Curse

Txib · Sep 20, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

The random arenas. Three other people you've never met and may never meet again, vying against a similar selection for faction and fun. The first place many PvP oriented folks go, and the spot (judging from the sheer number of instances) that most of them remain. Although it has traditionally been the home of newbs and testers, that need not be so. One can go to the Competition Arena(CA) with the intention of winning there, and be successful.

How?

Autonomy.

Every other arena depends, to a greater extent, not only opon the actions of your fellows, but upon their builds' synergy with your own. When you are fighting against groups whose goal is to work together as a group, you too must keep that in goal in mind. Not that tactics and teamwork are unnecessary in the CA, they are critical... but they cannot work on the assumption that somebody else will fill the gaps in your skill set.

Here I provide my assumptions as to what each CA build should have, a sample build, a few general observations of arena play... and then I open the floor for comments and further builds from the peanut gallery.

Each CA build must have:

A way to heal itself.
A way to do damage.
A method for dealing with enemy hexes, conditions, and/or enchantments.
A resurrection signet.

Example: Fi Boon Redux

12 blood
3 healing
12 divine favor
(whatever runes you please)

Healing Touch
Orison of Healing
Mend Ailment
Shadow Strike
Offering of Blood(e)
Contemplation of Purity
Divine Boon
Resurrection Signet

Purity/Boon is an underappreciated combo to remove hexes from oneself.
Resurrection Signet (unless the build is DESIGNED for Vengence or Unyielding Aura) is the best rez going. If you need to resurrect folks more than once you're losing anyway.

BASIC CA RULES

1. Choose a caller and attack the same target.
2. Attack the warriors only after everyone else has been killed, rez'd, and killed again.
3. Be aware of how where your allies are and how they're doing.
4. Resurrect QUICKLY.

5. Any of the first four rules can be discarded with a good reason, so...
6. TALK TO YOUR ALLIES.

---

I listed a monk because I like to play monks, and a sturdy monk is the most likely buildto help newbs survive, but in an ideal world no CA group would need one. Every other class has a number of ways to keep themselves safe and healed. I'd love to play in an ideal world. I open the floor, let's hear some ideas.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 20, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Your CA build requirement screams w/mo. They carry exactly everything you'd need, lol. I agree with all of it except res signet... Why? If you're doing your job [I'm a warrior], nobody should be dying anyway...

What's more, I usually die the first because I'm suicidal like that, using this build...

12+1+3 Axe
8+1 Strength
7+1 Tactics
8 Curses

Swift Chop
Eviscerate {E}
Exe. Strike
Fear Me!
Frenzy
Sprint
Plague Touch
Rend Enchantments

The nature of this build is to die but at least bring 2 of them down with me... With Rend and Frenzy doing the majority of killing me, lol...

My best guess for a slight modification of this build would be to bring Healing Sig instead of Plague Touch and Res sig for Rend... But each time I do that, I die first anyway... [bah] oh well...

Jetdoc · Sep 20, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Why so high on the tactics? To pump up Fear Me?

It seems that if you're truly suicidal, you'd pump up your strength or curses to maximize your damage. I personally carry:

Eviscerate
Executioner's Strike
Swift Chop
Disrupting Chop
Axe Rake
Sprint
Frenzy
Res Signet

That can be for any warrior. Pump up Axe and Strength to the max and hack away. I know the Axe Rake and Sprint are overkill, but I found that I always have a way to track down and disable those pesky casters that are trying to run from me. It's also EXTREMELY low on energy as well, which I like as an axe warrior.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 20, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Fear Me! according to Eonwe's trials has a ward AoE effect.

It's not 4 energy from your foe in front of you, it's 16 energy from the entire team as a whole... That's worth 7+1 tactics

JYX · Sep 20, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

...heres something extremely quick 'n easy for you to farm faction with. Its just a monk basically, and a good enough one for most purposes...basically you gut out a Fi Boon healer to make a Boon Protector:

10 Prot + whatever runes you got
11 Divine Favour + 1 hat (or in prot if you want)
10 Blood

equipment: You'd think this wouldn't matter...but I'm pedantic like this. I use Judge's set for torso and pants...and tatoos for the hands and feet. I use necro wand/focus both with increased recharge on it. The point being that all our other skills recharge extremely quickly and cast fast (part from 1). Except Offering...we need offering, the faster the offering the more we can cast.

