Curse

Ruoenkruez Tudor · Sep 28, 2005, 04:24 AM // 04:24

ok heres my pvp build W/E

Backbreaker{E}
Mighty Blow
Irresitible Blow
Stagering Blow
Crushing Blow
Armor Of earth
Healing signet
Frenzy or SHield Stance or Sprint

16 hammer
7 tactics
9 earth
8 strength

485 health
25 energy

audioaxes · Sep 28, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

-lose the armor of the earth; warriors shouldnt be targeted til last and it will slow you down, unable to chase down fleeing targets (most ppl run from warriors if you havent noticed). Might as well get out of earth and the entire ele secondary if you aint using aftershock. Other secondary offhand skills like hex breaker can do wonders.
-i dont understand the staggering blow.... weakness wont really affect casters which are your main concern. It is however good for a heavy hammer combo but if you do that, you might as well sub out backbreaker for devastating also for a dev hammer -> crushing blow -> heavy hammer -> aftershock combo.
-You must be one of those warriors that makes me pull out my hair and doubt the future of humanity: get rid of the stupid healing sig and bring a res sig for God's sakes!

Esrever · Sep 28, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Devistating > Backbreaker. It's only a second shorter if your using Stonefists (which you should be) for three less adrenaline. On that note, Hammer Bash > Heavy Hammer as a follow up knockdown. It works unconditionally and does basically the same thing.

audioaxes · Sep 28, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

uh no it doesnt heavy hammer has damage bonus hammer bash doesnt

Serps · Sep 28, 2005, 05:32 AM // 05:32

I guess you'll have to weigh up the benefits of +1..24 damage vs knockdown even if weakness is removed.

Eonwe · Sep 28, 2005, 05:40 AM // 05:40

I'll also agree that Bash > Heavy Blow. Conditional knockdowns are for the most part, very rigid. If everytyhing doesn't go perfectly, you're left with a skill that's going to do absolutely nothing. If devastating if blocked/evaded, or if weakness is removed, you're not going to get the knockdown. Atleast with hammer bash, you have more utility and aren't bound to that weakness condition.

audioaxes · Sep 28, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

well thats why you do the heavy hammer quickly and if they try a mend ailment its a tad to long casting and theyll get knocked down while trying

and besides, heavy hammer loses all addren so you dont want be inefficient by wasting time at extra hits before you do the heavy hammer

Eonwe · Sep 28, 2005, 05:48 AM // 05:48

It's Heavy Blow first off all. Second off, the fact that devastating can be blocked/evaded still exists, which renders your whole knockdown chain uselss if it misses. There's also a strong possiblity of the monk getting cross heals, and once he sees the damage with (Heavy Blow) next to it, he'll be sure to tell his team mates to pull weakness as fast as possible.

I know that Heavy Blow makes you lose all adrenaline, Hammer Bash does that as well... but that is not relevant to the issue.

audioaxes · Sep 28, 2005, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Strong possibility that a second monk is going to remove weakness in between 2 hits? I beg to differ. And if you bring up cross heals then hammer bash wont do much better either so i guess this is besides the point. If someone made you miss your dev hammer then oh well start over... what ever kind of evade buff they had would more than likely still be in effect with a chance your hammer bash misses also. And what if you do hit your hammer bash after you miss your dev hammer? You still missed a vital part of your chain of hits and i doubt you'll do enough damage to finish off your monk. With your typical monk spamming RoF at the speed of light you need that overwhelming combo to break them through more so than the ability to randomly bash down people loosing all your addren when ever you want for a non critical hit and even if you add aftershock they get up on their merry way.
btw my opinions are based from and regards hammer warriors in 4v4 arenas

Savior Of Faith · Sep 28, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

Strong possibility that a second monk is going to remove weakness in between 2 hits? I beg to differ. And if you bring up cross heals then hammer bash wont do much better either so i guess this is besides the point. If someone made you miss your dev hammer then oh well start over... what ever kind of evade buff they had would more than likely still be in effect with a chance your hammer bash misses also. And what if you do hit your hammer bash after you miss your dev hammer? You still missed a vital part of your chain of hits and i doubt you'll do enough damage to finish off your monk. With your typical monk spamming RoF at the speed of light you need that overwhelming combo to break them through more so than the ability to randomly bash down people loosing all your addren when ever you want for a non critical hit and even if you add aftershock they get up on their merry way.
btw my opinions are based from and regards hammer warriors in 4v4 arenas

any decent team runs smite with kd as, and all smiters should have draw conditions which they spam continually anyways to trigger zealots, so whoever weakness is on will be taken off of very fast...

