Curse

Shwitz · Oct 20, 2005, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Me/N Energy Denial/Degen build

Fast Casting 8
Domination 10
Inspiration 12
Curses 10

1. Enfeeble
2. Faintheartedness
3. Power Leak
4. Power Drain
5. Wither {E}
6. Ether Feast
7. Ether Lord
8. Res Sig

Warriors/rangers who bring the hate get a nice dose of Enfeeble + Faintheartedness. The caster of my choosing gets Wither'ed, and Power Leak'ed. If I get low on energy, I have the options of either babysitting and Power Draining, or Ether Lord to give me a +3 energy regen and my target -3 for 9 seconds. If I time it right, I can Wither and Power Leak someone down to zero energy, then hit them with Ether Lord and turn my attention to someone else for Wither. Wither and Faintheartedness together on a target give -4 health degen and -2 energy degen, and if I manage to tack on Ether Lord that's -4/-5.

I just made this up tonight, still working out the kinks. It can't kill anything, but it can sure slow/weaken a warrior, throw a wrench in a caster's plans, and with 12 in Inspiration and Ether Feast, even heal itself a bit. I'd like to throw some health regen/degen like Life Siphon in somewhere for some added kick, but I don't know what to reduce as far as attributes and what to replace for the skill.

Playing games with my and other people's energy is fun! Comments and suggestions, as always, are welcome.

NatalieD · Oct 20, 2005, 06:39 AM // 06:39

You know Wither ends if the victim has 0 energy, right? You're undermining your own elite with that build...

Rico Carridan · Oct 20, 2005, 08:27 AM // 08:27

I ran into a Korean team who ran a couple builds similar to this. Soon as they got in range, half our casters got hit with 29 seconds of 4 pip energy degen (they used malaise instead of power leak though). You're better off not having your target run out of energy, by the way, since it will disable your spells; ideally, you want to get them to 1-4 energy, so they can do nothing until your spells expire.

Counters to worry about:
1) Wand swap. If player is carrying a +15 energy -1 wand, they can clear your hexes very quickly. They still go to zero, but they don't stay here.

2) Remove hex. You should bring a nice, long lasting cover hex for this build. The team I played against used parasitic bond to cover. That way, if you want to remove the hex, you first have to get rid of a worthless hex like parasitic, before you can start getting rid of wither.

3) Energy management. Some players just won't care that they have 4 pips of degen, because their build is good enough that they can keep their energy going without it.

Rico

lilith000 · Oct 20, 2005, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Usually attacking their energy directly with spells like energy burn is better than energy degen. The only advantage to energy degen is the lock down where they cannot cast anything and is at 0 regen. I have to say, using -1 focus to counter the problem of 0 regen is quite novel, and it is unlikely any would have this.

tafy69 · Oct 20, 2005, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilith000

Usually attacking their energy directly with spells like energy burn is better than energy degen. The only advantage to energy degen is the lock down where they cannot cast anything and is at 0 regen. I have to say, using -1 focus to counter the problem of 0 regen is quite novel, and it is unlikely any would have this.

No the way it works is like this:

Caster has 3 energy and 0 regen because of them annoying necro Malaise and wither

Caster Swaps too no weapon and loses 10 energy from staff bonus, making 0 energy and thus losing both hexes, swap back to staff and your good to go again.

Sister Rosette · Oct 20, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Malaise is a good alternative to Wither, use the elite spot for Energy Drain
or something.

Xasew · Oct 20, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Panic>Wither, but I guess that's just me.

Shwitz · Oct 20, 2005, 01:15 PM // 13:15

NatalieD: I know that Wither ends when the target's energy reaches zero. That's one of those "kinks" I need to work out.

Rico Carridan: Thank you for your input. When I first threw skills onto my skill bar, I used Parasitic Bond as a cover hex and didn't have Ether Feast. Since I play mostly in the Competition Arenas, hex removal isn't too prevalent, so I got away without a cover hex for the most part. If I were to replace Power Leak with Malaise, though, how would I counter the degen on myself? Blood magic - Life Siphon?

Sister Rosette: Energy Drain's recharge is burdensome now, and I don't really have an energy problem with this build. Power Drain and Ether Lord gained energy back for me pretty well. It also does not take away that much energy anymore, which is a reason I avoided using it. I will look into how it could benefit me though.

Xasew: Panic would be good to use in an 8 person situation when there's more of a chance of people bunching together. For a 4-per-team arena, Panic usually catches 1, maybe 2 people, and costs me 25 energy. Wither is a much more useful spell when targetting single enemies.

Ishamael Sedai · Oct 20, 2005, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Although wither is good & useful, the ability to swap weapons to end the energy degen would make me only want to take malaise & use my elite on something else.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 20, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I tried such an idea using a W/N using a combo of Wither and Malaise. It didn't go to well at all with the gurus here due to 3 problems.

Their energy hits 0. Blah for both my main attack spells.
You WANT their energy to hit 0. It's an energy denial build right?
Weapon swap. They can get to 0 faster now. Gay...