Skills:
Offering of Blood <- those 3 are from Fi Boon healer. They're pretty essential.
Divine Boon
Remove Hex

Reversal of Fortune <- standard prot stuff. Combine with boon for good prot/healing in one.
Mend Ailment
Guardian
Shielding Hands

Protective Spirit. (or rez sig)

I don't believe a monk should touch a rez sig. Even in 3 secs someone could die, in effect its a little longer because you have to re-adjust...get your bearings on where everyone is etc. Also eles seem to be out of fashion...but I've had some nasty suprises with them...so I always bring Protective Spirit even if I use it maybe 1 in 2 matches at a push. BUT...if you really love your rez sig, I think you can swap out Spirit for it.

Point in this build is simple...stop people dying. When people die...you've failed. In any case, if you keep everyone alive...they're bound to kill someone...right? Its easy to make as 3/8 of the skills including your elite are on the Boon healer. A further 3/8 skills can be found in pre-searing...Guardian is in Ascalon...Ailment is a bit far...but...I can't find an alternative :S

Fantus · Sep 20, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Your CA build requirement screams w/mo. They carry exactly everything you'd need, lol. I agree with all of it except res signet... Why? If you're doing your job [I'm a warrior], nobody should be dying anyway...

LOL... Usually I don't even TRY to heal that special breed of warrior who usually will kick in his run skill and rush across the map and into the enemies before the other players even have a chance to be there. It would be wasted energy.

Btw. If you're doing your job (I am a monk), nobody should need to be healed anyway.

smurfhunter · Sep 20, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I agree with all of it except res signet... Why? If you're doing your job [I'm a warrior], nobody should be dying anyway...

whoa. what part of a warriors job is keeping you alive? youre saying that as a warrior you can kill all the enemy offense and thus save your teamates asses?
umm...

no.

no no no no no no no no no.

as a warrior you shuold be the first to res. basic rule. as a warrior you are last on the list and therefore should bring a res, since you will probably stay alive the longest.

and to answer the OP, the best build to 'win' would be to try a good monk build. if you can keep your shitty teamates alive (lol), you should be able to get at least a stalemate unless the other team is really good, or the people in your team suck beyond belief.

Iraqalypse Now · Sep 21, 2005, 05:21 AM // 05:21

most of the faction you get from comp/team arena is from kills, not victories. And in general, people suck at playing guild wars, your teammates will usually suck, so.... yea, don't bother with res sig in random arena. It just delays games usually, sometimes it gives you +45 faction when you make a 1v1 into a 2v1.... and you shouldn't need a res sig to get the 1 or 2 kills on the enemy team to make it worthwhile fighting them.

The best way to go is to make an annoying mes/nec frag gank and go after the wars in front of the party with ethereal burden, fragility, phantom pain, shatter delusions, virulence. Then wait for recharge and combo out another guy if you can. I'm sorry for encouraging people to ruin random arena even more, everyone....

smurfhunter · Sep 21, 2005, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqalypse Now

most of the faction you get from comp/team arena is from kills, not victories. And in general, people suck at playing guild wars, your teammates will usually suck, so.... yea, don't bother with res sig in random arena. It just delays games usually, sometimes it gives you +45 faction when you make a 1v1 into a 2v1.... and you shouldn't need a res sig to get the 1 or 2 kills on the enemy team to make it worthwhile fighting them.

The best way to go is to make an annoying mes/nec frag gank and go after the wars in front of the party with ethereal burden, fragility, phantom pain, shatter delusions, virulence. Then wait for recharge and combo out another guy if you can. I'm sorry for encouraging people to ruin random arena even more, everyone....

no resigs have won matches in 4-4. if your monks drop, a good res can make the match. just use the sigs damit, i doubt your build really needs that 8th spot

NatalieD · Sep 21, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

whoa. what part of a warriors job is keeping you alive? youre saying that as a warrior you can kill all the enemy offense and thus save your teamates asses?
umm...

