tha foe fails to hit in combat.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1.71 Recharge:10

Price of Failure (Curses)
For 30 seconds, target foe has a 25% chance to miss with attacks and takes 6..25 damage whenever that foe fails to hit in combat.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1.71 Recharge:10

Rigor Mortis (Curses)
For 8..18 seconds, target foe cannot "block" or "evade".
Energy:10 Cast Time:1.14 Recharge:30

Drain Enchantment (Inspiration)
Remove an Enchantment from target foe. If an Enchantment is removed, you gain 10..20 Energy.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.57 Recharge:25

Consume Corpse (Death Magic)
Exploit a random target corpse. You teleport to that corpse's location and gain 75 Health and 15 Energy.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.57 Recharge:0

Resurrection Signet ()
Resurrect target party member. That party member is returned to life with 100% Health and 25% Energy. You may use this Signet only once per mission.

Energy:0 Cast Time:1.71 Recharge:0

Heal Monk

Monk/Necromancer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 11 (10+1)
Healing Prayers: 14 (10+4)
Protection Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Blood Magic: 8

Heal Other (Healing Prayers)
Heal target other ally for 170 points.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:3

Infuse Health (Healing Prayers)
Lose half your current Health. Target other ally is healed for 134% of the amount you lost.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:0

Heal Area (Healing Prayers)
Heal yourself and all adjacent creatures for 170 points.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1 Recharge:5

Healing Touch (Healing Prayers)
Heal target touched ally for 57 Health. Health gain from Divine Favor is doubled for this Spell.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:5

Offering of Blood [Elite] (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 10% maximum Health. You gain 14 Energy.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:15

Healing Seed (Healing Prayers)
For 10 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, that ally and all adjacent allies gain 29 Health.
Energy:10 Cast Time:2 Recharge:25

Remove Hex (Monk other)
Remove a Hex from target ally.
Energy:5 Cast Time:2 Recharge:7

Aegis (Protection Prayers)
For 9 seconds, all party members have a 50% chance to block attacks.
Energy:15 Cast Time:2 Recharge:30

Prot Monk

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 9 (8+1)
Protection Prayers: 16 (12+4)
Inspiration: 9

Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
For 8 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage, that ally gains that amount of Health instead, maximum 84.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:2

Mend Ailment (Protection Prayers)
Remove one Condition (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleed, Crippled, or Deep Wound) from target ally. That ally is healed for 74 points for each remaining Condition.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:2

Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
For 24 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:5

Aegis (Protection Prayers)
For 11 seconds, all party members have a 50% chance to block attacks.
Energy:15 Cast Time:2 Recharge:30

Martyr [Elite] (Monk other)
All Conditions and their remaining durations from your party members to you.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:10

Inspired Hex (Inspiration)
Remove a Hex from target ally and gain 10 Energy. For 20 seconds, Inspired Hex is replaced with the Hex that was removed.
Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:0

Remove Hex (Monk other)
Remove a Hex from target ally.
Energy:5 Cast Time:2 Recharge:7

Channeling (Inspiration)
For 36 seconds, each time you cast a Spell you gain 1 Energy from each foe in the area.
Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:15

Eonwe · Nov 13, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I'm just going to take a look at the rangers. Kindle Arrows changes the arrow's damage from physical damage to fire damage. Now read the skill descriptions for order of the vampire and order of pain ;O . I would suggest substituting Read the Wind for Kindle Arrows. Also, not all of the rangers need to have favorable, only one guys does. On a side note, RtW and FW do not interact the way that they should; what ends up happening is you don't get that extra +6 damage from FW that you should be getting. I would drop FW all together and have only one ranger bring winnowing. Drop healing spring and you can take all your points out of wildnerness and invest some points into beast mastery for tiger's fury. Hex breaker is an interesting choice, although I would drop it for a distracting shot. Also, use flatbows.

Now for the attributes. You really don't need marksmanship that high, 14 is the breakpoint for +10 dmg on Read the Wind, so you can drop that down. Also, 14 is the sweet spot for expertise, always. These guys eat energy up pretty fast, believe me. Your attributes will end up looking like 14 (11+3) expertise, 14 marks (12+1+1), 7 beast(6+1), after runes ofcourse.

Falrow · Nov 13, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Thanks for pointing out the kindle problem, that singlehandedly ruins it.

Also I wasn't going to bring 5 favorables, probably a couple of different ones. Things like frozen soil.

Thanks for that favorable note, that will help alot.

I dunno about tigers fury, it won't work with hexbreaker both are stances. Will it add alot of power to the build? Without breaker I'd need the monks to run more hex removal.

In general, thanks for pointing out my dumb ass mistakes.

