Curse

xenoranger · Dec 18, 2005, 07:04 AM // 07:04

My MM Skill Set

General Attack
- Rotting Flesh
- Spiteful Spirit
- Suffering
Minion Mastery
- Verata's Gaze
- Malign Intervention
- Animate Bone Minions
- Verata's Sacfricice
- Verata's Aura

First off, the first 3 are my general attack skills.

So, I have this other wannabe that has all 3 Verata skills. He doesn't keep Verata's Gaze equipped. Near the end of "The Wilds", I see a whole lotta friendly Bone creatures turn on us. As it turns out, he let his Verata's Aura lapse and wasn't paying attention. A Lvl 20 N/Mo has the Verata skills and has no freakin' clue how to use them. What' the heck is wrong with this picture?

I finally had to use Verata's Aura and maintain my Aura to prevent further "mishaps" Considering between the two of us, there were over 30 onscreen bone creatures (""ON SCREEN"" = key words), a party of 4 (we had some drops) isn't going to stand a long time against those odds. (it was a pretty even mix of horrors @ lvl 17 and minions @ lvl 12)

Bottom line, is it just me, or is this guy the dumbest MM you can get? What kinda MM uses Aura for just 1 creature?

I even told him, use Verata's Gaze for 1-3, and 4+ requires Aura (depending on the lvl).

Urgh....
At least the mission was completed.

Silmor · Dec 19, 2005, 02:05 AM // 02:05

The Wilds has no opposing minionators, so taking Verata's Gaze/Aura in the first place is retarded - it's a problem you create for yourself by bringing Malign Intervention. Why aren't you just plucking minions out of corpses after death? The only reason I can think of is because you're hurting for energy pretty badly. If you've actually been rushed to Droknar before doing the wilds, go with Offering of Blood as elite, take some moderate blood spec and you'll have no problems casting 25e raises as fast as they recharge; using the blood spec you can take along Blood Ritual to support your backup, and if you're really afraid of any damage you could even take Dark Bond.

If you need any damaging skills to get corpses started, take Deathly Swarm or something, don't waste three slots on stuff that doesn't help you anymore once you get an army going that just walses over everything. If you insist on using Curses skills, at least go with something like Barbs which will help you kill bosses more easily using your minions. Ofcourse that's completely overkill for level 20 bosses like you'd find in the Wilds, but that's that.

Where's Blood of the Master in this build? At some point your corpses are going to be degen'ing at 10 pips period, regardless of whether or not you use Verata's Sacrifice, and Blood of the Master is the only thing that can keep them alive at that point.

"Urgh..." MM wannabe indeed.

Permasiel · Dec 19, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

I'd agree with the previous poster...
Focus on what you should be doing (making minions and ensuring their survival) and do it well and it'll be enough.

1. Animate Bone Fiends
2. Animate Bone Minions
3. Taste of Death
4. Blood of the Master
5. Verrata's Sacrifice
6. Heal Area
7. Strip Enchantment
8. Rez Sig

16 Death, 8 Healing, 11 SR

Strip Ench is there for the pesky mark of protection in GF/SF.
Who said you need to bring an elite anyway

And yeah, it's the build I use for FA/SF farming.

Hockster · Dec 19, 2005, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Am I the only one that uses Awaken? I like the +2 bonus.

pagansaint · Dec 19, 2005, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Awaken doesn't affect Death Magic.

BBoy_Manchild · Dec 19, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

this is my oro farming mm build with a nice little DSL crapping out on me glitchy effect

others might not like it, but it has yet to fail me

Grimm · Dec 19, 2005, 11:57 AM // 11:57

That's the weirdest "minion master" build I've seen. I think if you want to do minions, you should concentrate on minions, as if you do it right, it's a full time job. If you have a party with you, there's no need for attack skills as they just take energy away from your main job: raising minions as fast as you can and keeping them alive as long as you can. There is no reason for Verata's Aura or Gaze there at all unless you die and want to retake your minions. And having more than one minion necro is just dumb unless you're doing a suicide minion team in Tombs or GvG. You'll just fight over corpses and won't have any more minions up than you could alone. I can have at least 30 up depending on the area and how many fleshy enemies are around.

