Curse

xenoranger · Dec 20, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

I don't stick with just one build. I switch between the MM build (for areas with dense, flesh based monsters) and the plague build (all Degen and skills that disable the enemy). But, I keep MM by default until I get into areas where I notice it's not working very well. Mainly b/c in PvE, just sit back and let the Minions do the work.

Either way, I'm by no means going to assume that MM works everywhere. In Southern Shiver, I find Plague works better. Mainly b/c the Azure shadows, Jade armors, and other creatures are to powerful and not fleshbased to use minions against.

Yes, 150 skills. I use more than just Minion related ones, so I hope you don't think that I just ignore the fact that monster TYPE and spacing plays a hand in the choice of builds.

judge1121 · Dec 20, 2005, 01:44 PM // 13:44

the point of res is not that u die often. U can die as many times as u want and if u dont die a lot that means u DO need it. wat do u think would happen if ur whole team dies and like u said u stay alive. well u either try to do it by urself or u restart. a res skill should always be brought and if all else u should replace it with suffering.

xenoranger · Dec 20, 2005, 02:19 PM // 14:19

I could replace suffering for it....but....
Mainly, I have 1 throwaway skill. I could use Rez when I'm not skill capping.

To be honest, I'd rather dump Verata's Aura (when I'm not going against other MM's). Still, y'gotta know your place in battle. Necros & Mesmers seem to be the weakest of the casters. As such, I try to stay out of the fight and distance myself from combat. When I expect to have to get my hands dirty, it's Physical Resistance (or Elemental, depending on the area & monsters).

Fitting Rez into a set where I use most is quite difficult. Aura, I can toss (but keep gaze, since there's always a chance an enemy will die while using Malign to lessen healing).

BTW...
Malign lessens healing, so do a few other necro skills, but thye also require a sacrifice. I think Defile Flesh requires a 20% total health sacrifice, and only lasts 18 sec. But it does reduce the healing to 66%.

Honestly, the sacrificial skills are the ones that need to be balanced. Maybe in PvP, they're great, but in PvE, I find so many monks forget to heal others besides the warriors. Point in Fact, I realized I'm the only monk I've seen that actually heals pets. 8 Sec w/o skills can be rough, yet so many bring pets into battle and just don't support them. That's what makes pets a liability. With a Mo/R, I find that keeping Mending on my pet helps quite a bit. Then I don't use any other high maintainence enchantments.

Little off topic, but still, my point is that I find too many players that just don't Monk correctly. THey heal the warriors first, even if they're near full health and other partymembers are low. Otherwise, I'd have no issue with using sacrificial skillz (besides the Verata ones).

N E Rate...
Bottom line, I think balancing a Necro primary is very difficult. There are just too many that do it wrong and there are many uses for it b/c of it's status effects and afflictions. From what I've seen, I manage (not going to say I'm great, but I manage). There is only 1 other necro I've played with that understands the skill set. Others either sacrifice themselves to death or are minor minion masters. The reason I say minor is because that's all they do. Minions. Half the time, you have a high level Necro managing lvl 8 horrors. It's just stuff like this that pisses me off.

No, I'm not the best, and I'm admitting it before someone else decides to point it out, but I wish people would take more time to study the available skills before assembling their build. That's what upsets me most.

And the thread starter...
I still stand by saying, "What kinda fool uses Verata's Aura to pick up a few stragglers?" It's Verata's Gaze, not Aura that picks up 1-3.

If someone thinks I'm wrong in saying that, please make a case, b/c I'd like to know if there's a better way to control stragglers.

Hockster · Dec 20, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27

I pretty much stick to one build. Full MM on one accout aand a full curses build on the other account.

An echoed level 19 cast of SS is just plain mean.

judge1121 · Dec 20, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

well rember too that this is PVE so anyone can do wat they want. so if monks want to bring pets then let them. u also say that u bring characters with monk in their proffesion. well u can take as many of those as u want but it doesnt mean they are defensive. maybe they smite so it wouldnt be of good use to u.
u dont mention soul reaping so i dont know how u are getting ur energy back. and if it is high then u have low curses. with low curses there is no need to have suffering. it is a lot of energy and it may be aoe but rotting flesh is good enough. and since if tell u to take out suffering then take tainted flesh as ur elite cause u shouldn't have attribute points for 1 skill (unless is really really needed like energy drain or OoB) and SS is not really needed tainted might be better because it stops the disease from going in to ur team.
u can have as many necros as u want just that they dont overlap on what they are doing. u can have 1 necro who blood spikes and one MM and they dont overlap skills and dont overlap what they are doing as in they both dont depend on corpses and they both dont do massive degen where it goes far beyond 10.

xenoranger · Dec 20, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Hmm....

BTW. I have major runes and items boosting my levels. I have 15 Death, and 8 Soul Reaping (I think curses is about 10.. but not sure off hand).

judge1121,
The reason I keep Suffering is because it works on every thing. I'd rather get rid of Rotting Flesh b/c there are patches where I have nightmare/shadow/whatever's that arent' flesh based. I try to keep 2 attack curses that are not flesh based and Rotting flesh rocks for it's ability to spread.