-Fal

Falrow · Nov 13, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Here's the new build, uses one "Beast spiker" for symbiosis and 4 "spring spikers" with a lingering debuffer.

Also I changed up the monks a bit so they use monk enchants so that symbiosis has more effect.

Beast Spike

Ranger/Mesmer
Level: 20

Expertise: 10 (9+1)
Beast Mastery: 10 (9+1)
Marksmanship: 16 (12+4)
Domination: 3

Dual Shot (Ranger other)
Shoot two arrows simultaneously at target foe. These arrows deal 25% less damage than normal.
Energy:6 Cast Time:0 Recharge:5

Punishing Shot [Elite] (Marksmanship)
If Punishing Shot hits, you strike for +21 damage and your target is interrupted.
Energy:6 Cast Time:0.5 Recharge:8

Power Shot (Marksmanship)
If Power Shot hits, you strike for +21 damage.
Energy:6 Cast Time:0 Recharge:6

Read the Wind (Marksmanship)
For 24 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast and deal 11 extra damage.
Energy:3 Cast Time:2 Recharge:12

Symbiosis (Beast Mastery)
Create a level 7 Spirit. For creatures within its range, for each Enchantment on a creature, that creature's maximum Health is increased by 109. This Spirit dies after 110 seconds.
Energy:3 Cast Time:5 Recharge:60

Drain Enchantment (Inspiration)
Remove an Enchantment from target foe. If an Enchantment is removed, you gain 10..20 Energy.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1 Recharge:25

Hex Breaker (Domination)
For 30 seconds, the next time you are the target of a Hex, that Hex fails and the caster takes 17 damage.
Energy:3 Cast Time:0 Recharge:15

Resurrection Signet ()
Resurrect target party member. That party member is returned to life with 100% Health and 25% Energy. You may use this Signet only once per mission.

Energy:0 Cast Time:3 Recharge:0

Spring Spike

Ranger/Mesmer
Level: 20

Expertise: 10 (9+1)
Wilderness Survival: 10 (9+1)
Marksmanship: 16 (12+4)
Domination: 3

Dual Shot (Ranger other)
Shoot two arrows simultaneously at target foe. These arrows deal 25% less damage than normal.
Energy:6 Cast Time:0 Recharge:5

Punishing Shot [Elite] (Marksmanship)
If Punishing Shot hits, you strike for +21 damage and your target is interrupted.
Energy:6 Cast Time:0.5 Recharge:8

Kindle Arrows (Wilderness Survival)
For 24 seconds, your arrows deal fire damage and hit for and additional 17 fire damage.
Energy:3 Cast Time:2 Recharge:12

Healing Spring (Wilderness Survival)
For 10 seconds, all nearby allies are healed for 45 Health every 2 seconds. While activating this skill, you are easily interrupted.
Energy:6 Cast Time:2 Recharge:20

Favorable Winds (Marksmanship)
Create a level 11 Spirit. For creatures within its range, arrows move twice as fast as normal and strike for +6 damage. This Spirit dies after 158 seconds.
Energy:3 Cast Time:5 Recharge:60

Drain Enchantment (Inspiration)
Remove an Enchantment from target foe. If an Enchantment is removed, you gain 10..20 Energy.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1 Recharge:25

Hex Breaker (Domination)
For 30 seconds, the next time you are the target of a Hex, that Hex fails and the caster takes 17 damage.
Energy:3 Cast Time:0 Recharge:15

Resurrection Signet ()
Resurrect target party member. That party member is returned to life with 100% Health and 25% Energy. You may use this Signet only once per mission.

Energy:0 Cast Time:3 Recharge:0

Debuff

Mesmer/Necromancer
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 14 (10+4)
Inspiration: 10 (9+1)
Curses: 7
Death Magic: 10

Lingering Curse [Elite] (Curses)
Sacrifice 10% max Health. Target foe loses all Enchantments. For 14 seconds, target foe gains only half Health from healing prayers.
Energy:25 Cast Time:1.71 Recharge:10

Rigor Mortis (Curses)
For 14 seconds, target foe cannot "block" or "evade".
Energy:10 Cast Time:1.14 Recharge:30

Spirit of Failure (Inspiration)
For 30 seconds, target foe has a 25% chance to miss with attacks. You gain 4 Energy for whenever tha foe fails to hit in combat.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1.71 Recharge:10

Price of Failure (Curses)
For 30 seconds, target foe has a 25% chance to miss with attacks and takes 17 damage whenever that foe fails to hit in combat.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1.71 Recharge:10

Weaken Armor (Curses)
For 24 seconds, target foe has an armor penalty of -20 against physical damage.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1.71 Recharge:30

Drain Enchantment (Inspiration)
Remove an Enchantment from target foe. If an Enchantment is removed, you gain 18 Energy.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.57 Recharge:25

Consume Corpse (Death Magic)
Exploit a random target corpse. You teleport to that corpse's location and gain 75 Health and 15 Energy.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.57 Recharge:0

Resurrection Signet ()
Resurrect target party member. That party member is returned to life with 100% Health and 25% Energy. You may use this Signet only once per mission.