My minion build (and minions are my specialty):
bone horror
bone minions
bone fiend
taste of death
verata's sacrifice
offering of blood
blood of the master
res

death 16
soul reaping 10
blood 9-10

I have a 20/20 death staff with a death wrapping (10% chance).

Hockster · Dec 19, 2005, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

Awaken doesn't affect Death Magic.

Heh. At 3Am I was thinking of my curses necro. Gotta quit posting fom work.

xenoranger · Dec 19, 2005, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

The Wilds has no opposing minionators, so taking Verata's Gaze/Aura in the first place is retarded - ...

Actually, you're missing the point. The other guy kept using Verata's Aura. I only keep Malign Intervention to lessen healing. To be honest, I'm never at a loss for Energy b/c M.I. requires less to raise a creature and I only use it when they heal a lot. Otherwise, my main raising of choice is minions. The number means more targets, and the AI seems to favor attacking the minions first (over PC's).

I only keep Verata's Aura b/c I always get some other noob who dies and their minions turn against the party. If you call having a back up plan being a wannabe, I'd like to hear your suggestion. Especially since in the Wilds, I've managed to raise and maintain a max of 24 bone creatures (mostly minions)for 2-3 min.

N E Rate...
I've read the "official MM Build", and as well as it may work for some, I rather enjoy my build b/c it allows massive armies and with attentiveness, Malign Intervention isn't a problem.

mortalis doleo · Dec 19, 2005, 02:44 PM // 14:44

what i normally use:
1. bone fiend
2. bone minion/horror
3. vereta's sacrifice
4. vereta's aura
5. blood of the master / echo <e>
6. death nova
7. taste of death
8. res sig

you can have your precious fiends, but it's much cooler to use taste of death on your 4 death nova'd melee minions

Bane of Mortality · Dec 19, 2005, 03:00 PM // 15:00

There are alot of stupid MM out there. ONe time when I guildie was doing a PvE mission a teammate brought Verata's Aura. WHen my guildies asked why he said it was for enchantments (what's that supposed to mean?).

Another time when my guild was forming a MF group for Tombs a minion master asked to be in and said he knew the proper build. We invited him and once we started he made LEVEL FOURTEEN bone fiends. The other MM we had was making lvl 15 BONE HORRORS.

xenoranger · Dec 19, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

what i normally use:
1. bone fiend
2. bone minion/horror
3. vereta's sacrifice
4. vereta's aura
5. blood of the master / echo <e>
6. death nova
7. taste of death
8. res sig

you can have your precious fiends, but it's much cooler to use taste of death on your 4 death nova'd melee minions

I never use Rez Sig, but overall, I like your build. I only keep curses on b/c it makes it easier for me to attack incase I have to defend myself (IE: Villainy, there are too many swamp creatures that can't be made into minons).

I use minions and horrors over fiends mainly b/c fiends are nice but they cost 25 for 1 and don't do much more damage (from what I've seen) than horrors. And ofcourse, Death Nova rocks b/c with 15 in Death, I do 100 damage when they explode. Hence my suicide bomber build

Death nova
Taste of Death
Animate Bone Minions

I use Suicide Bomber for quick minion expendatures. Plus, it's also fun to watch them suckers go BOOM!.

N E Rate....
I understand that fiends are more like archers, but honestly, is there documentation showing that a fiend is better than a horror? If there is, I'd like to know b/c right now, I can't merit the cost.

And Malign Intervention is great b/c it does a -20% to all healing performed on target, plus it's a bone horror for 5 less energy than animate bone horror. Sure, you need to use Verata's Gaze/Aura to control it, but I find that if used on creatures a little further out of the fray, the masterless bone creature starts attacking them before rushing to kill your party. Overall, you have a little bit of time to worry about bonding with that one.

One thing I notice is that people don't pay attention to Aura. IMO, Aura should be a stance, but since it's an enchantment, I think too many take it for granted. That's why that one Necro (that I started the threat about) lost control of his army of bone creatures. I had to use Aura to control them. I dont' trust other necros that I haven't played with before.

