Curse

rii · Nov 05, 2005, 10:58 AM // 10:58

An All monk team ftw! Flame/gaze spike team to be exact…with lots of boon.

Monk/Elementalist – W/Melee / Boon Healer

Earth: 12
Divine Favor: 9+3
Healing: 9+2
Protection: 3+1

Healing Touch
Reversal of Fortune
Heal Other
Glyph of Energy [e]
Obsidian Flame
Ward against Melee
Resurrection Signet
Divine Boon

Monk/Elementalist – W/Foes / Party Healer

Earth: 12
Healing: 9+3
Divine Favor: 9+2

Glyph of Energy [e]
Obsidian Flame
Ward against Foes
Resurrection Signet
Divine Boon
Heal Party
Healing Seed
Divine Healing

Monk/Elementalist – W/Elements / Boon Healer

Earth: 12
Healing: 9+2
Divine Favor: 9+3

Healing Touch
Reversal of Fortune
Heal Other
Glyph of Energy [e]
Obsidian Flame
Ward against Elements
Resurrection Signet
Divine Boon

Monk/Necromancer – Bip / Damage Reduction Prot ‘Prot Spirit’

Blood: 12
Protection: 9+4
Divine Favor: 9+1
Curses: 3

Blood is Power [e]
Protective Spirit
Reversal of Fortune
Vampiric Gaze
Rend Enchantments
Well of Blood
Aegis
Resurrection Signet

Monk/Necromancer – Bip / Boon Hex Remover

Blood: 12
Divine Favor: 11+4
Protection: 6+1

Divine Boon
Remove Hex
Holy Veil
Blood is Power [e]
Convert Hexes
Divine Healing
Resurrection Signet
Vampiric Gaze

Monk/Necromancer – Bip/ Boon Healer

Blood: 12
Healing: 9+2
Divine Favor: 9+3
Curses: 3

Blood is Power [e]
Vampiric Gaze
Rend Enchantments
Resurrection Signet
Healing Touch
Reversal of Fortune
Heal Other
Divine Boon

Monk/Warrior – Martyr/Tactics Buffer/ Hex Remover/Deep Wounder

Divine Favor: 12+4
Tactics: 12
Axe: 3

Dismember
Shields Up!
Watch Yourself!
Martyr [e]
Flurry
Divine Healing
Restore Life
Holy Veil

Monk/Necromancer – Bip / Dodge Prot ‘Guardian’

Blood: 12
Protection: 9+4
Divine Favor: 9+1
Curses: 3

Blood is Power [e]
Vampiric Gaze
Rend Enchantments
Aegis
Guardian
Mend Ailment
Draw Conditions
Divine Boon

The Spike is sufficient to kill – 3x flame and 4 x gaze + Deep Wound = 485 damage + -20% max hp… Fake spikes are easily made with gaze, and the healing and protection/hex removal must rank with some of the best ever- Aside from ye old hex breaker perhaps. 4 BiPs make this team more or less immune from the direly shafting signet of humility which plagues bip users and give amazing energy regeneration, on top of that, the bipping duties can be evenly spread, thus stopping the main bipper as normal being the focus of spike.

Enchantment removal is medium since with all flame/gaze teams the target can change at any time. Gaze is of course cast able whenever, but flame needs glyph of energy. One naked flame per 30s is acceptable though, so I suppose an initial barrage of spike could go –glyph-flame-flame *wait* glyph-flame… then wait for 15s and repeat. You should drop someone every time, no questions, and their offense is more the target, unless they have a dam good prot monk. Once your left with just their monks, basically ignore them and go onto the guild lord/npcs. This isn’t a gank, but there’s no point in hitting through prot spirit for the sake of it. Once at the lord, wards and seed goes up, and basically camp by the guild lord and pick of the npcs – lame but effective I think. The npcs don’t follow call methinks, so finding a seed target that won’t get rended shouldn’t be too hard. As for rend itself (it is an enchant heavy team) I don’t think it’s a problem. Whoever they target can easily be supported by the other 7, until enchants like bip and boon can be reapplied. Killing the enemy monks might be also necessary once at the lord and relying on superior healing leaves their offense untouched.