Note that "you" and "I" are different words and have different meanings.

Nightwish · Sep 21, 2005, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Though there are endless strategies that can used to win CA, I notice two most important factors that often gives the edge:

1.) Res Sig!

This is the only point I totally disagree with in all of Yukito's list of builds - res sig can reverse the situation. No matter how good the 8th skill is, I'm sure it will not outshine the effect of ressing a dead teamate back to full life (who might still have a res sig -woila - another teamate being ressed)

2.) Attacking monk/mesmer 1st

In CA, its too often my team lost badly because one of the warriors insists on dueling/chasing the enemy warrior who is clever enough to hunt down the softies. And some do not even have the sense to realize - that attacking a warrior/ranger with a monk healing from behind = waste of time.

iggk · Sep 21, 2005, 10:16 AM // 10:16

just think of a res sig as a dmg spell, as resing a fallen team mate will do more dmg than any other spell you could use in that spot.

Exar · Sep 21, 2005, 11:16 AM // 11:16

CA W/R

1. TF
2. penetrating
3. eviscerate
4. rake (or sprint)
5. executioner
6. healing sig (or sprint)
7. antidote sig
8. rez sig

axe 12+3+1
beast mastery 7 (8 secs TF, enough usually)
tac 8+1
str 8+1
marksmanship 1 ^_^

axe ups: furious (or vamp), +15 above 50 (or +15% in stance ), +30hp

Initially Id skip using tac, but my +hp always shield reqired 9 so basing on it i added heal signet which buffed a bit my vitality (+107 hp is quite nice). Anyway tac can be easly skipped for sprint (if you think rake is not enough) and another +1 to strength.
I find heal quite useful anyway, as it gives some few secs more when You are crippled, hexed and bleeding. And those secs can make that one more winning kill/winning no-death more

The really good ranger thingy is Antidote Sig - this little precious makes W/R much more independent couse it removes CA warriors bane - Blindness (+ posion and deasese too). 2 sec stop is worthy.

There is another advantage in this build - no mana skills, so all rege pips go to fuel Tiger wheee

And even with soothing images on or against sympathetic visage u can deal some nice dmg thx to TF axe.

One more - to properly use warrior one must remember a very important thing that many warriors (or their victims) do not keep attention to - always try attacing from behind

Its quite simple, ballanced and versatile build and im very happy with it. So have Your piece of phun too and lets meet on the field of battle

Cheers
------------------------
Lord Moriathor
I'm n00b and Im happy
------------------------

Kabale · Sep 21, 2005, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Bring Res Sig. I've lost count on the amount of times I've seen groups loose because nobody ressed.

Not even the best random team in the world can prepare for someone going down too fast for heals. Res sig is your friend...bring 'im!

Precur · Sep 21, 2005, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Here is the build that I use for the Random Arenas which has proven its worth. The highlight of this build is Amity .. it owns in the Competitive Arenas. It will protect you from Warriors who are always after our butt and can be used offensively to take an opponent out of the fight for a good while.

Protection / Healer

Class: Monk / Mesmer

Attributes: (cost) '+' indicates Rune attributes
Divine Favor: 10+2 (61) (Head gear + minor Devine rune)
Healing Prayers: 11+1 (77)
Protection Prayers: 10+3 (61) (Superior Protection rune)
Smiting Prayers: 1+1 (1)
Superior Vigor
Total attribute points used: 200/200

Skills: [Attribute] (Energy, Cast Time, Recharge TIme)

1) Reversal of Fortune [Protection Prayers] (5,0,2) Enchantment: The next time target ally would take damage, that ally gains that amount of health instead, maximum 71.[Ascalon City (Sir Bertran)]

2) Orison of Healing [Healing Prayers] (5,1,2) Spell: Heal target ally for 60 health.[Ascalon City (Sir Bertran) Quest: Sowing Seeds]

3) Dwayna's Kiss [Healing Prayers] (5,1,3) Spell: Heal target other ally for 51 health and an additional 17 health for each enchantment or hex on that ally.[Quarrel Falls (Sorim), Henge of Denravi (Master Scout Kiera) Quest: Graven Images (North Kryta Province)]