Energy:0 Cast Time:1.71 Recharge:0

Heal Monk

Monk/Necromancer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 11 (10+1)
Healing Prayers: 14 (10+4)
Blood Magic: 8

Heal Other (Healing Prayers)
Heal target other ally for 170 points.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:3

Infuse Health (Healing Prayers)
Lose half your current Health. Target other ally is healed for 134% of the amount you lost.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:0

Heal Area (Healing Prayers)
Heal yourself and all adjacent creatures for 170 points.
Energy:10 Cast Time:1 Recharge:5

Healing Touch (Healing Prayers)
Heal target touched ally for 57 Health. Health gain from Divine Favor is doubled for this Spell.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:5

Offering of Blood [Elite] (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 10% maximum Health. You gain 14 Energy.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:15

Vigorous Spirit (Healing Prayers)
For 30 seconds, each time target ally attacks or casts a Spell, that ally is healed for 13 points.
Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:4

Remove Hex (Monk other)
Remove a Hex from target ally.
Energy:5 Cast Time:2 Recharge:7

Healing Seed (Healing Prayers)
For 10 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, that ally and all adjacent allies gain 29 Health.
Energy:10 Cast Time:2 Recharge:25

Prot Monk

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 9 (8+1)
Protection Prayers: 16 (12+4)
Inspiration: 9

Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
For 8 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage, that ally gains that amount of Health instead, maximum 84.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:2

Mend Ailment (Protection Prayers)
Remove one Condition (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleed, Crippled, or Deep Wound) from target ally. That ally is healed for 74 points for each remaining Condition.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.75 Recharge:2

Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
For 24 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell.
Energy:10 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:5

Aegis (Protection Prayers)
For 11 seconds, all party members have a 50% chance to block attacks.
Energy:15 Cast Time:2 Recharge:30

Martyr [Elite] (Monk other)
All Conditions and their remaining durations from your party members to you.
Energy:5 Cast Time:0.25 Recharge:10

Inspired Hex (Inspiration)
Remove a Hex from target ally and gain 10 Energy. For 20 seconds, Inspired Hex is replaced with the Hex that was removed.
Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:0

Remove Hex (Monk other)
Remove a Hex from target ally.
Energy:5 Cast Time:2 Recharge:7

Channeling (Inspiration)
For 36 seconds, each time you cast a Spell you gain 1 Energy from each foe in the area.
Energy:5 Cast Time:1 Recharge:15

Morty · Nov 13, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Also, use flatbows.

Why? Doesn't that lessen the bonus from Read the Wind? Even shortbows are easy enough to dodge. Putting RtW on a flatbow seems like using Obsidian Flesh on a runner.

M3lk0r · Nov 13, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Power Shot and Punishing is just ..... wrong. Unless your doing a dps build of course. But the best spike is the Dual+QS+Savage. And are you sure about Sybiosis? Give Predatory Season a look as well (works great with TF) but then you need to play with yer monks. And you forgot winnowing again, so you might want to put the Fav Winds on a 16 marks ranger and put winnowing on the WS one.

Edit: Check this thread: clicky!

PS: I'm sorry if such linking is frowned upon, but that is a power post.

M3lk0r · Nov 13, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morty

Why? Doesn't that lessen the bonus from Read the Wind? Even shortbows are easy enough to dodge. Putting RtW on a flatbow seems like using Obsidian Flesh on a runner.

No, if you take a look here you'll notice flatbows have the best refire rates (along with short) but high arc. Thus it benefits most from RtW & Fav Winds. This gives you the option to spike from furthur away.

Falrow · Nov 13, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I have a couple of noticies for you:

1. 4 of the 5 rangers are doing Fire damage only (1 beast 4 spring), thus winnowing does nothing

2. The 4 spring rangers will not all be carrying FW, only 1 person, maybe two. Others will have other spirits like Frozen Soil.

3. Only one ranger is using power shot. I only put it in there because that ranger has alot weaker spikes then the rest.

4. Symbiosis will work GREAT as long as the debuff gets the lingering on. Thus you linger the target on the call, it looses all enchants and goes back to normal HP, which is around 500. The total spike damage is executed right is ~800, with lingering on if that doesn't kill the healers will burn twice as much energy on the heal.

5. Preadatory season won't work well because my rangers are only attacking a couple of times then stoping. Thus preadatory will probably do more for thier warriors then us.

