Curse

Alpha Moth · Oct 18, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

I need a good tank build for FOW for war/mo

When every i am in TaO, most groups have 2 warriors. 2 ele/echo nuker, 2 monks, 1 necro, maybe another monk ele or ranger.

Now, wat i need is the tank build for waiors, since they do least dmg.(other then monk).

are there skillz all evading skillz etc,

Plz post your fav here,

And yes, i tried search button, but i would like a direct response

Rico Carridan · Oct 18, 2005, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Pretty much any standard W/Mo tank build should work fine. Take roughly 4 damage skills, sprint, res sig, healing sig, and if you want to be really nice to your team, something like smite hex for when you get spiteful spirit on.

Rico

koren · Oct 18, 2005, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Go W/E instead and bring obsidian flesh. Run into any group of casters first and watch them spam all their spells and waste their energy making them an easy and painless kill for the nukers.

striderkaaru · Oct 18, 2005, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Carridan

Pretty much any standard W/Mo tank build should work fine. Take roughly 4 damage skills, sprint, res sig, healing sig, and if you want to be really nice to your team, something like smite hex for when you get spiteful spirit on.

Rico

i've done a lot of tanking in fow, and i'm not quite sure i agree with this build. my reasons are as follows:

- sprint - i don't know what a tank is doing with sprint. you're not making good use of the skill if your job is to sit and take damage. it could be useful for chasing a random enemy that slips by and is going for your casters, but this can be avoided with proper aggro management. if something goes wrong and you are running away, you're not doing your job right.

- res sig - yes, i know that a good warrior is a team player and should always bring a res. however, fow is an exception. if anything ever goes wrong, you should *never* be the last one to survive. i've seen numerous battles where something went terribly wrong, and i have stayed to fight to the death to let the monk run away. if your monk is being chased, you should run over to take the aggro away from him/her and then stay to fight. always give the monks the chance to run away. once again, if you are the last person alive, then you aren't doing your job properly.

- healing sig - it's not good to have -40 armor while tanking damage. i won't even get into this. the only time it is acceptable is when you have maxed out armor of earth on, which is what i do on my w/e. a w/mo has better options of healing. you could always run back a little to cast this, but then you're not tanking the aggro. this gives the shadow warriors/abyssals/berserkers a chance to get to your squishies.

- smite hex - this one is okay. and although it is a good idea, spiteful spirit is rarely ever the top hex on you. it usually gets covered with mark of pain pretty quickly. but this one is up to you. i see nothing wrong with it.

to OP, here are my suggestions:
you should invest in 3 attribute lines. pick your weapon mastery, then choose between protection/healing and strength/tactics.

prot/healing - protection is for reducing damage, while healing is for healing damage. choose which one you want. either is good for tanking.

strength/tactics - strength is good for "i will survive" and dolyak signet. these two skills are good to have for tanking in fow. tactics has a lot of evasion stances. once again, pick one.

my choice would be to go prot and strength. the idea is to reduce damage done to you with prot spells and to self-heal using "i will survive" when you have conditions on you.

Racthoh · Oct 18, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

- sprint - i don't know what a tank is doing with sprint. you're not making good use of the skill if your job is to sit and take damage. it could be useful for chasing a random enemy that slips by and is going for your casters, but this can be avoided with proper aggro management. if something goes wrong and you are running away, you're not doing your job right.

my choice would be to go prot and strength. the idea is to reduce damage done to you with prot spells and to self-heal using "i will survive" when you have conditions on you.

Sprint... how I HATE seeing warriors bringing that skill anywhere. And then when they say they don't have res just grinds my teeth...