Gamesguy · Sep 28, 2005, 12:04 PM // 12:04

The main reason for hammer bash is the distinct possibility that your target may die or otherwise put up a block/evade before you can get heavy blow off. Hammer bash allows you to switch targets and still have a knockdown.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 28, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Use Hammer Bash. It's da bomb. Counter Blow is sometimes nifty due to the low Adrenaline [and if the caster is out of energy, they're sometimes wanding]...

Irresistable Blow > Heavy Blow...

However, if you wanted to be nutty on the Dias...

Earth Shaker + Crude Swing > all!

striderkaaru · Sep 28, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

interesting. a hammer w/e without aftershock.

as people have said, lose armor of earth and healing signet. that way, you can dump tactics and put those points somewhere else.

Meimei · Sep 28, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

nobody gives a hand on backbreaker? if you do it correctly you can kill a monk with 1 KD before it worn off

Bast · Sep 29, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Takes too long to charge and it's only a second longer knockdown than Devastating+Stonefists.

Meimei · Sep 29, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

Takes too long to charge and it's only a second longer knockdown than Devastating+Stonefists.

Then you have no idea how to use back breaker.
1 get 16 hammer
2 get a frenzy wand attack to charge up adrenaline
3 do not attack monk untill you are full charged because he will get prepared
4 attack him once and his health will get 85% and he is not that prepared
5 do frenzy > Backbreaker > Crushing > mighty > Irresistible. Any soft target will die before knockdown worn off at 85% health not consider critical and 100% health if 1 critical appears << IF >> your target is not getting heal/regen from others.
7. if soft target is armor weakend he just die in 4 hits in less then 4 secs. I've hit up to 162 with Irresistible blow who needs AS?? Maybe Frenzy > earth shaker > Crude Swing > Aftershock could be a different story in tomb/gvg but who knows.

tafy69 · Sep 29, 2005, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meimei

Then you have no idea how to use back breaker.
1 get 16 hammer
2 get a frenzy wand attack to charge up adrenaline
3 do not attack monk untill you are full charged because he will get prepared
4 attack him once and his health will get 85% and he is not that prepared
5 do frenzy > Backbreaker > Crushing > mighty > Irresistible. Any soft target will die before knockdown worn off at 85% health not consider critical and 100% health if 1 critical appears << IF >> your target is not getting heal/regen from others.
7. if soft target is armor weakend he just die in 4 hits in less then 4 secs. I've hit up to 162 with Irresistible blow who needs AS?? Maybe Frenzy > earth shaker > Crude Swing > Aftershock could be a different story in tomb/gvg but who knows.

lol u r too funny! wand ftw

Bast · Sep 29, 2005, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meimei

Then you have no idea how to use back breaker.
1 get 16 hammer
2 get a frenzy wand attack to charge up adrenaline
3 do not attack monk untill you are full charged because he will get prepared
4 attack him once and his health will get 85% and he is not that prepared
5 do frenzy > Backbreaker > Crushing > mighty > Irresistible. Any soft target will die before knockdown worn off at 85% health not consider critical and 100% health if 1 critical appears << IF >> your target is not getting heal/regen from others.
7. if soft target is armor weakend he just die in 4 hits in less then 4 secs. I've hit up to 162 with Irresistible blow who needs AS?? Maybe Frenzy > earth shaker > Crude Swing > Aftershock could be a different story in tomb/gvg but who knows.

1.) Agreed.
2.) Haha. Please. While you dick around with a wand, I'm actually hurting people with my hammer AND building adrenaline.
3.) Sound tactic.
4.) I doubt it, but okay.
5.) No. That knockdown chain is seriously flawed, even ignoring Backbreaker.
6.) What happened to 6? Counting correctly ftw.
7.) No.

Where you're going wrong is that you are putting damage first. A hammer build's primary focus is disruption and you have only one unconditional knockdown and therefore half the disruption a hammer build is capable of having. The damage is useful, but Axes are better at damage spikes than hammers are, yet the hammer damage is useful and pretty good, all things considered. So, here's the thought process outlined in a neat (but correct) numerical progression for you:

1.) What are hammers for? Disruption with healthy damage as a side effect.
2.) How can I maximize my disruption? Take as many low cost knockdowns as possible.
3.) Which knockdowns maximize this? Devastating Hammer and Hammer Bash or Heavy Blow.
4.) Hammer Bash or Heavy Blow? Hammer Bash. It's unconditional and therefore more likely to work.
5.) How do I link all this shit together? (Frenzy) Devastating->Crushing Blow->Something->Hammer Bash->Something.
6.) Is six the number after five? Yes.
7.) Do I pull out a wand now and do pissant damage to charge up? No, I go to another target and repeat the process.