Too many are stupid MM's.

Point in fact, I've never lost control of my army.

Silmor · Dec 19, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

Actually, you're missing the point. The other guy kept using Verata's Aura. I only keep Malign Intervention to lessen healing. To be honest, I'm never at a loss for Energy b/c M.I. requires less to raise a creature and I only use it when they heal a lot. Otherwise, my main raising of choice is minions. The number means more targets, and the AI seems to favor attacking the minions first (over PC's).

I'm totally in support of using Malign Intervention as an anti-heal (since it's a lot more pleasantly priced than say Defile Flesh), but it has no place whatsoever in a minion build because it either ruins a corpse or forces you to take additional skills to support it (typically Verata's Gaze) that are otherwise dead weight on your bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

I only keep Verata's Aura b/c I always get some other noob who dies and their minions turn against the party. If you call having a back up plan being a wannabe, I'd like to hear your suggestion. Especially since in the Wilds, I've managed to raise and maintain a max of 24 bone creatures (mostly minions)for 2-3 min.

Here's my suggestion: don't party with other minionators, and don't die yourself. A decent minionator has the means to turn every available corpse around into his own minions, which means that having a second minionator around is entirely redundant, and will actually lead to wasted energy when only one corpse is available and it's unclear which minionator gets to exploit it. In the Wilds, the very first open area you visit has around 30 low-level Moss Scarabs running around already, so if 24 bone creatures was your maximum you can't have been trying very hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

N E Rate...
I've read the "official MM Build", and as well as it may work for some, I rather enjoy my build b/c it allows massive armies and with attentiveness, Malign Intervention isn't a problem.

The "official build" (and I'm assuming you mean the PvP premade here or something) similarly allows for massive armies, and doesn't have to worry about introducing problems of its own, and therein lies the entire point. You bash someone else for playing a bad minion master, but defend playing a bad minion master yourself with the notion that basically it works well enough for you. Since you obviously don't strive to be the best minion master that you can be, what grounds do you have to criticize anyone else? Let that "noob" minion master use Verata's Aura on single bone horrors if he enjoys that, and you can continue enjoying your own gimp build; you're using a twinked character in the Wilds after all, it's not like PvE is going to punish you for underachievement at that point.

Crotalus · Dec 19, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

I never use Rez Sig

Why not? I have lost many missions because an Elite player such as yourself refuses to carry a rez signet or a rez of some type. Coming on this board and acknowledging that you don't makes you look like a n00b.

Please don't say that is reserverd for monks because they should not be resurrecting during the battle. The monks should be healing or protecting. Resurrecting during a battle should be done by someone besides the monks.

A second spent resurrecting someone in battle is a second lost healing. I have seen parties go from full health to arguing at the outpost in less that 8 seconds. After battle 'mop up' resurrections are fine for monks to do.

Bring a rez signet at the very least, Guild Wars player wannabe!

Sorry but not carrying a rez signet is a pet peeve of mine especially after losing quite a few missions because of an elite player.

gou · Dec 19, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

this one is straying a bit, keep it civil.

When playing MM pve I prefer to take well of power for my elite. The team benefits are obvious (especially when the first body to drop becomes a well), but also when you are raising after a fight you can stand in the center so the well will go some way towards healing your closest undead.
Slightly more energy, more raising time, less maintaining time.

Of course a nova bomber isn't going to be concerned with longevity, but I like to keep them going.

Sir Skullcrasher · Dec 19, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Without Minions Master, we won't be able to farm well! Keep up the good work.

fiery · Dec 19, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

alrite res sig for everyone in PVE..as for PVP monks dont bring it.. well thats how we do it for GVG and TOMBS...

as for level 15 horrors and minions at 18 death magic thats the highest level they go.. just brought beat sticks. than fiends.

pin · Dec 19, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Xenoranger I was with you on that mission (I was the ranger) and it wasn’t just at the end where minions were out of control. There were usually one or two that showed up as hostile and the warrior in the group was attacked by rogue minions. But I just wanted to say that I have never laughed so much during a mission before. The sight of all those minions was just hilarious. Having you two and your little companions there made that mission/bonus easy.

xenoranger · Dec 19, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

I'm totally in support of using Malign Intervention as an anti-heal (since it's a lot more pleasantly priced than say Defile Flesh), but it has no place whatsoever in a minion build because it either ruins a corpse or forces you to take additional skills to support it (typically Verata's Gaze) that are otherwise dead weight on your bar.....