The way I see it, warrior spike is the best in the game (2x evis+ kd chain = dead anything), but a good team that can’t shut them down is frankly incompetent when you look at it in light of day. Massive hex infliction and a few other non-counterable things really shaft warrior spike, so I’m looking at alternatives… this is one, and out of 10 maybe?

mortalis doleo · Nov 05, 2005, 11:45 AM // 11:45

i prefer a 8 monk team piking with sig of judgement and mantra of inscription/signets.
there is more to that build (my ideas, so i don't want to publish until i try it out a bit), but here is a nice idea:

insert a life bonder (he can be martyring if you want), and whenever you need to have healing seed up, put it on him. he will be "damaged" A LOT, so everyone near him will be constantly healed...

rii · Nov 05, 2005, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Yeah, and then they get rended when a good teams sees hes a life bonder, he goes o noes, and has a hard time putting it back on again, if not an impossible time.

Using smite on 8 monks.... For a start I fought against this in tombs yesterday by some amazing coincidence and they were steamrollered by iway (me), but maybe they just sucked :S
It doest allow much room for energy management, since you want divine favour, healing/prot, then smiting, and a decent level of inspiration too. So either you drop one of healing/prot/favour for inspiration, or you end up with mushy attributes. The whole point is that all of the team members are capable of healing/protection in some form (and are able to do it well), and that compromise seems a little weak.

Whatsmore, the /e secondary and /n secondary gives wards and too a weaker extent wells, plus rend enchantments. Im not sure, but im going out on a limb and saying sig of judgement is capable of being prot spirited and so forth, and while it doesnt make a lot of difference it can make enough. Rend is useful for these situations.

So personally, i wouldnt want the squishiness of a lifebonder, which most good teams will rip up, and i want some more useful secondaries. Whatsmore, even with mantra of inscriptions there isnt the same level of spike, unless you use other smite skills, but then your getting clogged up with lots of damage skills... this is just gaze on one char, and then just energy/flame on the other. Again, the lack of using lots of skill slots makes the defensive side much stronger, which is kind of the whole point.

mortalis doleo · Nov 05, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

what i stated wasn't my complete build, and most of what you said doesn't effect the full build, so i'll have to ignore it, respectfully.

as for the group being steamrolled by IWAY, they must have sucked pretty bad, because that build should own IWAY completely...

JYX · Nov 05, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

what i stated wasn't my complete build, and most of what you said doesn't effect the full build, so i'll have to ignore it, respectfully.

Since you refuse to post the build you're talking about. I'm gonna have to ignore you. Dunno about respectfully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

as for the group being steamrolled by IWAY, they must have sucked pretty bad, because that build should own IWAY completely...

"Should" being the operative word.

mortalis doleo · Nov 05, 2005, 01:45 PM // 13:45

im not posting my build because i'm still testing it, and i don't wanna get flamed by people like you (unavoidable, apparently).

as for the "should" comment, i dont see why it needs to be there... that team was filled with bad players = they lost to an IWAY with an anti-IWAY build.

JYX · Nov 05, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

im not posting my build because i'm still testing it, and i don't wanna get flamed by people like you (unavoidable, apparently).

Do I know you?...I'm gonna go ahead and say you don't know me either. Don't generalise, it makes you look simple. See, this is a build section, saying you prefer something else entirely and then failing to post the entire thing gets you flames. Posting a bad build gets you suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

as for the "should" comment, i dont see why it needs to be there... that team was filled with bad players = they lost to an IWAY with an anti-IWAY build.

You don't know that team either. Or the IWAY team that fought them. I'm especially tired of the wide grouping of IWAY people appear to apply to any group who uses 3+ warriors with IWAY. Its only one skill, there are many, many permutations of your standard IWAY group. Some of them can be fairly balanced, albeit there are certain problems associated with running a large number of warriors in any given group. Again I cannot comment specifically on how your particular team build will run against IWAY since you refuse to post it, though I can assure you an 8 monk team spiking with Judgement/sigbuffs will not be the answer to all IWAY combinations.

