Curse

Guardian of the Light · Oct 23, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Well lets look at the timeline at first there was only one primary build the regular one 2 Warriors 1 Shutdown Mes 1 Nuker 2 Healing Monks 1 Prot Monk and somebody else. But then came to new spiker and smite builds which were not great but were just as good as the normal build. Then Came IWAY the build that changed everyone's view of new build. Of course this build did very well....too well...this build req little skill to win the first few matchs and so naturally the staff at Guild Wars was told and it's power was degraded however it had earned its place beside Spiker, Smite and Regualer build.

Then one day I see this "Need blah blah blah for test build" "New Build Need blah blah blah"

The Next day I see this
"Need sac nerco for minion factory"
"Need 2 more trappers for trap build"
Need Blah blah blah blah blah"

I like the idea of new builds but I think its hard to forget about the good old regular build and just use a bunch of all over the place builds

However I think we should document this builds and decide how good they are at offensive, defensive, Noob control(does if one guys is a noob the whole team fall?", and fall due to counter.

I'll start by putting the stats of the regular build (5 stars are max)
Offensive:**
Defensive:***
Noob control: **
Fall due to Counter:*****

by the way 5 stars means its good.

Arathorn5000 · Oct 23, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

What do you mean "regular build"? Just looks like a bland build that good players may get to work, while bad players would get rolled with. Like every build.

smurfhunter · Oct 23, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

i think he means 'balanced' when he says 'regular', so balanced would be something like 3 monks, 1 warrior, 1 elementalist, 1 mesmer, 1 necro and 1 ranger? lol.

Guardian of the Light · Oct 23, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

i think he means 'balanced' when he says 'regular', so balanced would be something like 3 monks, 1 warrior, 1 elementalist, 1 mesmer, 1 necro and 1 ranger? lol.

Well ya balanced is the word but ummm most "balanced" build have 2 warriors

Now Guys can you help me in rating builds I don't know manys of the others off the wall builds that are easy to counter (for example bring EoE to counter a IWAY and A Minion Factory build) however I do know they are pretty fun to do

smurfhunter · Oct 23, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

how does eoe counter IWAY? in alot of cases, eoe helps iway teams.

best way to counter minion builds is to kill the minion masters. then its just funny.

Guardian of the Light · Oct 23, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

how does eoe counter IWAY? in alot of cases, eoe helps iway teams.

best way to counter minion builds is to kill the minion masters. then its just funny.

Can we plese talk about how good builds are instead of how accurate my counters are

DeepFyre · Oct 23, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

lol ...

smurfhunter · Oct 23, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

im not even sure what your talking about in the first place

Ghost. · Oct 23, 2005, 11:02 PM // 23:02

i think when he means regular build, he means that when these builds weren't so in depth

smurfhunter · Oct 23, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

oh. so what about the super gay mesmer build from like 2 posts down, is that a regular build?

Ghost. · Oct 23, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

oh. so what about the super gay mesmer build from like 2 posts down, is that a regular build?

nah that's another build that seems stupid and was probably made recently

smurfhunter · Oct 23, 2005, 11:13 PM // 23:13

ummm i cant think of any other builds then. i mean im planning on making the super gay monk build but i havent come up with it yet so...

Guardian of the Light · Oct 24, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Well Guys I'm talking about builds that people actually use in HoH like the spiker group and Smiter Group before all the new builds came and totally changed how the HoH game was played.

Wosco · Oct 24, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Waiting for someone to give you a build to use? Grab a snickers.

Morganas · Oct 24, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

Well ya balanced is the word but ummm most "balanced" build have 2 warriors

Now Guys can you help me in rating builds I don't know manys of the others off the wall builds that are easy to counter (for example bring EoE to counter a IWAY and A Minion Factory build) however I do know they are pretty fun to do

No, balanced builds have no warriors. The guild I'm in doesn't use them unless we form our entire build around it, because they get countered too easily. Warriors are awesome offensively, but they really don't work well unless you have enough snares to support them all, and shutdown to counter their aegis chain, really good condition removal, and god help you if they like running their monks through trapped ward against foes and melee. Now it's pretty reasonable to bring all of these things, but if you don't bring warriors at all, you no longer need martyr, excessive snares, or the slim hope that they won't bring an earth ele.

White Designs · Oct 24, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

No, balanced builds have no warriors. The guild I'm in doesn't use them unless we form our entire build around it, because they get countered too easily. Warriors are awesome offensively, but they really don't work well unless you have enough snares to support them all, and shutdown to counter their aegis chain, really good condition removal, and god help you if they like running their monks through trapped ward against foes and melee. Now it's pretty reasonable to bring all of these things, but if you don't bring warriors at all, you no longer need martyr, excessive snares, or the slim hope that they won't bring an earth ele.