4) Healing Touch [Healing Prayers] (5,1,5) Spell: Heal target touched ally for 51 health. Health gain from Divine Favor is doubled for this spell.[Droknar's Forge (Bartoch) Quest: The Misplaced Sword (Heroes Audience)]

5) Mend Ailment [Protection Prayers] (5,1,2) Spell: Remove one condition from target ally. That ally is healed for 61 health for each remaining condition.[Quarrel Falls (Sorim) Quest: The Hot Springs Murders (Nebo Terrace)]

6) Aegis [Protection Prayers] (15,1,30) Enchantment: For 10 seconds, all party members have a 50% chance to block attacks.[Fisherman's Haven (Mazzim)]

7) Amity [Protection Prayers] (5,0,60) Hex: For 19 seconds, adjacent foes cannot attack. For each foe, Amity ends if that foe takes damage. This is an elite skill.[Boss: Pravus Obsideo (Perdition Rock)]

8) Resurrect Signet[none] (0,3,-) Signet: Resurrect target party member.

Have fun

DaMonk StormLord

Man With No Name · Sep 21, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txib

Blah Blah Blah Blah....

Each CA build must have:

A way to heal itself.
A way to do damage.
A method for dealing with enemy hexes, conditions, and/or enchantments.
A resurrection signet.

I thought this thread was called build to win..?? This isn't building to win at all. This is building to be self sufficient -- which is building ftl

I geniunely thought this thread might have been a good guide for people to read in order to raise the standards in CA -- annoyingly it's not -- it's just telling them to do what they already do.

Not one of those single "must have's" are correct....

A Warrior certainly wants a way to do damage but why would he want:
- Self-healing
- Hexes Removal
- Condition Removal
- Enchantments Removal

Have you played Warrior at all..?? At most a Warrior should bring 2 of those 4. And if he can only bring one the priority would read from bottom to top.

Taking your suggestion and bringing all 4 + Rez Signet would leave me with 3 Warrior skills so that's no Sprint or Frenzy which equals no damage

A solid Warrior build would consist like so:

W/N

Rez Signet
Eviscerate (E)
Executioner's Strike
Plague Touch ( anti-conditions )
Sprint ( speed boost )
Frenzy ( increased attack speed )
Wild Blow / Swift Chop ( anti-stance )
Rend Enchantments ( anti-enchantments )

You'll notice the lack of any healing and hex removal. Chopping anymore offense off and I might as well fight them 4 vs 1 -- since I'll be the tank that can do everything

Similarly why would a Monk want a way to do damage or why would a Monk carry a Rez Signet..?? The Monks job is to heal/protect -- the time wasted he spends rezzing is the time that himself and/or his teammates are dieing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Your CA build requirement screams w/mo

Quoted for truth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Why? If you're doing your job [I'm a warrior], nobody should be dying anyway...

People are completely miss-interpreting this.

A Monk shouldn't carry a rez sig and if he/she is healing/protecting efficiently no one will die. If he/she does use a Rez Signet they are not healing/protecting which means even more people are dieing. A Monk should plan for success -- not to bring a Rez Signet

Where did Yukito Kunisaki ever say that a Warrior shouldn't carry a Rez Signet..??

Again it's Quoted for truth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txib

BASIC CA RULES

1. Choose a caller and attack the same target.
2. Attack the warriors only after everyone else has been killed, rez'd, and killed again.
3. Be aware of how where your allies are and how they're doing.
4. Resurrect QUICKLY.

5. Any of the first four rules can be discarded with a good reason, so...
6. TALK TO YOUR ALLIES.

Your basic rules are more solid -- I especially like the escape clause #5

To build to win means you have to be at least partially dependant on your team mates. Your all meant to have a function and creating four jack-of-all-trades builds -- is the perfect way to lose since you will have no offense.