I disagree with "I Will Survive". In FoW, the only conditions you'll be receiving come from Skeletons, and Armoured Cave Spiders. Seems like an inefficient use of a skill spot if it only has a use in one section of FoW. You'll be poisoned from Spiders all the time and at most with 14+ strength that'll only be 11 seconds. If you bring stances, you can make the Berzerker's use Wild Blow and drain all of their adrenaline thus preventing them from giving you any conditions in the first place. If you're foolish enough to let the Impalers get away Flame/Dust/Spike trap you deserve to have those conditions on you.

caldebog · Oct 18, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

could tactics/smite work? just a question.

striderkaaru · Oct 18, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I disagree with "I Will Survive". In FoW, the only conditions you'll be receiving come from Skeletons, and Armoured Cave Spiders. Seems like an inefficient use of a skill spot if it only has a use in one section of FoW. You'll be poisoned from Spiders all the time and at most with 14+ strength that'll only be 11 seconds. If you bring stances, you can make the Berzerker's use Wild Blow and drain all of their adrenaline thus preventing them from giving you any conditions in the first place. If you're foolish enough to let the Impalers get away Flame/Dust/Spike trap you deserve to have those conditions on you.

you bring up very good points.

the reason why i suggested "i will survive" is because i do find it useful in the parts where most new or casual visitors to fow will venture. abyssals cause deep wound. berserkers cause a variety of conditions. cave spiders cause poison. but more importantly, the dragons stack multiple conditions. "i will survive" might not negate conditions like poison, but it certainly helps give the monks a bit of breathing room. every little bit of healing helps.

i agree that if one goes in with tactics, then he should bring stances. however, if somebody wanted to go with strength, then "i will survive" is a skill definitely worth looking at. it's a matter of personal preference, and i was just giving more options.

Racthoh · Oct 19, 2005, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Ah, forgot about the dragon lich, and generally that area does bring about some problems. You'll be dazed, poisoned, diseased almost the entire time. And, if your other party members are slightly foolish and insist on dropping conditions on the dragon (who has plague touch) you'll be in even more trouble.

Although I suppose what it comes down to can your group handle one level 30 creature with a nasty Ether Breaker right there with you. It would make for a nice screenshot though; little warrior up against massive dragon screaming I Will Survive!

Also, about deep wound from the abyssals, Dolyak Signet is their bane.

capitalist · Oct 19, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Strider gets my vote as the ultimate FoW tank.

Racthoh · Oct 19, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

I've been looking through the protection lines and I'm not sure I would consider running it on myself.

Reasons being that in areas when I am taking more damage than my self-heal can handle, there is usually a mesmer enemy around. Every memser enemy in the Fissure of Woe uses Shatter Enchantment, which will hit you for 100 damage with no way to reduce it outside of enchantments themselves. Unless you're stacking something on top of Protective Spirit, Reversal of Fortune, or whatever else you may be throwing on yourself it won't do much good against damage that a lot of AL won't protect against when that's all you have to fall back on. Nothing worse than the monks dropping Protective Spirit and Shielding Hands just as I aggro that first group of skeletons (the one with 2 Etherbreakers and 3 Icehands) and being struck for 200 damage right off the bat.

Also, throwing them up midfight might work but in a good group you will the one taking the initial aggro anyway so you'll be target regardless. And in most groups of skeletons, expect a Maelstrom. Good luck timing those spells within a 1 second timeframe. I've also learned that spells with a 1 second cast time will still fall victim to a Cry of Frustration as well (although only the Etherbreakers use it). But, the Dryders as well cause problems. They use both Doubt and Shame, along with Shatter Enchantment. But in all honesty all you'll be fighting Seeds of Corruption with the Dryders, along with spiders so all you need to worry about is a way to neutralize the degeneration from their poison.

After you complete the first group, you can expect every mob after (or almost everyone at least) to have a mesmer in the group. When you proceed to the tower of strength, expect 4 abyssals and 2 mesmers. Slaves of Menzies? 2-3 Ancient Skales using Rend Enchantments. Expect the same thing on the beach if you decide to go there.