I don't have tainted flesh yet (but working on getting it). So many elites I want, but don't have.

Yes, in PvE, players can do quite a bit of what they want, but in harder missions (and when you have minion masters) it is my opinion that you need to have players being responsible for any liabilities they bring to battle. I've actually seen minions take out most of my group (not mine) in other missions. It's very upsetting when you're almost done and someoen looses control.

Either way, I don't PvP. Not my idea of fun. Sure, some enjoy it, but I like working with people, not against (and I know you can PvP w/ your guild, but I jsut prefer the more lax PvE).

Oh well.

judge1121, Thank you for your insight, and I'll keep it in mind as I venture further.

Vesital · Dec 20, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

A lot of you are using more than one summon spell. I personally only use one. Then my skills are:

Blood of the Master
Verata's Sacrifice
Offering of Blood

Those are the most important skills in my opinion. If your doing SF runs, just throw in some skills like Deathly swarm, chill, and strip enchantment. If its for missions and such, use taste of death as a means of keeping yourself alive. A MM build rocks if you simply concentrate on only making and keeping minions

xenoranger · Dec 20, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

The problem is that on missions, I avoid sacrifices of HP.

Again, as my previous statement, you get too many monks that focus on healing the Warriors and meatshields more than the MM's or other necros. It's frustrating to get surrounded while outta corpses, so you can't use Soul Feast or anything else to self heal, then you get jakked by 3+ giants dealing major damage (for your level). In cases like that, sacrifices suck.

Except for recently, I usually keep Physical Resistance (Stance) equipped. It's nice for when I have to endure my way outta a jam b/c of bad healers.

Really, I haven't seen many monks that play healer very well. They forget the little things. Healing minions, healing pets, and (most important) supporting EVERYONE in the frickin' party.

People say, don't blame the monks, well, when you know there's a necro that has to sacrifice to perform some useful skills (or support minions), you should kinda keep them in mind. Especially when they're low and notifying you that they have 50 HP left.

URGH....
I like my Guild though (Point Blank Shot - PBS). We have a great monk (not me) that actually heals in the right priority.

Hockster · Dec 20, 2005, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Again, as my previous statement, you get too many monks that focus on healing the Warriors and meatshields more than the MM's or other necros

That's why it's best to just use henchies. They don't run ahead, they don't complain about the pace, and they'll even heal your minnions once in a while. As dumb as the hechies are, they're still smarter than 98% of the people, and nicer than 99%.

Vesital · Dec 20, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

I understand the healing thing, it can be annoying when your sacing yourself to death and the monk doesn't notice. Bad healer, bad! (shakes news paper).

However, you shouldn't be taking much damage in battle. You are a minion master! Let your miniond do there job, while you run back out of the battle. Then move in to res once all the enemies are dead.

If you do insist on being in the midst of things, bring Dark Bond and say bye bye to 75% of your recieved damage.

xenoranger · Dec 20, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockster

That's why it's best to just use henchies. They don't run ahead, they don't complain about the pace, and they'll even heal your minnions once in a while. As dumb as the hechies are, they're still smarter than 98% of the people, and nicer than 99%.

Except when it's like my Henchies don't talk thread =p.
Serious though, You are correct, Hench dont' complain, and they are more helpful than 90% of the Mo's out there and nicer than 99%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufu Vesital

Bad healer, bad! (shakes news paper).

ROFL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufu Vesital

I understand the healing thing, it can be annoying when your sacing yourself to death and the monk doesn't notice.

However, you shouldn't be taking much damage in battle. You are a minion master! Let your miniond do there job, while you run back out of the battle. Then move in to res once all the enemies are dead.

Honestly, I do. But there always seems to be a reason to move which attacts unwanted attention. Still. I generally (as a Mo or N) stay at the furthest point I can while still supporting the party

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufu Vesital

If you do insist on being in the midst of things, bring Dark Bond and say bye bye to 75% of your recieved damage.

Yes, that is a very useful skill. Have used it in the past, but I think it's better in conjunction with Death Nova. Still, the Minions suck b/c they don't last very long if you have Dark Bond on.

N E Rate...
This is some good stuff here. Interested to see if anymore constructive comments can be offered.

labsenpai · Dec 20, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

Really, I haven't seen many monks that play healer very well. They forget the little things. Healing minions, healing pets, and (most important) supporting EVERYONE in the frickin' party.

The N/Mos I see with Heal Area never ask me to cure their corpse creations.
Personally, if I team with a Necro that is solely focused on damage output, his healing priority just dropped a notch. The whole "killing faster" strategy is moot if you don't have that one support skill when you need it. Necros have beautiful skills for party survival...which from the view of a healer, outweigh their offensive ones. I go Mo/N just to enjoy a Demonic Flesh-powered Infuse Health combo on occasion.

