Curse

UberRusty · Oct 05, 2005, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

If your a monk and you have 16 divine favor, I would proceed to kick you from my group.

*you're.

smurfhunter · Oct 05, 2005, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by knives

Heal Touch
Orison
Heal Seed
Dwaynas Kiss
Heal Other/WoH

well that would explain alot.

Red Locust · Oct 05, 2005, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

That's the old mantra. That spell was updated long ago, it's actually better now. You don't need Contemplation if you don't want it, you still net the energy whether you end it, it times out, or someone strips it.

Yeah, I was referring more to the fact that running mantra of recall without CoP would be a very poor choice. When you need energy in a jam, you don't want to burn 10e. upfront and wait almost half a minute to get anything back. If I ever ran recall, I'd certainly run contemplation as well.

Patrograd · Oct 05, 2005, 07:01 AM // 07:01

I find that this glyph/divine spirit build works really well......as long as things are going well and your team is on top (in 8 v 8 terms, its a nice 4 v 4 build). however, as soon as things start going wrong and the pressure is on you from mesmers or just in general it starts to fall apart pretty badly. If the spirit gets ripped/interrupted you are in trouble. If you get your energy drained you are in trouble, especially if that happens with the team under pressure as it will take a long, long time for you to regain the energy to recast the combo.

In 4 v 4 you are unlikely to come up against much in the way of enchant removals, and it works much better, but i wouldnt recommend it for tombs or GvG.

it also seems to me as if the divine spirit skill is slightly bugged, which is a known issue I think. It seems that with this effect on healing skills sometimes (rarely its true) just dont work, and on other rare occasions the game miscalculates the energy cost and counts it as if the spirit wasnt on.

Dont Look At My · Oct 05, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

"When an 'amazingly good' build only works on Random Arena, I would overthink it again, because it might be that it just suckz."

pagansaint · Oct 05, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

This thread is sad, too many e-toughs, and not enough constructive discussion.

I love blanket statements, especially in this game, where creativity and trying new ideas, or changing old ideas is the only way to get new builds. Lets ridicule someone who is making a build and maxes out its primary attribute for his/her main skill line and tell them, "No, you are an idiot, I'd kick you for that because only I know how to play this game!" That makes alot of sense.

And Dont do you ever actually say anything constructive or are you only online to sit in front of the monitor, typing with one hand while getting off at spouting irrelevant and shallow attacks on a videogame's forums?

I take it no one else saw the Go out there and dominate that comp arena remark?

This is made for near infinite mana with decent armor enchants to do just that, farm faction in comp arena. In that regard it works rather well due to the fact there is not heavy enchant removal nor well coordinated teamwork that would kill this off real quickly.

But with the prolific use of interrupt rangers now this build can run into problems just trying to tank.

Dont Look At My · Oct 05, 2005, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Well yey I am a bit obsessed you know, and it is just that I am such a bad player, I always leave the game after lets say 40wins started from random arena (3-4 of them non-flawless) and I only got to hold the HoH several times, but well.

You know whats the point? I'm trying to do something constructive, but as lods of guys are stupid like you, they dont understand what I post, so dont worry about it, but there have been a few guys PMing me and asking for help, they always got a decent answer and it helped them a lot.

Now if you're really honest with yourself, and look at the posts, you only tell by what people write, that most of them dont really have a clue of the game.

pagansaint · Oct 05, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

I will agree with you that alot of the people don't have the complete grasp of how certain skills will combine most efficiently, but I wasn't talking about that to you, your attitude about someone being sarcastic, it makes you look like you don't get it and then get mad because of the lack.

Wow! You've really gotten 40 wins before? AND held HoH?! Can I have your autograph? Maybe I can buy one of your customized weapons as a collectors piece??

Get over yourself.

The point is you post completely unhelpful crap that is an attack on another. You think you can prove you know most about the game because you make fun of someone? LoL.

UberRusty · Oct 05, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Guys, there's another overpowered skill combo that has been around forever, and will never get nerfed. This guarantees an instant win. Let's switch the debate from this Divine Spirit shit.

