Curse

Corwin · Oct 25, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

How can you 'stealthily' removed all someones enchants, then 'stealthily' hex the hell out of them over a 10s period?

LOL

Like I said, I didn't put that much thought into it. I was thinking about the energy problem.

It was a bad idea, I realize that - can someone go back to answering the OP's actual question?

woesla · Oct 26, 2005, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Why dous evryone say i should pick ranger pri. ???
is ya have high soul reaping you get your enrgy back pretty fast...and since I want to do high damage = fast kill ????
and if i want to do something from my second prof that would be a real mana consumer if i only have expertise....

ps. I have read like 60% of the forums about rangers *i think*
But for pure damage most people say go with elem and conjure....
Others say /monk for JI.... i find it very confusing.....can someone pls tell me both the good things about them and the downsides???

Manfred · Oct 26, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Conjure adds 1...13 elem damage to every attack OF THAT ELEMENT. Thgat means to use conjure fire, you need a fiery bow string, etc. The way rangers get around this is by using kindle arrows, which deals fire damage. It results in a bigger spread of your attribute points, though, but still does good damage against unprotected targets.

Against protected targets, the smiting line fo monks have JI, which adds 20% armor penetration in addition to making attacks holy damage. (normal damage is halved every 40 armor, holy damage is I think halved every 200-ish, and it doesn't count as elemental OR physical). So basically, your attacks now ignore armor, and using JI lets you use read the wind as well, which gives a decent bonus (not as good as kindle) and reduces your miss rate by a lot. You also can elminiate wilderness from your linup, giving extra attribute points to beef up attacks.

Both can be used with quicksotting or ranger interrupt.
Choose conjure flame/kindle if you plan on attacking people with zilch for armor, or choose JI to take down anyone.

Sister Rosette · Oct 26, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53

This is the 2nd thread he's posted like this.

He's already thrown up 2 of his character slots to the forum,
he might as well throw his CD key up...

woesla · Oct 26, 2005, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

This is the 2nd thread he's posted like this.

He's already thrown up 2 of his character slots to the forum,
he might as well throw his CD key up...

keep dreaming...not evry character is here to stay

Sister Rosette · Oct 26, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Then why go to all the trouble of making threads for them and asking
how to make them?

woesla · Oct 26, 2005, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

Then why go to all the trouble of making threads for them and asking
how to make them?

You have to play a type of character be4 you learn if it fits your playstyle dont ya agree??

JYX · Oct 26, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by woesla

Why dous evryone say i should pick ranger pri. ???
is ya have high soul reaping you get your enrgy back pretty fast...and since I want to do high damage = fast kill ????

Simply because you want to do high damage doesn't mean that you will. Also as for the energy involved, its a simple question of maths: the numbers for expertise are here Though bear in mind because of the rounding, and the fact that you'll be using lots of 10 energy attacks, that at 14 expertise it translates into a roughly 60% reduction on energy costs. Factor in a zealous bow, and you get extremely cheap skills as long as you keep chooting. Necromancer soul reaping is fine...at 14 in soul reaping you get 14 energy per death.

But this is sporadic, you will have long stretches in which nobody gets killed and you will run extremely dry on energy...then you will have 3-4 people get killed in a row so that you can't possibly use all the energy in time and it gets wasted. Expertise is powerful and passive, with a zealous bow dual shot costs 2 energy other skills 3, as a necro it will cost 8 can you honestly say you're going to kill so many people so as to make up for a 5/6 point difference PER shot? Also necromancer skills do not need runes to work out, especially since you're looking at curses...curses with lengths into the 30s and 40s are just plain wasteful...either the guy's long died...or you've been fighting over him so long that he's become invulnerable with the sheer quantity of monk buffs on him.

Necromancer is a conflicted class, for greater information and and rudimentary understanding of why there are constants in the metagame in general you can refer to this thread. Espcially the "Profession Balance" section of the first post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by woesla

and if i want to do something from my second prof that would be a real mana consumer if i only have expertise....

Rangers, with expertise on, have amazing skills. As I explained before, as an optimised damager ranger, the amount of free slots you have are limited. You simply won't be able to do too much with your secondary. But yes, this is a valid point, even if you wished to you couldn't do too much. Though I assure you, using Soul Reaping instead of expertise is not the answer to your problems for the reasons above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by woesla

ps. I have read like 60% of the forums about rangers *i think*
But for pure damage most people say go with elem and conjure....
Others say /monk for JI.... i find it very confusing.....can someone pls tell me both the good things about them and the downsides???

I'm assuming they're ranger spikers. They use this because they're scraping the bottom of the barrel for a few more points of damage. Spiking isn't a sustained business...they burn their energy on extremely inefficient JI/Conjure which isn't affected by expertise and for that they get a kill. Personally, I think its unnecessary, a pure ranger decked out correctly with spirits and attributes pumped can achieve exactly the same. Heres the up/downsides.

Conjure Flame can be used if you do Kindle Arrows, this is because the bow's attack is turned to fire, and you can use conjure while holding a zealous bow. The problem here is that you have to spread your attributes between five attributes (expertise, marks, wilderness, beastmastery, fire)...thats...tons. Considering you absolutely CANNOT go lower than 10 in expertise, this limits the overall effectiveness of your shots. You get, lower kindles, worse spirits, lower bow damage, lesser TFs...for like...a 7 point conjure which costs you 10 energy regardless. I don't like.