Post your build. Then we'll talk.

mortalis doleo · Nov 05, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

my idea of a normal IWAY is 6 W/R (or one ranger who replaces a warrior), a tainted necro and an order necro (the necros are nuking too, with maelstrom probably).

a good group of monks, using a healing ball (the counter to IWAY) are a great counter to that build. as for nuking the ball, assuming the team uses TS, the leader should just say "left" or "right", and everyone runs as a group to that direction.

ill post my build, but im still working on it... i still think it can be very effective when ran in TS... as all good spike builds should:

1. healer mo/r:
heal area
healing seed
winter
hex removal spell
*rest are'nt as crucial as these four*

2. healer mo/e:
healing seed
spell breaker <e>
heal area
ward vs foes (optional)
hex removal spell
*rest aren't crucial*

3. life bonder mo/?:
life bond
balthasar's spirit
succor
blessed signet
aegis
RoF
mend ailement
martyr
*this buid is changable, i just use this build myself... so i'm used to it*

4. smiter mo/me
sig of judgement
mantra of signets
arcane mimicry
mantra of frost
banish
bane signet/balthasar's aura
smite hex
res sig/light of dwanya (this is a ball group, so one of the smiters should get light of dwanya imo).

5, 6, 7, 8 same as the smiter.

the idea:
ball up. if nuked, move together.
when the battle starts, the life bonder (who runs succor on the healers) gets seeded and spell breaker is put on him. this means that if *anyone* is damaged phisically, everyone is healed... this can only be removed by chillbanes (rare) and profane (a weakness for this build).
the spikers attack the biggest group of enemies they see (bunched up), and go mantra of sig - sig of judgement x2 (then mantra of frost). another move is going for a single target and doing sig of judgement - banish, for faster spiking.
spikers use arcane mimicry when they can, to open up another spike option...

if something like ignorance is put on a smiter, it needs to be removed asap (smite hex or something else).

winter needs to be on for mantra of frust to be effective (Emanagement and ele spike protection).

i think it is pretty solid:
smiters do not need energy, and they spike with an aoe spell (similar to FoC spiking).
the healing seed is almost guaranteed to last.
condition and hex removals are covered.
elemental damage is reduced by a lot, when winter is up.
the monks can spike three times in a row, possibly taking out a few targets for each spike (arcane mimicry, mantra of signets, signet of judgement).
if ward vs foes is up, the group can play with balthasar'a aura for more damage vs warriors.

the life bonder is protected well, as are the rest of the players.

EDIT:
almost forgot! maelstrom has no effect against the signets of the smiters...

what do you think?

rii · Nov 05, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Firstly, about the team i faced. It wasnt a healing ball, it was a lot of healing and protection, inspiration and smiting. Most of the team was me/mo, but its fairly similar in execution, just with better al and slightly less healing. In fact, tell truth, it wasnt iway that i beat it with. I had been running iway all night, but this group was one of those random euro pugs where you just get 8 people and go. Which puts the build down even further tbh. They spiked our air ele, and then in the 15s waiting for the recharge, we killed around 4 of them who were ressed. They then spiked again on a monk who was ressed, and we then killed another 6 of them, with their resses running low/gone - they were quite focused smiters, and had quite good coordination. However, healing touch proved too much for them, and after a half hearted final third spike we finished them off. We had 2 mo/e, 1 mo/me, 1 w/r, 1 w/mo, 1 r/e, 1 e/me, and a me/n. I still had a pet and no ias beyond iway, since they didnt let me change my skills.

As for your build, a few obious starters:

- Winter will get owned the second its seen.
- mo/r has no decent energy management.... draw conditions meladrus might work against trap teams and so on, but i still think its a bit crap. Heal area is also not great.
- mo/e also has no reasonable energy management that isnt going to get rended to hell.
- why spellbreaker? most teams are warrior or ranger orientated, unless im missing something. Its not worth it just to cover healing seed tbh.
- life bonds dont work against people who know what enchantment removal is. Succor wont be enough for the rest of your team really. In my team, im taking bip as just enough :S
- 'spike' is defined as enough damage to kill in the space of less than a second. That means, and i assumed at the start, that all of your char are taking sig of judgement, since even at level 16 smiting you still need 7 peole to actually make a spike. (assuming 500 health, 16 smite gives 79 damage, 500/79 = 6.3... thats 7 total, since otherwise they would have some health left) You have 5, which isnt going to spike anyone, Since judgement has a 2s casting time in the time it takes for you to cast it the second time the enemy should be back to full health or the enemy monks should be shot.
- arcane mimicry has a 60s cooldown. Whats to do in the time in between?
- against a good team healing seed will be a mere annoyance.
- apart from that, you dont really have anything id call a 'healer' and so eveyone is going to die. really fast.