If you're going to deny energy, I'd say to go the combo of Domination + Inspiration.

Energy Burn, Energy Surge/Drain {E}, Arcane Echo, Energy Tap is THE first half of your skill bar to tear casters in half with.

Shadow of Fear, Enfeebling Blood, Plague Touch, Rend Enchantments would be your other half.

There. Now you can turn casters to dust using your mesmer half, and make non-casters useless using your necro half. High efficiency is your friend.

10+1+1 Domination
9+1 Inspiration
7+1 Fast Casting
10 Curses

Shwitz · Oct 20, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

In fact, I've been toying with a build similar to that at other times Yukito

Was using Drain Enchantment instead of Rend though for the energy kickback. I'll see how I do as far as energy with Rend though. Thanks for the suggestions!

smurfhunter · Oct 20, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

for real energy denial, you need:
energy surge
energy burn
sigent of weariness

and then some extras like:
shame
power leak
mind wrack
cry of frustration
etc

the inspiration skills now suck horribly for edenial, theyre only good for regening it yourself, and even that isnt too great with the recharge times. energy tap is total garbage fyi.

i find that echoing energy surge isnt worth it, but w/e

rii · Oct 20, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

I once ran into a monk, who decided the best way to get rid of malaise was to change focus. So i spammed it on him and another guy, and neither of them got of a spell, since they spent all their time whiching weapons. (and i interrupted their occasional orison) (mantra of recovery/malaise/fast casting ftw -.-) If you have a big enough energy engine it can piss people off no end, just watch the hands :S
Its got a 2 sec cooldown for a reason... most people i meet just cast it once and consider the enemy done. Obvioulsy not true.

And inspiration is great e denial. Shackles ftw... a warrior with no energy is a warrior with no ias, speed buff, hard res, or energy skills..... same with ranger.

smurfhunter · Oct 20, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

And inspiration is great e denial. Shackles ftw... a warrior with no energy is a warrior with no ias, speed buff, hard res, or energy skills..... same with ranger.

standard edenial is supposed to edenial monks and casters, not warriors and rangers. i have yet to see a monk dumb enough to start wanding with spirit shackles on

rii · Oct 21, 2005, 05:57 PM // 17:57

yes, well done, monks dont wand (well actually...

)
and no, energy denial is important on all of the enemy members. Although due to expertise and adrenaline, its sometimes overlooked/ignored... but it makes a difference.

Shwitz · Oct 21, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I got bored with trying to make this work and went back to my tried and true Energy Burn/Surge build...

Me/N
Fast Casting 8
Domination 14
Inspiration 10
Curses 10

1. Enfeeble/Enfeebling Blood
2. Faintheartedness/Shadow of Fear
3. Power Leak
4. Power Drain
5. Energy Surge {E}
6. Energy Burn
7. Mind Wrack/Signet of Weariness
8. Res Sig

Its what I was using right after the Energy Drain/Tap change, for the most part, and very similar to what Yukito suggested. I originally had no necro skills and was using Spirit of Failure + Distortion to avoid ranger/warrior attacks. Enfeeble + an attack speed de-buff works well... I'd like to mix in Ether Lord and/or something else from Curses though... I tend to cast myself out of energy with my frequent use of Burn/Surge, so Ether Lord would allow me to regain energy while denying the enemy regen while I switch targets.

tafy69 · Oct 21, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Panic + Signet of weariness + ether lord

and QZ on the team ranger

then u got good edenial build for tombs

rii · Oct 21, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

qz echo sq debil shot still is the best in the field for single target nuking.

Eonwe · Oct 21, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

Malaise is a good alternative to Wither, use the elite spot for Energy Drain
or something.

Malaise, wither, and energy drain are all equally terrible. Before Energy Drain recieved a nerf I'd say sure, take out Wither because no one in their right mind should ever use that skill (same goes to say for malaise) and put energy drain in there. However, with the new energy drain it is hardly worth the elite slot, especially if all you want to do is play energy denial.

To elaborate a bit, if some of you don't understand, the reason that wither/malaise are terrible is because focus swapping exists. The way to beat any kind of energy denial is focus swapping, ofcourse. However, when we look at whither and malaise we see that they both end when the target foe reaches 0 energy. So, let's say that I'm playing monk, and I get hit with wither. At the time the hex was cast I had 20 energy, and I had my +10 energy staff equipped. So I go ahead and cast heal other, so now I'm at 10 energy. I switch to an empty focus slot, reach 0 energy, and wither drops off. I then switch back to my staff, and have 10 energy. So the person just basically wasted 10 energy to get me to focus swap, and at the expense of his elite. On a side note, this is why people buy negative energy weapons, so that if they are ever hit with wither/malaise, they can just switch to their -5 energy focus set, and drop them off even faster.

smurfhunter · Oct 21, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

...but malaise is super spammable. thats the whole point of the spell. duuh you focus swap, but it can be effective of you just malaise everyone in sight and then keep doing it. kind of like diversion spamming before it got nerfed.

idk ive seen a few people use it really effectively.. but yes wither is just not worth the elite