6. Healing springs is the trump of this build. With 4 rangers using spring it's easy to maintain it, thus giving around 10 pips of regen to the whole team in burts of 2 seconds. This is why there is only one healing monk.

7. For targets that are evading/blocking rigor is used.

8. For hard targets like warriors or rangers (they have atleast 100AL vs fire dmg), weaken armor will be used.

Any other questions?

jules · Nov 13, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

1. 4 of the 5 rangers are doing Fire damage only (1 beast 4 spring), thus winnowing does nothing

I was under the impression that ignite adds fire damage on top of they physical damage that bows give you, and kindle converts all your damage to fire. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Great post, by the way...

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3lk0r

Edit: Check this thread: clicky!

PS: I'm sorry if such linking is frowned upon, but that is a power post.

Wow that's a great read.

Falrow · Nov 13, 2005, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Yes, that seems right about ignite.

On that note, ignite could be used with Orders if you wanted, but I think the lingering build would be more powerfull then the order one because of symbiosis and enchant removal. Also an order team with 5 rangers would be doing to much damage.

It would be great if someone could confirm that ignite acts like that (works with orders).

Thanks, I'm just helping the comunity with what I know.

M3lk0r · Nov 13, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Oh I did not notice that you had switched to a kindle spike, my bad on that. But in doing so you do realise that there are more possible counters compared to an oders spike.

Eonwe · Nov 14, 2005, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morty

Why? Doesn't that lessen the bonus from Read the Wind? Even shortbows are easy enough to dodge. Putting RtW on a flatbow seems like using Obsidian Flesh on a runner.

You're going to land about 99% of your arrows due to the speed buff from Read the Wind. It's just about impossible to dodge, seriously.

Falrow · Nov 14, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Like what? What kind of common counters could I see?

For one shields up won't work as well.

Eonwe · Nov 14, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Honestly you need the orders if you want to be effective, since that's where most of your damage comes from. Just get rid of kindle all together.

Falrow · Nov 14, 2005, 01:18 AM // 01:18

You could do the math if you want, but it's minimally lower. And if 5 spikers it's really not that much of a problem. Problem is losing your flow or having the enemy stop you with enchants.

Using linger on every spike stops this.

Eonwe · Nov 14, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

I wouldn't say it's minimal, with both orders, and assuming all of the rangers are using RtW (which they should be) you'll be losing out on 195 armor ignoring damage from the orders.

Falrow · Nov 14, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

They are using kindle, we would have to switch from wilderness to use RtW, and RtW doesn't work right with FW.

So I opted for a Kindle + lingering build instead of RtW + Orders. I'm using 5 rangers to make up the damage, and they are using Healing Spring to make up for the lack of a healer.

GWGuru · Nov 14, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Like Eonwe said in his first post Kindle Arrow is going to turn your damage into elemental damage and thus Orders won't do any more damage. He also stated that RtW and Favorable Winds don't stack properly. After reading his post on another website I decided to run the same test for myself at both 0 marksmanship and at 16 marksmanship and he is in fact correct in that RtW and FW do not stack damage properly.

However if you really wanted to run a Kindle spike you could try

Conjure Flame
Kindle Arrow
Dual Shot
Savage Shot
Punishing Shot
Favorable Winds

Note: Winnowing doesn't stack with Kindle Arrow

use a 5/-1 vamp Bow with this spike. You can do some really good damage and the build doesn't rely on an order necro. I'm not going to say which spike is better...if you're interested try them both and find out.

You could also look into using Winter and then putting Spinal Shivers onto your target just before you spike him. Spinal Shivers will turn all of your shots into interupts. Or you could even try to run a 5 man ranger spike with 3 spikers and two rangers running Spinal Shivers(supplied by the necro of course) + Winter and just plinking the monks so they don't have a chance to heal. There is still a lot of room to work with Ranger Spike teams. The build that most people run isn't anywhere close to the best Spike a ranger could put out.

tomcruisejr · Nov 14, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

heres a thought.

2 monks, 5 bow rangers and 1 spirit ranger.

6 rangers will have the frost armor

___________

bow ranger

conjure frost
whirling defense
dual shot
savage shot
etc..

___________

spirit ranger

greater conflag
winter
healing spring
mantra of frost
arcane mimicry
etc

___________

monks

mantra of frost

the usual heal prot spells

1 monk carry oathshot

____________

sounds like a plan?

Falrow · Nov 15, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

One monk oath one monk mantra?

Also, greater and mantra of frost will be taken out preatty quick with any good team.

Could be preatty powerfull tho. Just have to get a way to recharge greater, or place is such that the other team can't get to it without getting out of monks.

Maybe I'll try that, thanks