Mending + Rebirth. If you don't carry these two skills, you will not win.

rii · Oct 05, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

OMG FTW HOWS Did I n0t think of th4t!!!!
your so 1337...............

AtomicMew · Oct 05, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

knives, your reasoning is weak. You don't need to have divine spirit up all the time for this build to work. Heck, you don't even have to reserve any energy for it to work. All you need is a weapon switch.

Also, it's not really 2 seconds every 15 seconds - it's more like every 30 seconds. Because frankly, if you actually need that amount of spamming power just to stay above water, you're probably shi*ed anyway. Let's be clear: divine spirit/renewal is not meant for you to be able to spike heal or spike protect more - it's meant purely for energy management. Same reason people take offering of blood, but you don't see anyone calling this skill crap, do you? The major difference between the two is that DS/GoR is a couple factors more effective. Honestly, I don't see any better energy management skill in the game at the moment.

smurfhunter · Oct 06, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

/yawn

Zeru · Oct 06, 2005, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Divine Spirit/Glyph of Renewal is really not that good.

It's efficient and crazy useful if you're left alone because you can just spam spam spam really crappy heal spells or meh prot spells.

But if you're hexed/stripped/edenied gg because you're going to be near useless for too long. If you have a necro running blood ritual or bip then things would seem better. But why would you bother with divine spirit then? Too risky and the payoff isn't really that great. Divine boon and 10 energy spells are really too important to be ignored.

Oh and 16 DF gives 51 healing per spell as it's 3.2 not 3. As for 16 DF on a monk being stupid *laughs*. The HP loss is no biggie and the gain on divine boon is huge. If you're running a DS setup not running 15/16 DF is stupid.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 06, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Thanks to the buff to Grenth's Balance {E}, there's some hot ideas a monk can wield...

Awaken the Blood
Blood Ritual
Infuse Health

Grenth's Balance... Wa pow

Funny thing, it's recycle time makes it downright devastating.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Oct 06, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Yeah the buff to Grenth's Balance is a bit ridiculous now, was the lowering of the recharge to 10 seconds necessary?

smurfhunter · Oct 06, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Thanks to the buff to Grenth's Balance {E}, there's some hot ideas a monk can wield...

Awaken the Blood
Blood Ritual
Infuse Health

Grenth's Balance... Wa pow

Funny thing, it's recycle time makes it downright devastating.

its not as good as you think. in the extreme case, say you have 1 health and they have 500, you will gain the average or like 250 health, and he loses that much. and you cant spike with it because if your ever so slightly off timing it wont do anything. a one time damage of 250, doable ONLY when hes at full health seems... useless. idk. it seems more like a pve skill where you do it on a 'boss' or something. maybe if you combine it with other spiking... hmm...

and who doesnt wand random monks running around with 1 hp

UberRusty · Oct 06, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

OMG FTW HOWS Did I n0t think of th4t!!!!
your so 1337...............

If we had thinkers in this game, then people would realise using Mending + Rebirth is a devasting combo. It is THE combo to have. Doesn't even require an elite slot. Wow.

wheel · Oct 06, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Divine Spirit/Glyph of Renewal is really not that good.

It's efficient and crazy useful if you're left alone because you can just spam spam spam really crappy heal spells or meh prot spells.

But if you're hexed/stripped/edenied gg because you're going to be near useless for too long. If you have a necro running blood ritual or bip then things would seem better. But why would you bother with divine spirit then? Too risky and the payoff isn't really that great. Divine boon and 10 energy spells are really too important to be ignored.

Oh and 16 DF gives 51 healing per spell as it's 3.2 not 3. As for 16 DF on a monk being stupid *laughs*. The HP loss is no biggie and the gain on divine boon is huge. If you're running a DS setup not running 15/16 DF is stupid.

Divine Spirit is incredibly effective as it's simply an energy management tool just like BiP, OoB or the like. The argument against it that you used here is flawed in the fact that a *regular* monk would be in the same boat in most cases if they were hexed/stripped (of BiP)/edenied. Unlike other gimmick builds, this monk works just fine when Divine Spirit is stripped; because of the way it works, you'll more than likely be at 80-100% of your max energy when it's stripped.