as for your 'reasons its solid':

- at least foc kills them
- balthazars aura, banish, mantra and mimicry all need energy
- winter wont be up
- they wont take out anyone

EDIT: I noticed this the second i exited: mantra of frost and mantra of signets are both stances arent they? Thats a real drain on energy to maintain sporadic prot and crappy and sporadic energy management.

mortalis doleo · Nov 05, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

nothing constructive... but here goes:

- winter isn't a neccesity, it just help with E management and with protection. it will be near the group, so warriors wont be able to get to it, since the smiters are there.
- mo/r and mo/e are both succored by the life bonder, and are both healers, so there are "healers".
- the healing seed on the life bonder, makes the group almost invulnerable for the entire duration. he is life bonding, so anyone who is attacked gets the life bonder "damaged", which feeds the healing seed. spell breaker keeps the life bond up...
- an enemy team cant remove all of the life bonds, and those can be recast quite easilly.
- you attack a group of, say, 3 enemies. 5x79, that means all take 395 damage. the smiters follow up with banish, main target dies, two left with low health. all in 1 second exactly.
- as for arcane mimicry, it is there to give you another charge of soj, to have quicker kills. in between you use your ordinary charges of soj, banish and bane sig/balth.
- if most groups consist of warriors and rangers (your words, not mine), if an attack will cause, say 80 damage (most do less damage), then it wil do 40 due to life bond. then all players in the group wil gain 25 health (i think that is it). that means that that character took 15 damage, and the rest of the group gained health. the target can be easily healed as well...
- the mo/e and the mo/r are healers. the ward vs foes isnt neccesary, and it leaves each monk 4 slots for healing spells, one being heal area.

as for why it's solid:
- this, just like FoC spiking, kills them.
- energy which is gined through mantra of frost. in addition, they have time to regain energy while using the signets. balthasar's aura won't be used much, if at all... it is not the main damage dealing skill in the build.
- winter will be up at some times, and killing it wil mean getting through the smiters. if a team is that anxious to kill the spirit, then let them... they are not killing the core of this build, and they are getting closer and into the smiter's range.
- once again... they will take out enemies...

as for the two mantras:
mantra of frost only needs to be used if the enemy is using more than a couple of elementaists, and when they are using them, the protection won't be crappy...
the entire winter-mantra of frost combo isn't neccesary, it just helps against ele spikers. in most battles you won't need them, but i think its nice to have the option...

i said the build is still under development, and you seem to look at it as a finished build.
i dont have enough chances to try this build out, because it's too complex for a PUG, and my guild does not have enough monks.
this build can be changed, but this is a general idea...

BannyD · Nov 05, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

i kind of like the build actually...just i would make whomever is taking spell breaker use blessed aura...that life bonder needs to stay up as long as possible

also...a simple skill that will destroy this: signet of wariness

mortalis doleo · Nov 05, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

well, the smiters don't need energy, so that only hurts the life bonder and the healers...

what really hurts this is primal echoes and rust, because they are on all the party members...

but every build has a counter... imagine this against FoC spiking

20 seconds and its gg...

Schorny · Nov 05, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

The problem is: you need to ball up. And to beat balls is easy.

The spike is nice and it works - but the ball up thing destroys it IMHO

mortalis doleo · Nov 05, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

if by beating a ball you mean nuking and aoe attacks, that is a weakness for this build...
but a good team using TS or vent can quickly react and move to the left or to the right.
also, speels like meteor shower and maelstrom take a long time to cast (glyph of sacrifice ftw), so something like soj will interrupt them (this means aiming at the possible nukers).

edit:
the winter + mantra of frost cuts the nuking almost in half... that is another reason to use that.

Guardian of the Light · Nov 06, 2005, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Nice build however It might fall to my own build
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=74121
The reason being is that area of effect of 100 blades attack may greatly destroy your team and also life bond might redirect a lot of that area of effect to you and might kill you fast.