It's good to see that someone understands the use of Malign Intervention. To be honest, the Horror that pops out is more of a bonus than a main reason for using it. Because it's masterless, it attacks the closest thing (which is usually another life pod or some creature that relies on healing a lot). Very few cases where I've lost my bone creatures to a Maligned one.

Y'know... you are correct, I am bashing his style. But it's not the skills that I'm critizing, it's how he was using them. I mean, NEVER use verata's Aura to control small numbers. If you have a huge army and you use Aura to catch a few stragglers, you're only creating a problem for later. I mean, honestly, can you give a good reason that I should use Aura instead of Gaze to control 1-3 loose bone creatures? That's the problem I had with his style of play.

And the official "Ready made" build( http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ster-id715.php ) assumes you're only going to be fighting to raise minions. My build considers that you may come up against rock or other non-flesh creatures and have to support your teammates. Sure, I could sub the verata skills, but I also keep those on b/c I've needed them in the past to control hostile bone creatures. I mainly built my version to survive Villainy of Galrath, but find it works VERY well elsewhere.

Crotalus:
I never keep a Rez Sig b/c I prefer to reserve that slot of other abilities. Yes, I do rely on monks quite a bit for that, but a 1 time use skill (no matter what it is) seems like a waste to me. I know how handy Rez Sig can be in a critcal battle, but that's why I try to take at least 2-3 people with Mo as one of their classes.

Stupid... probably. I just know that I don't die often (at least, not with the groups I've been in) unless 2+ players really get stupid. (IE: Pulling a Leroy Jinkin's)

Gou:
Ain't got Well of Power yet. Hunting for it though =p

Pin:
Yeah.. I think there was close to 40 at once if not more.

Misc_______

Not going to read back, but whoever said that you shouldn't have 2 MM's in a mission is correct. Infact, I've found it's not good to have more than 1 necro in a group. I always get someone that makes wells when minions would be more helpful or minions when wells are more helpful. It often becomes a race to see who can get whatever out quickest.

Silmor · Dec 20, 2005, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

And the official "Ready made" build( http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ster-id715.php ) assumes you're only going to be fighting to raise minions. My build considers that you may come up against rock or other non-flesh creatures and have to support your teammates. Sure, I could sub the verata skills, but I also keep those on b/c I've needed them in the past to control hostile bone creatures. I mainly built my version to survive Villainy of Galrath, but find it works VERY well elsewhere.

Why would you ever stick with one build throughout the game? Every quest and mission is different, be it because of fluctuations of monster density, extended parts without corpses, disenchantments, extensive AoE, consistent interrupts, etc. Depending on what you face and who you face it with, you determine what sort of build you're going to take that's optimally tailored to the challenge - you know exactly what to expect from PvE missions, so there's no excuse for not using this knowledge to your advantage.

For instance, you don't take a minion master into Vulture's Drifts or Arid Sea. A significant portion of this map consists of Enchanted Bows/Hammers/Swords and there are long periods between encounters, so even if your minions can offer some moderate assistance besides that you're much more valuable using a blood support or curses debuff/offense build and leaving the MM skills at home. In Sorrow's Furnace your raises are prone to interruption from Savage Shot or Cry of Frustration, so you adjust your bar to take Mantra of Resolve or Mantra of Concentration along, and since you probably have room for it you can take along a Power Drain to simultaneously fuel your raises and stop the Resurrect from Priests, or the Well of Suffering from Dark Binders (which can be pretty nasty to your minions besides stealing a corpse from you). Your character is more than one build containing 8 skills, you've got around 150 potential skills to choose from (and more if you're capable of switching secondaries) so why not make the best use of them?