As for it only enabling you to spam crappy healing spells, that's only true to an extent. Yes, to take advantage of its max efficiency, you're best off using 6 energy cost spells (which don't exist, so we'll go for the next best thing, 5 energy cost spells). With DS, you get a 80% reduced energy cost, allowing you to spam them all day long with no energy drop. Don't discount 10e spells though. They still have a reduced energy cost of 50%, nothing to laugh at.

Under Offering of Blood at 8, you gain 14 energy every 15 seconds. At 10, you gain 16 energy every 15 seconds.

OoB

46 + (4 pips / 3 pips per point of energy) * 15 seconds + 14 (or 16) = 80 (or 82) energy

8 casts of 10e spells

You would be at 0 (or 2) energy at the end of it

Compare that to Divine Spirit. Those 10e spells only cost 5e. That lets you spam them just as much as an orison or dwayna's. Under normal regen spamming only 10e spells during the 18 seconds of DS (we'll go with 15 seconds to allow plenty of time to recast Glyph and DS), you would be able to get off the following:

DS

46 + (4 pips / 3 pips per point of energy) * 15 seconds = 66 energy

5 to cast Glyph of Renewal
10 to cast Divine Spirit
8 casts of 5e spells
5 to recast Glyph of Renewal
5 to recast Divine Spirit

You would be at 1 energy at the end of the 15 seconds.

So what does that mean? It means that under Divine Spirit, not only can you spam 5 energy spells more efficiently than any other build around, you can equal Offering of Blood in spammability of 10e spells. Not only that, but since you don't have to spend points in Blood to get energy, you are more efficient in spamming 10e spells than Offering of Blood.

If you look at Booned 5e spells, the outlook is even bleaker for Offering of Blood, since under Divine Spirit, they cost 3e instead of 7e. Let's look and see what comes out on top.

OoB

46 + (4 pips / 3 pips per point of energy) * 15 seconds + 14 (or 16) = 80 (or 82) energy

11 casts of 7e spells

DS

46 + (4 pips / 3 pips per point of energy) * 15 seconds = 66 energy

5 to cast Glyph of Renewal
10 to cast Divine Spirit
13 casts of 3e spells
5 to recast Glyph of Renewal
5 to recast Divine Spirit

And finally, let's look at 5e spells.

OoB

46 + (4 pips / 3 pips per point of energy) * 15 seconds + 14 (or 16) = 80 (or 82) energy

16 casts of 5e spells

DS

46 + (4 pips / 3 pips per point of energy) * 15 seconds = 66 energy

5 to cast Glyph of Renewal
10 to cast Divine Spirit
40 casts of 1e spells (impossible due to cast time limitations)
5 to recast Glyph of Renewal
5 to recast Divine Spirit

Divine Spirit is much more efficient than OoB in casting 5e spells, but it's on equal footing for 7e and 10e spells as well.

rii · Oct 06, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Well, just to let you know, whenever i use oob i have fast recharge items for blood, so its not 15s all the time. Sometimes you bang one out like...... every 5s or something :S

Monks get rended. Whats the point.

wheel · Oct 06, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

Well, just to let you know, whenever i use oob i have fast recharge items for blood, so its not 15s all the time. Sometimes you bang one out like...... every 5s or something :S

Monks get rended. Whats the point.

On the subject of fast cast items for blood, it's not going to make that big of a difference in the long run to make it better than Glyph of Renewal/Divine Spirit for energy management of Booned 5e and 10e spells. That and the fact that Offering of Blood is completely overshadowed when it comes to 5e or Booned 5e skills in efficiency versus GoR/DS

The fact that a counter exists to this does not mean that it's not overpowered. Because Signet of Humility (or any other number of counters for OoB) exists, does that mean that Offering of Blood is useless? No. "But there's a counter!!!" was a common argument used against the nerf for Ether Renewal. Same thing applies here. Rend the enchantments. Except here, it's less of a problem because you get the Divine Spirit back every 15 seconds instead of 30 seconds like ether renewal, so it's less of a counter. That and the fact that you can survive easily those 15 seconds without your energy management skill.