You need to also take into consideration the warrior's limited energy pool. I would highly advise against using an offhand of your secondary. You need your shield's 16 AL (I'm assuming you plan to tank in Fissure of Woe that you go with a good shield).

striderkaaru · Oct 19, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

once again, you bring up very good points. good job with the research.

i admit that my suggestion may have been a bit uninformed and rushed since i don't have a w/mo myself. when i go with my war/elem, i usually run an earth build for protection, and i was basing my suggestion on that. however, based on the information you have brought up, maybe it would be better for a w/mo to go healing instead of prot. perhaps other w/mo's could shed light on the builds they use in fow.

and actually, i go to fow with a hammer. it's easier to do as a w/e because i have armor of earth for added protection.

and thanks for the vote, capitalist. =)
want to head down to fow sometime to help me get my helm?

Jetdoc · Oct 19, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

strider - have you tried a less energy/enchantment dependent build?

In other words, focusing on your weapon, tactics and strength and carrying a couple of stances (I personally like shield stance and discliplined stance) and dolyak signet? If you could get away with it, you could also carry Purge Signet (if you're a W/Mo) - even though your energy will be running really low if you use it too often. Healing signet is also a possibility if your dolyak is covering the armor penalty.

This obviously is focused on blocking/armor versus damage prevention/healing, so your monk might be a little busy watching your slow health degeneration over time.

striderkaaru · Oct 19, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

strider - have you tried a less energy/enchantment dependent build?

i actually never have any energy problems and the only enchantment i bring is armor of earth. my personal fow build is different from the few suggestions i have made on this thread because i have a w/e and not a w/mo (which the OP asked for). maybe i should leave the suggestions to more experienced w/mo's instead.

and in general, i don't like going pure warrior. i usually like to incorporate some attribute line from my secondary. otherwise, what's the point of the secondary? i play pve for the fun of it and enjoy toying with builds.

with all that said, i do agree that going weapon/tactics/strength would make a pretty effective tank build.

Racthoh · Oct 20, 2005, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Fiddling around tonight... if you're looking for tank with just strength/tactics, give this a whirl:

Rebirth
Flurry
Defy Pain {E}
To The Limit!
Watch Yourself!
Shield's Up!
Healing Signet
Dolyak Signet

Strength: 10 + 1
Weapon: 12 + 1
Tactics: 8 + 4

Defy Pain, Watch Yourself, and Dolyak Signet will give a combined +72AL meaning you can safely use Healing Signet and still enjoy +32AL. Not to mention you'll be sitting with about 700 health (depending on what vigor and +health on shield/weapon).

Build up adrenaline easily with Flurry and To The Limit!, not much to it. If you just want to flat out tank, drop everything in your weapon for maxed strength and tactics. You could probably get away with a Superior Strength and Tactics as well with Defy Pain giving a huge boost to health. Best of all, nothing in the Fissure of Woe can stop 7/8 of your skills (not including Rebirth) except for Cry of Frustration, Distracting Shot, and Spirit of Primal Echoes to some extent.

I'll still have to test tactics/smite. Not a big fan of having spells with 1+ second of cast time when I'm the one taking aggro. Smite hex does have it's uses, and Symbol of Wrath will slaughter the skeletons. Energy management would be key, and I've already stated my viewpoint on enchantments so Essence Bond/Balthazar's Spirit are out of the question.

Demonstar · Oct 20, 2005, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by koren

Go W/E instead and bring obsidian flesh. Run into any group of casters first and watch them spam all their spells and waste their energy making them an easy and painless kill for the nukers.

Warriors aren't entirely fit to be an Elementalist, while they have the ability too, 20 energy with a 2 regen limits what they're capable of.

Axel Revolver · Oct 20, 2005, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonstar

Warriors aren't entirely fit to be an Elementalist, while they have the ability too, 20 energy with a 2 regen limits what they're capable of.

David, are you a retard? Obsidian Flesh is an elite armor skill, it's great for PvE, and it only takes 10 energy. Warriors don't really need energy, but for healing and some weapon skill (usually one). You deserve a slap everyday now whenever I see you at school dude.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 20, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

The best warrior tanks use every combination of stance + shout + enchant imaginable.

If I wanted the ultimate tank on my crew, I'd consider going W/E using Armor of Earth, Bonetti's/Gladiator's Defense, Dolyak Signet, and Watch Yourself!