Judge's Insight doesn't last as long as conjure, and according to some it doesn't do as much damage as either. You use Read the Winds to boost your normal attack damage, and since you're using that...you can pump your normal bow attack high as well. This is much better for distribution, especially since you don't need to have high smiting to get a lot out of Judge's Insight. Word is...in all practical ways RTW doesn't stack with favourable winds so thats a downside. Also you have to consider that Judge's Insight doesn't last as long as a Conjure would and it takes 2 seconds to cast on top of your normal 2 seconds with your prep. Thats a lot of time you're not shooting at anyone.

woesla · Oct 26, 2005, 01:42 PM // 13:42

k thnx for clearing that out....
seems like having a pure ranger is best for damage dealing

Thnx all for the info

Morganas · Oct 26, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everous

Stop spreading misinformation. Expertise affects more than attack skills, preps, spirits, signets under primal echoes. This certainly is NOT limited to warriors and rangers. The touch skills are just that...skills, not spells.

Thus...using expertise, you get cheaper touches...since they're skills - and yes this has been tested courtesy of clan SPEC - they have extremely little or no aftercast. They are powerful at even low attribute points making it ideal for a secondary profession. They are reasonably strong, and the fast casting speed and no aftercast means they're faster than an axe under a speed boost.

Doesn't make sense?...kk then.

Curses have many many skills that work well with low attributes, weaken armor lasts a good amount of time at 0 curses. Yet you have managed to magically pick out a curse which does not..in barbs. You have there, a barbs build, though since you didn't care to post a full build I can't comment on the details such as stat distribution/skill synergy etc. Though I can mention that basing an entire build on 1-2 essential hexes, especially one with as long a recharge as barbs is a bad idea. Mark of Pain for PvP is bad. The fact that by limiting his marksmanship and then boosting his beastmastery high because you wish to get a pet...you won't have a half decent prep to use.

Spells ARE skills, everything is, and expertise only works on attacks skills, traps, and preps. If expertise affected "skills" it would affect everything. If it's working on vamp touch, it's either bugged or the attribute description is wrong. I'll test it tonight, but I'm fairly certain of what I'll find.

Preps are usually for boosting dmg, the pet will make up for that. As for essential hexes, there are tons of builds that do that, and note that I only recommended this for 4v4 pvp where hex removal is too scarce to get by cover hexing usually. Also, yeah, mark of pain is bad. I mentioned it because its useful in tombs for ranger spike teams taking out warrior heavy teams like IWAY or assaulting the altar, but in tombs you should put it on a nec anyways.

Suuk · Oct 26, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everous

Conjure Flame can be used if you do Kindle Arrows, this is because the bow's attack is turned to fire, and you can use conjure while holding a zealous bow. The problem here is that you have to spread your attributes between five attributes (expertise, marks, wilderness, beastmastery, fire)...thats...tons. Considering you absolutely CANNOT go lower than 10 in expertise, this limits the overall effectiveness of your shots. You get, lower kindles, worse spirits, lower bow damage, lesser TFs...for like...a 7 point conjure which costs you 10 energy regardless. I don't like.

Factor in that it is an enchantment and you will stay away from this. Cuz if its removed, you run around with wasted attribute points in an elemental line for 60 sec. Same applies to JI, be it that attr points do not affect the dmg dealt, but the length of the enchant. Also, rechare of JI is much better (10 sec). So if you insist on running either of these, I would prefer JI over conjure. That is without factoring other ele or monk skills in...

JYX · Oct 26, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

Spells ARE skills, everything is, and expertise only works on attacks skills, traps, and preps. If expertise affected "skills" it would affect everything. If it's working on vamp touch, it's either bugged or the attribute description is wrong.

Different subsets. Theres a "skill" subset under the broader range of all usable abilities. This is then further split between Attack Skills, Preparations, Traps, Stances, Rituals, Glyphs, and Shouts whereas the Spell side is then split into Enchants, Hexes etc etc. The spell description clearly labels vampiric gaze as a spell yet touch as a skill...more specifically under the attack skills section. It would certainly not be bugged, it affects the skill side of things, even down to signets under primal echoes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

I'll test it tonight, but I'm fairly certain of what I'll find.

Already been done courtesy of SPEC. If you actually want to contribute something go check if it still affects glyphs.

rii · Oct 26, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

It does - glyph of lesser energy flame burst for 2 energy ftw!

Skills - all the things that go in your bar
|
Spells- Skill - Traps - Rituals - Preparations -Shouts - Attack skills- Glyphs- Signets - Stances

Spells
|
Enchantment spells (e.g. elemental attunement)
Hex Spells (e.g. Weaken amour)
Spells (e.g. flame burst)

Skill (e.g. endure pain, VAMPIRIC TOUCH: p)

Traps (e.g. barbed trap)

Rituals (e.g. winnowing)

Preparations (e.g. kindle arrows)

Shouts
|
Adrenal Shouts - (e.g. fear me!)
Energy Shouts - (e.g. shields up!)

Attack Skills
|
Melee Attacks
|
Adrenal attack skills (e.g. eviscerate)
Energy attack skills (e.g. pure strike)
|
Bow attacks – all energy (e.g. power shot)
|
Pet Attacks – all energy (e.g. bestial pounce)

Glyphs- (e.g. glyph of renewal)

Signets
|
Signets under primal echoes
Signets normally (e.g. leech signet)

Stances
|
Adrenal Stances (e.g. Bonetti’s defense)
Energy Stances (e.g. distortion)

I think that’s everything…. It appears your being confused by ‘skills’ which is everything, and ‘skill’ which is a specific sub-set.
Expertise affects:

Bow attacks
Pet attacks
Skill
Energy Stances
Signets under primal echoes
Glyphs
Energy melee attack skills
Energy Shouts
Preparations
Traps
Nature Rituals

A beefy list no doubt (correct me if I missed anything/ got it wrong)
It therefore does not affect:
Adrenal attacks
Adrenal shouts
Spells

Putting it like that makes expertise really seem like the bomb -.-

Manfred · Oct 26, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Adrenal anything.
you missed THE adrenal stance, but I think people get the idea.