Meimei · Sep 30, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

1.) Agreed.
2.) Haha. Please. While you dick around with a wand, I'm actually hurting people with my hammer AND building adrenaline.
3.) Sound tactic.
4.) I doubt it, but okay.
5.) No. That knockdown chain is seriously flawed, even ignoring Backbreaker.
6.) What happened to 6? Counting correctly ftw.
7.) No.

Where you're going wrong is that you are putting damage first. A hammer build's primary focus is disruption and you have only one unconditional knockdown and therefore half the disruption a hammer build is capable of having. The damage is useful, but Axes are better at damage spikes than hammers are, yet the hammer damage is useful and pretty good, all things considered. So, here's the thought process outlined in a neat (but correct) numerical progression for you:

1.) What are hammers for? Disruption with healthy damage as a side effect.
2.) How can I maximize my disruption? Take as many low cost knockdowns as possible.
3.) Which knockdowns maximize this? Devastating Hammer and Hammer Bash or Heavy Blow.
4.) Hammer Bash or Heavy Blow? Hammer Bash. It's unconditional and therefore more likely to work.
5.) How do I link all this shit together? (Frenzy) Devastating->Crushing Blow->Something->Hammer Bash->Something.
6.) Is six the number after five? Yes.
7.) Do I pull out a wand now and do pissant damage to charge up? No, I go to another target and repeat the process.

1.) no wand? attacking with hammer on soft target just making them run all over. if they stand still hey i attack with hammer no problem, but if they run ill just switch to wand and boost with frenzy speed and each hit deals 9-24. not only wand is ranged attack, it also attacks much faster. if i switch to another soft target, i have to run there with my hammer and still making that target runs all over. if target warriors i just attack with hammer. the point is to switching hammer and wand to make it flexiable. also if your adrenaline wait too long and going to worn off, just attack once with wand and it will refresh and keep up your adrenaline.

2.) you dont think i can finish a soft target at 80% health? let me give you a fact. each of my regular attack deals average of 50 dmg. and my skill combo is backbreaker > crushing > mighty > irresistable with frenzy speed. Dmg is 50+22 > 50+22+(100deepwound) > 50+32 > 50+32 that's average of 408 dmg in less then 4 secs not consider critical hits. just hit them once with normal attack, then it's too late for them to heal because the following attack is backbreaker. or if you see their health already at 80% hey just backbreaker from the start.

3.) you dont think i can finish a soft target at 100% health with armor weakening and critical 162 dmg? let me give you a fact. with armor weaken i hit 68 dmg per hit average. 68+22 > 68+22+(100deepwound) > 68+32 > 68+32, average dmg of 480 in less then 4 secs not consider critical hits. critical irresistable and mighty blow for 162? 68x2+32.

4.) why not devastating, heavy, bash? i didnt say these suck, i love these skills and i use Devastating > Crushing > normal hit > Heavy > normal hit > normal hit > normal hit a lot. but have you ever experienced with some <<SMART>> casters? Between 2 chian knockdown there is a gap, a gap that has 3/4 secs before a following knockdown, and these smart casters Blind me, or cast some protection which are so fast that i coudnt not interrupt with my 2nd knockdown making them servive. some of them just heal themself to full health so quickly and i have to start all over to build up adrenlaine. i already done what you guys been doing long ago.

5.) if you like disruption, battle rage with bash works ok but fun, every 3 hits you get a bash attack, if you cant keep up battle rage that's your problem because i can.

6.) why no 6? because i suck at counting nembers.

you said hammer brings disruption while dealing good dmg. that's your definition and i think it's good and agree with you.

to me, hammer is to surprise a soft target, knock them down and burst all high dmg as best as you can to finish them off before they can do anything. if you have the ability to do it why not? a dead target is a dead target, and he is dead and because he is dead.

I dont know how to put screen shots on the board or i would

Bast · Sep 30, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

I don't deny a hammer knockdown chain can kill someone. I've done it myself. My point is that your build is subpar in disruption and that's what hammers are for. Look at it like this. I can use Devastating Hammer in 7/10ths the strikes you can use your ridiculous Backbreaker. Hammer Bash is charged within that time since it's only 6 adrenaline. It should be obvious to anyone that I can cause more knockdowns than you can. You have one 4 second knockdown. I have two 3 second knockdowns because I use Stonefists and they actually do something for me. Okay, so I can knock a guy down for 3 seconds twice for 7 adrenaline when you can knock a guy down once for 4 seconds for 10 adrenaline? I win.

So you can solo an unprotected monk. So can I. But I have a hell of a lot more disruption and I don't have to dick around with a wand to do it in a timely manner. Go ahead and do your 5 or 6 damage with the wand. I'll happily charge up and do ~40 a hit. Thanks.