That's unless you like to win by having 1 hour war of attrition battles where two teams consisting of 2 Monks and 2 W/Mo's face off against each other only to get smashed in the next fight by a team of specialists

The times when I have most success in Random is when I get a team of specialists and completely by chance -- Monks are kitted out to heal, Mesmers are kitted out to shutdown casters, Rangers are kitted out for damage or interuption and Warriors are kitted out for damage and to put real pressure on the enemy monks -- that is the true way to win -- ROLE SPECIALISATION

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 21, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuTeBaka

hah, have you ever been in tombs? Almost all axe builds use evis+executioners, and who the hell uses essence bond. Fear me is a very good energy denial shout, monks are in charge of healing not ressing, warriors and others are in charge of ressing the monks to keep themselves alive while doing damage.

Testbot has been denied!!!

Dissing my build is one thing, but challenging me in the prescence of a competent team is something else. Why am I the first to die? Because I like CA that's why. It's crazy and the 'meta game' is never experienced in CA because nothing there is a constant. Everything is a variable. And if you didn't know what that meant testbot, you're the 12 yr. old...

I run 16 axe, 9 str, 8 tactics with 8 curses. Though I die, I can quickly take 2 foes with me or at least kill one and whittle another down to 10% hp... I don't need someone who never posts or looks around telling me I'm wrong...

And thanks Kutebaka

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 21, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

whoa. what part of a warriors job is keeping you alive? youre saying that as a warrior you can kill all the enemy offense and thus save your teamates asses?
umm...

no.

no no no no no no no no no.

as a warrior you shuold be the first to res. basic rule. as a warrior you are last on the list and therefore should bring a res, since you will probably stay alive the longest.

and to answer the OP, the best build to 'win' would be to try a good monk build. if you can keep your shitty teamates alive (lol), you should be able to get at least a stalemate unless the other team is really good, or the people in your team suck beyond belief.

First off, 'everyone' has the assumption to bring a res sig due to having spare skill slots. I don't have them. What's more, if 3 of my teammates NEED to use res sigs, who cares? If we need to use all 3, we're dead regardless... First to res?! I'm the first to kill mofo... This is CA, wild rampant stuff is allowed to happen and it's not MEANT to be serious. If I die, hey I don't complain. I'm a W/N without a guarunteed monk for backup so hexes will own me no matter what.

However, if I play by assumption that I might not have a monk, then I can just go full out offensive battle system and then do more than hindering myself one skill slot... Bringing a TA build to CA? Why not? I like it.

Detrius · Sep 21, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

my 2 cents:

in random competition areans the chances of you getting a healer on your team are quite low (20% maybe). Teams with a healer will almost always defeat a team without one. So play a healer if you want to win.

My character (a result of my only PvE character being a E/Mo who is in the crystal desert – meaning a very limited selection of skills being available) is as follows:

Energy 11+3+1
Healing 12
Earth – 7+1

Ether Renewal {E}
Aura of Restoration
Kinetic Armor
Mending
Healing Breeze
Heal Other
Vigorous Spirit
Orison of Healing

Before you flame me for not taking res signet, I feel its better to let the fighters take because this build relies heavily on being enchanted.

General strategy: have 4 personal enchantments on yourself at all times. When you get low on energy, hit Ether Renewal and if the situation permits, cast healing Breeze on yourself. You will then have 6 enchantments active

Now consider the benefits: Casting Orizon of Healing for 5 energy on yourself gives approx (no in front of the game):

Orison +60
Aura of Rest: 5x3.8 = 19
Vigorous: 11
Ether Renewal: 19x6 = 114
Total: 204 healing + 11 pips of health.and 30 energy recovered

Because you have no res signet, you need to be spamming your healing spells like crazy to try to prevent people from dying (and to keep kinetic armor up). Yeah, no divine favour, but you have almost unlimited energy at your disposal. Just don’t go down, because its hard to get back after being res’d.

Nightwish · Sep 21, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

While Yukito might not be able to pack a res sig in his build, i think most players (especially warriors/rangers) should bring res sig if possible. Imagine all the teamates do not bring res sig, the other team would definitely have the upperhand if they are equally competent (since death is inevitable).

p/s. I do not like to restrict my skill bar with res sig personally. Who does? But its importance is quite significant =/ I hope someone can convince me otherwise.