However I could be wrong and you counter Warrior stuff might greatly hurt us.

rii · Nov 06, 2005, 09:55 AM // 09:55

- succor is nowhere near enough energy management. The average monk simulates via energy management skills about 2-3 extra pips of energy. and yes, it is a lot of difference. If you only needed one extra pip, i would use peace and harmony and take /e secondaries for wards, and /w secondaries for watch yourself! and all kind of weird stuff. However, it isnt, so either I use bip or i use /me.
- you say only use winter against ele teams.... then you go on to say that the spirit will be protted against warriors since your smiters will stand next to it. Surprisingly, a team containing several eles will just nuke the spirit to hell the second, i mean the second its seen. Its also very bad energy management. If the other team attacked each of your smiters with mantra of frost individually, then of course your going to win, because they suck. And then youd get good energy management. However, they will spike one target, meaning that most of your players get zilch.
- Healing seed does not, i repeat not, make the team invunerable. If i see healing seed, its either swap targets (which granted doesnt work here) or stand around and wait for it to fall off. But wait, swapping targets does work due to my amazing next point:
- your enchants are going to get ripped up. No, they arent easily recast. I play a lifebonder a lot, and its frankly hassle putting maintained's back on targets, although i always get away with it. Whats going to happen is:

- battle begins, you run in. O look, an ele, put up winter! *winter spirit gets nuked* O noes!, there goes half our prot and energy managment. *rend happens* o noes, there goes succor, life bond on a target!, thats a 4s recast + aftercast! *teammate gets spiked, and since your prot monk is casting maintained enchants he cant rof or prot spirit, meaning said teammate gets it in the face* *if he doesnt recast and goes for a rof, then your maintained's are effectively wasted since they arent on them, and its down to a prot monk vs a spike. Frankly, most teams prot monk is not good enough to stop that. Even if they are, the situation has now degraded into as i said, prot monk vs spike team, and constant pressure will eventually lead to you loosing... why? Because they wont let you have life bond on the target, theyll focus on him, meaning the life bond isnt triggering any energy for you, meaning eventually your prot monk will have no energy, and the next time they spike the target will simply buckle. Rinse and repeat.
- As for your spike: 'Prot Spirit' is all that needs to be said. a team without enchantment removal is a crap team except for pure gaze spikers i think, which kill regardless.

as for a few other points:

- using signets is not energy management. Its simply wasting time.
- why the hell do you have a skill your not going to use much? If you have redundent skills your frankly punching yourself in the stomach... there is always something you can put in, there is never a time when you can say 'well theres nothing i really need', unless your blind
- they wont take out jack without a lot of luck

basically, your entire team gets rolled by enchantment removal and warriors/rangers.. o yeah and eles, since unless they are actually water (a big gamble) winter is.... i dont think you understand how fast it will get owned. It also gets owned by a man who can press 'prot spirit' since you have no enchantment removal<<<

any chance of some comments on op

?

mortalis doleo · Nov 06, 2005, 10:38 AM // 10:38

i commented to op in my first reply, kinda

here we go again:
- energy management is up to you really, if you want to use bip, go ahead. 5 pips of energy is better than 4, and it does help.
- most teams have a warrior for relic runs, and for an ele to nuke winter (which is behind the group), he will have to come really close to the group. if he does take winter out, he is still going to die, since the smiters will take him out.
- a team cannot rend two targets unless they use two enchantement removers (most teams do not). this means that they might kill one target (rending + spiking), but the rest are still bonded and will trigger the seed.
- a protector can recast the life bond, and then the seed will get triggered. if you want, the protector can put prot spirit instead of something there (restore conditions instead of martyr, or instead of aegis).

- as for prot spirit against my spike: the spike is aoe, 2 or more characters should get damaged, so something will die (you follow with banish).

- signet isn't energy management, it reduces the smiter's need for energy. in addition, sig of judgement is the way this build attacks, so it isnt wasting time...
- if you do not like the winter+mantra combo, don't use it! you can switch it for anything you want, i just thought it is a nice idea, since you already are part mesmer.
- the damage is sufficiant to kill a character, and since it is aoe, the 2-3 characters that are attacked cant all be healed and protected, so you could even double cast the sig, and at least one character should drop.