BBoy_Manchild · Dec 20, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

i think its smarter to add curses to make your summons do more damage, your summons will do crappy damage to warrior bosses and monk bosses so barbs and weaken armor makes them drop fast, and i have SS to go along with another echo SS on my team, 3 fast SS on 3 seperate targets is a fast dying mob

judge1121 · Dec 20, 2005, 10:17 PM // 22:17

also although i may think they get responsible some dont. remember in pve is basically anything and if a monk/ranger likes to have his pet around all the time even though it dies or takes up time healing or w/e. if u want to be a true MM then u should focus on death more than anything and soul to get energy back for casting more minions.
about ur PVE comment. u may say that now but trust me. there isnt a lot to do with the game once u did a whole bunch of it. So in sometime or another u will go to pvp and find the relaxing times of killing other ppl

also wat do u expect from pve monks. they are getting used to how to heal and how to prot. u cant just have him come out of nowhere as a genious, (except if they played monk b4 in other games, although that just gives basic knowledge)
also is not real good to have to majors. since u pve im guessing u dont have enough money to get a superior vigor so that is realy down on hp. also if u want to stay in curses i guess u shopuld take shadow of fear. this is one of my favorites skills cause it doesnt require a lot of curses to do a lot. at 3 curses is 25 secs so this can also be used to help u when getting pummeled by minotaurs and other physical type atkers

xenoranger · Dec 21, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Got my stats...
Death: 15
Curses: 10
Soul Reaping: 8

Rune and armor enhanced.. but it works very well.

Currently.. hunting for Well of Power, Defiled Flesh, and any other elite that might help

Y.T. · Dec 21, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Not going to read back, but whoever said that you shouldn't have 2 MM's in a mission is correct. Infact, I've found it's not good to have more than 1 necro in a group. I always get someone that makes wells when minions would be more helpful or minions when wells are more helpful. It often becomes a race to see who can get whatever out quickest.[/QUOTE] by xenoranger

such an ignorant assumption. if only thing u can do as necro is to use bodies as wells or sources for minions - yes, dont take more than 1 necro. and dont play necro at all. othervise - if u're able to talk with ur teammates be4 entering the mission/area - 3-4 necros are better than 3-4 echo nukers (be4 anet nerfed aoe skills) - more damage done, less damage taken. and i'm not going to explaing to u why cos its too obvious to explain

btw - healing ur minions is ur job. u can ask politely if ur monks can bring heal area for ur minions, but they dont have to do it.

xenoranger · Dec 21, 2005, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y.T.

btw - healing ur minions is ur job. u can ask politely if ur monks can bring heal area for ur minions, but they dont have to do it.

Not true.

SUre, Necros should heal their own minions, but in areas of high enemy density, if the minions are low, as my Monk, I heal them also. Stratigically, it's better for the party to keep animals & Minions healthy if the party isn't suffering.

Y.T. · Dec 21, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

Not true.

SUre, Necros should heal their own minions, but in areas of high enemy density, if the minions are low, as my Monk, I heal them also. Stratigically, it's better for the party to keep animals & Minions healthy if the party isn't suffering.

there are alot of nice monks, and yes they definitely can do it. but again - they dont have to, so dont even try to blame smbdy cos they decided not to heal ur minions.... considering that u said

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

Serious though, You are correct, Hench dont' complain, and they are more helpful than 90% of the Mo's out there and nicer than 99%.

prolly u was just rude to ur monks. basically they're covering party's mistakes, and judging from ur build u're making enough mistakes too, so dont try to blame monks for it

after all nobody's perfect - if u're so good at planning mis how u managed to enter the mis with 2 mm at the 1st place... and making long story short u're trying to convince evr1 that ur build was nice and his/her build was noobish, i think u both were .... khm dont like to use this N word but u got the idea

but overall i like the thread cos many mm posted their builds and some are really nice.

Manic Smile · Dec 21, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

Not going to read back, but whoever said that you shouldn't have 2 MM's in a mission is correct. Infact, I've found it's not good to have more than 1 necro in a group. I always get someone that makes wells when minions would be more helpful or minions when wells are more helpful. It often becomes a race to see who can get whatever out quickest.

Just make sure the other nec doesn't have wells...my blood is pure damage and my SS, neither uses corpses at all.

xenoranger · Dec 21, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y.T.

considering that u said prolly u was just rude to ur monks. basically they're covering party's mistakes, and judging from ur build u're making enough mistakes too, so dont try to blame monks for it

I'm not rude to other players. I basically don't say anything unless I have to.

Before Missions, I request all with an Mo (prim or sec) to equip atleast 1 healing and a Rez. Beyond that, it's just calling out what I'm attacking or doing (IE: if I'm using a sacrifice, I call it so they dont' think I'm being attacked b/c I'm loosing life).

Trust me.. I've monked quite a bit since starting my 2nd char. It sucks. As a monk, I find that W/Mo's are the hardest to keep alive. They rush into battle with so little health and assume you're going to keep them healed. Even after I've healed the rest of the party and removed any lingering hexes or conditions. It really sucks.

As a necro, I think I might go back to my SS build at this point. Unless I'm the highest in the party (or with people I know) I might just go back to my SS build b/c I know how to run curses like nobody's business. (actually a stronger build for me than playing a MM)