Nope. Why do you think there is so much warrior hate? Because Warriors are insanely good. To really shut down a warrior, you need all, not some of the things you mentioned. Constant Aegis will help but stuff like Irresistable and Swift Chop are very good, not to mention a Warrior's Cunning spike will kill, same goes for Ward Melee. Conditions aren't really a problem as a Martyr or some mends easily takes care things. And a Earth ele isn't very common, because well, a pure earth ele is not very good in most situations.

Now keep in mind that all of those are indeed excellent counters to warriors. But you cannot just cast constant aegis and expect enemy warriors to suddenly become a non-factor in the game. You need to kite in addition and do everything else properly to reduce the effects the enemy warriors have.

Balanced teams definitely have 1-2 warriors, because Warriors provide things that no other class can, such as provide constant pressure on the enemy and force movement, as well as provide a means to punish enemy targets that extend to far (primarily in GvG). Consider this, take your all-caster/ranger team and go up against a team with no warrior counters but all anti-caster and ranger defense like shield's up, spellbreaker, obsidian flesh etc. Whether or not that team is good remains to be seen, but if you don't have warriors you will have a hard time dealing damage.

Now of course this doesn't mean every team needs warriors. All-caster teams are strong, ranger spike teams work, but in no way can you considered them balanced. If you are looking to create a balanced team, incorporate a warrior since they are a dimension of the game that cannot be emulated with anything else.

Morganas · Oct 24, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I agree with almost everything you said, teams built around warriors are extremely good. I'm just saying that if you want to make a "balanced" build that's not entirely centered around the warrior class, you shouldn't take warriors at all.

If you take warriors along, you have to put a great deal of though into how you're going to support them. Caster or ranger mixed teams don't require this.

stumpy · Oct 24, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Usually balanced builds dont require certain professions, just certain 'roles' that benefit the group, the rest is down to team play and cohessiveness. Granted luck has a small role too. Here is an example...

1 Snare/Interrupter
1 Prot Monk
2 Healers bringing hex removal
1 Corpse exploiter/enchanted stripper
1-2 Damage dealers
1 Support

Now you can run any variation of builds to fill these roles ... but I will give you a sample build I have seen a high ranked guild that often holds the halls run ... I just cant give you there skills ...

3 rangers (damage/interrupts/... possible snare)
1 ele/nec warder snare (support and snare)
1 Mes/Mo (enchant stripper+)
1 Port Monk
2 Heal Monks

the ele can run necro secondary to fill corpse claiming as well.

based on your ranking system ... the build itself has been very effective, but it all comes to your team skill ... good players can play anything well ... I would rate this build as ...

Offensive:***
Defensive:*****
Noob control: ****
Fall due to Counter:*

my rating means high defense, moderate offense, could be more powerful, coordinated teams can kill noobs easily ... failure due to 1 person not understanding how he helps the team, and his job in the battle, and how his battle plays out ... severe ... cause it is not easy and requires team coordination.

smurfhunter · Oct 24, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

another reason warriors are so dam annoying is because no one talks about *killing* an annoying warrior, they talk about *countering*. the reason? theyre not squishy, and with a monk healing the warrior there arent that many spikes that can take him down. unless, ofcourse, he uses frenzy >.<

Guardian of the Light · Oct 24, 2005, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Ok I think some things are unlclear here want I ment by the normal or balanced build was the normal or common build found in HoH which can be recognized by most and doesn't really have a name it is 1-2 warriors and 2-3 monks and some slots to fill in the spots. Noobs and Pros alike use this. However this build can be improved and degraded depended how you fill in the slots and if the team uses not needed but very good to have people to fill in the rest of the slot (i.e. a shutdown mes). This Build can work for PvE and PvP however there are many different versions of it due to it not calling anything in particular.

Also I think I should explain each of the stats on the rating system I don't think u gusy know what I mean

Offensive: this mean how powerful a build is to kill his oppents quickly and effectively.
Defensive: This means how good is the build at defending or healing or having the ability to stay alive.
Noob Control: This is means if you got a Noob who can't do much how bad is your team going to be hurt by the lost role. For Example a W/R in an IWAY build that is a noob can't really hurt the team if everyone else know what thier doing and can make up for the lost in skill in the one W/R, on the other hand if any role in a Minion Factory group is owned by a noob the whole team is weakened and can't do very much in creating minions. *****means 1 noob won't really hurt the whole them
Counter Control This mean how many counters are there to the build and if there are any how bad will this counter hurt the team. For Example in a minion factory build if Frozen Soil is dropped then the rezmers can't res the sac nercos making the build be crushed because of no minions to protect them.