- if you want enchantement removal, be my guest. have the mo/e be /n and get him to rend someone.
- if you really hate winter, frozen soil is an option (i know... it's a spirit).

i think this build has the potetial to take hoh. it is only weak in relic runs...

as for the 1000 blades, your build will actually heal my team for any hundered blades attack:
say you hit 4 characters with hundred blades, with 2 W/E and 2 W/Mo.
this means five attacks were made per hundred blades. 10 of those feed the healing seed.
say you hit for 60 damage per swing. the W/Mo will do 30 damage.
now i dont wanna calculate, cause i dont wanna

but everyone in the monk team will be healed for 250 health aprox. yes, there is the orders and the conjures, but the damage should be healable.
in addition, you warriors will be close together - good targets for the smite.

rii · Nov 06, 2005, 11:09 AM // 11:09

* bangs head on table * actually, youve contributed nothing, youve just given me high blood pressure (-.-) and jacked my thread with...this:

- ok... lets use bip.... where are you going to put it? it cant go on the smiters since they're using inspir and smite skills, and if you put it on a healer they cant use it on themselves. If you want to use two copies of bip then you loose either martyr or spell breaker, and a) you loose breaker, you have no 'ub4h combo' and so i rend your healing seeder, spike him, and your gone 'gg'. b) no martyr, you run into a condition team and you loose.

Whatsmore, i was talking gvg, and you came in and posted tombs build. Even MORE unrelated. In tombs, when i have enough people, im going to flood it with hench teams and then stroll into hoh via superiority of numbers and better skill sets -.-

- im sorry, what? your team is ranged, so it doesnt matter where the other team stand. Have you created some aura of death that means standing within 50 feet means instant death? Balth aura might be a point, but frankly you said you dont use it yourself (and if you do ill raise the point that you dont have enough energy management). Having one warrior does not mean that your spirit is immune, people usually have more than one damage source. And whatsmore, you said the warrior is a flag/relic runner. Not only is this a crap class for runner, it means he has nothing to do with the battle, so whats that got to do with the spirit?

- They rend one target ( most people carry *shock* more than one copy of rend, and if they dont they deserve to loose), kill him, and dont hit anyone else! the fact that lifebond is on everyone else is COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS. You seem to be missing that point. 10s later, another target gets rended and also dies.

- Of course he can recast, but its a 2s casting time. The point i made is that in those 2s the target your lifebonding will be dead. More specifically, he'll be dead in 1s. And, the other point you glossed over, is that there is noone else on your team with prot skills, so the target your currently lifebonding has zero chance of survival.

- people dont stand right next to each other. You might hit one other person if your very lucky, but aside from healing balls it is just not going to happen. Dont bother to refute that, its a fact beyond idiots.

- The amount of energy gained from using a signet is merely the amount of time you dont spend casting. This is small, and so its frankly pointless to talk about it.

- Its not a nice idea. What do you propose instead? I know, how about some real energy management?

- Relying on it being aoe is stupid. Its a very small area and the one target you do go for will be protted. Spike negated.

- you want to give enchant removal to a healer? Your not going to be able to have high curses since you already need other attributes high, and so if that is the monk getting spiked your actually going to half kill yourself, which they will no doubt capitalize on. Whatsmore, its a 3s casting time in which your not casting, you will only have one copy of, and although its slighty niche your likely to be interrupted anyway.

- Why have a spirit at all? Its going to die. Even in pugs we manage to take them all out if i spam call it enough. :/

Any chance of some actual criticism on the op for the xth time? And a reason why its still reasonable to use warrior spike when at current one character can take out 3 with reasonable ease?

JYX · Nov 06, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

Any chance of some actual criticism on the op for the xth time? And a reason why its still reasonable to use warrior spike when at current one character can take out 3 with reasonable ease?

No. No you can't. Plus you only really need 2 warriors for a "spike". Leaves you free to do other stuff.

rii · Nov 06, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

No, i meant that say if you used 3 warriors, which is really the maximum amount, one guy could still disable all of them to a large degree. Whether you actually use 3 warriors is besides the point.