Run 16 weapon, 9 strength, 8 Tactics, 8 earth magic ^_^

Using these 4 skills simultaneously, you stack up a LOT of AL as well as help your teammates in one big burst. You could even bring heal sig. With so much AL, blocking, monk healing you should be a breeze.

For my W/N tank, I use conditions to reduce damage rather than AL

Enfeebling Blood, Victory is Mine! {E}, Mark of Pain, Bonetti's Defense

These are my four skills of choice when I feel like bringing on the pain to an enemy mob.

striderkaaru · Oct 20, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

@racthoh
although that is a good tanking build, it's very limited in functionality. the build requires that you always have the aggro in order to be of any use. even though this aspect can be controlled, more often than not, something will go wrong. it does help in that it also gives additional party members extra AL, but the build only shines when you know you can maintain aggro. if a berserker slips by and goes after the squishies, there isn't much you can do.

also, in terms of rebirth, it doesn't really belong in the skill set. if you're supposed to take the aggro, you're supposed to go down first if anything goes wrong. i know that a lot of people want warriors to bring some type of res, but as i said before, a good tank is never the last one standing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

The best warrior tanks use every combination of stance + shout + enchant imaginable.

If I wanted the ultimate tank on my crew, I'd consider going W/E using Armor of Earth, Bonetti's/Gladiator's Defense, Dolyak Signet, and Watch Yourself!

add in a ward, such as ward vs melee, and it would be near perfect. =)

Racthoh · Oct 20, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

True that the warrior should be the last one standing, and the build is limited in functionality. Thing is, when things do go wrong I often find that I am the last one standing and it could just be the cliche w/mo if I didn't have res on me. It is very hard in a group of 7 people that I've never been with before to explain the concept of "I'll be fine, stay back here", or "RUN!". It can be difficult at times to regain the attention of a mob when panic kicks in and your allies are running around like crazy.

Originally I didn't have To The Limit!, Defy Pain or Shield's Up! in the build but they seemed like a good combination from testing. Although I didn't much like Shield's Up! as with Dolyak and Watch Yourself! I already take next to nothing (if not nothing) in terms of damage. Defy Pain... I don't like fake health, nothing worse than looking at my bar and realizing I was below the amount that Defy Pain gave me and forgetting to reapply it. In theory though, with Flurry and To The Limit! it should be easy to maintain those hits. Although it is fun to constantly spam To The Limit! inbetween fights as soon as it fills to prevent adrenaline from fading.

In which case you could probably replace those three skills with attack skills of your choice. In which case you can still function well enough to kill something (in time) and stay alive quite well. You could look at something along the lines of 1-2 self heals, 3-4 attack skills, 2-3 defensive skills, and if you don't like to leave home without it ressurection signet/rebirth. Basically if you bring 2 self heals, you wouldn't need 3 defensive skills. If you don't bring res, idealy I'd take an extra boost to my tanking capabilities whatever that may be.

striderkaaru · Oct 20, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

i just took a quick glance at the warrior skills and want to share my thoughts.

although i would never personally run a pure warrior build, one would have to bring 3-4 stances in order to tank effectively. the ones i would think of bringing are:

disciplined stance
gladiator's defense {e}
shield stance
wary stance

these are the 4 stances with universal block/evade chances, not just for melee or projectile. with those, you should be in stance almost all the time.

as mentioned already, dolyak signet and the shout "watch yourself!" are good additions. for the last two skill slots, i would put in some type of interrupt or snare. savage slash is a good choice for sword warriors.

there is no real need for self healing, since the monks will take care of that. the point of the build would be to minimize damage taken. if you really want, you can bring healing signet since you have evasion and armor bonuses from the skills.

racthoh, you're right about the lack of prot spells worth bringing. i'm also iffy about any spells from the healing line. like i said, i don't have a w/mo. maybe a more experienced w/mo can share their fow tank build.

and the reason why i take a hammer down to fow is because of its all around usefullness. knockdown is good both as an interrupt and a snare. it will also help you protect your squishies in case you don't have the aggro. a knocked down opponent is one who isn't doing any damage.