Curse

Neo-LD · Oct 18, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

hoh or gvg id go inspiration cus of the huge variety of spells and specifically channeling cus there are so many people around.

jesh · Oct 18, 2005, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Stay away from mantra of recall + Contemplation of purity combo. CoP is sometimes good for other purposes, but mantra of recall is a bad energy management elite. The energy return after using those two skills is very poor. You also need a 15e. initial investment in order to get the return, which might not be available at all times.

E-drain (and e-tap) is also a poor choice. Edrain's energy denial is now minimal, its recharge time is twice that of offering of blood, even its cast time is interruptible.

Channeling is good at times, but those times are few and far between. In order to get the benefit out of that skill, you have to stay within proximity of enemies. As a monk, you always want to distance yourself from your enemies as much as possible, so trying to take advantage of channeling can be very dangerous.

The way I usually play a standard monk, if I don't need a monk elite, I'll take offering of blood and sometimes signet of devotion for energy management. If I do need a particular elite, I'll go mesmer secondary for drain enchantment and inspired hex.

OoB is well and good, but you seem to have forgotten you're thinking of OLD DATA. The new mantra of recall is much better, and once you get used to it, you don't need to bring contemplation. That combined with inspired hex beats out Oob.

Red Locust · Oct 18, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

OoB is well and good, but you seem to have forgotten you're thinking of OLD DATA. The new mantra of recall is much better, and once you get used to it, you don't need to bring contemplation. That combined with inspired hex beats out Oob.

What Mantra of recall are you talking about? Because the one I'm talking about gives ~23e. at 10 inspiration, meaning a net 13e. boost every 21s for 1.86 pips of energy. It also combines terribly with +%enchant mods, requires a 10e. initial cost, and it gives you the boost 20+s. later, which is just unacceptable. You can't predict 20s. in advance when you'll need the energy boost, and you certainly don't want a enchant strip to give you back that 23 energy before you have the room for it. So you run contemplation, which ends up giving you a total of 8e every 21s.

Compare to OoB; At 10 blood, a net 11e. boost every 15.25s for 2.16 pips of energy. That first sentence alone puts OoB ahead of mantra.
Then you factor in OoB's initial cost of only 5e, the fact that you get the boost instantly, in 0.25s, and OoB just flat out wins. Even with inspired hex, OoB will still be ahead, and it only takes 1 slot.

Conclusion? When you're running an energy management elite, you run OoB, unless you have 3 empty slots with nothing to fill them, in which case you go mesmer and stack up on those inspiration skills. I've never had a problem with filling in monk skill slots (quite the opposite, in fact), so I usually go with OoB.

edit: about the health loss, it just takes a little time to figure out when to use it and when not to use it. If you're getting attack, don't use it...if you're not, use it. 40something damage means nothing when you're not being targetted. Heck, if you are being targetted, I don't think you're gonna spend a couple of seconds looking for a target to e-drain or drain enchant and doing so.

damocles · Oct 18, 2005, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Just run Inspired Hex and Channeling and the rest Heal or Prot skills works for me I am at a constant 35 energy..

Arcador · Oct 18, 2005, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Some predicting skills can make essence bond and balthazar's spirit quite usefull, but sometimes you can just waste energy using them.

jesh · Oct 18, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

What Mantra of recall are you talking about? Because the one I'm talking about gives ~23e. at 10 inspiration, meaning a net 13e. boost every 21s for 1.86 pips of energy. It also combines terribly with +%enchant mods, requires a 10e. initial cost, and it gives you the boost 20+s. later, which is just unacceptable. You can't predict 20s. in advance when you'll need the energy boost, and you certainly don't want a enchant strip to give you back that 23 energy before you have the room for it. So you run contemplation, which ends up giving you a total of 8e every 21s.

Compare to OoB; At 10 blood, a net 11e. boost every 15.25s for 2.16 pips of energy. That first sentence alone puts OoB ahead of mantra.
Then you factor in OoB's initial cost of only 5e, the fact that you get the boost instantly, in 0.25s, and OoB just flat out wins. Even with inspired hex, OoB will still be ahead, and it only takes 1 slot.

Conclusion? When you're running an energy management elite, you run OoB, unless you have 3 empty slots with nothing to fill them, in which case you go mesmer and stack up on those inspiration skills. I've never had a problem with filling in monk skill slots (quite the opposite, in fact), so I usually go with OoB.

edit: about the health loss, it just takes a little time to figure out when to use it and when not to use it. If you're getting attack, don't use it...if you're not, use it. 40something damage means nothing when you're not being targetted. Heck, if you are being targetted, I don't think you're gonna spend a couple of seconds looking for a target to e-drain or drain enchant and doing so.

Oob @ 10 blood = 16 energy at the cost of 5, 11 net energy, every 15 seconds. This comes out to .7333 energy per second.

Mantra of Recall @ 10 inspiration = 23 energy at the cost of 10, 13 net energy, every 20 seconds. This comes out to .65 energy per second.

Seems pretty obvious which one is better, right? Well OoB sacrifices hp.. and the mantra has a higher cost up front, and you have to wait for it. Now think about this: You're using inpiration. Unlike blood, you get channeling, inspired hex, drain enchant, power leak, god knows what else. I usually only take inspired hex. Now let's add that to the mix.

Inspired Hex @ 10 inspiration = 11 energy at the cost of 5, 6 net energy, ever 20 seconds. This comes out to .3 energy per second. Now add that to Mantra of Recall. You get .95 energy per second, and hex removal on top.

I realize that not every one can just pick up inspiration and be effective with it, because it does take some getting used to. Saying that an elite is ineffective when it isn't, however, is another matter. Going mesmer secondary also gives you hex breaker. You do your thing, and I'll do mine.

-about the 20 second comment- That's about as smart as saying, "OMG OoB is a pos! You can never tell 15 seconds in advance when you'll need it! It might be recharging!"

Give me a break. 5 seconds more isn't a million times harder to predict. If you're getting your enchants broken all the time, then just cast when you need the energy, simple.

neoflame · Oct 19, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

The biggest reason I don't like MoR is that you have two choices when using it: you can choose to lock yourself down to waiting 20/22s after casting it before you gain any energy, or you can choose to use CoP and gimp your energy recovery anyway.

The difference between recharge and cast is that you can certainly wait to cast OoB until you need it, but you can't do that as effectively on MoR.

Signet of Humility · Oct 19, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

for energy management
use Channeling as ive seen and thinking
its effect is Ward Size
so yes its pretty good as a monk in pvp

smurfhunter · Oct 19, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Signet of Humility

for energy management
use Channeling as ive seen and thinking
its effect is Ward Size
so yes its pretty good as a monk in pvp

what ive started to like less and less about channeling is that alot of people use drain enchantment for energy management, and instead of tabbing through a list of people they just camp a monk using channeling. this is horribly annoying since you have to keep recasting it. and if you forget its like... crap im at 2 energy... do i put up channeling when im at 5 energy or do i save mr leroy whos getting owned...

Signet of Humility · Oct 19, 2005, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

what ive started to like less and less about channeling is that alot of people use drain enchantment for energy management, and instead of tabbing through a list of people they just camp a monk using channeling. this is horribly annoying since you have to keep recasting it. and if you forget its like... crap im at 2 energy... do i put up channeling when im at 5 energy or do i save mr leroy whos getting owned...

i seriously dont like drain enchant..
good peopel use channeling / inspired hex in tombs
and when im at 2 energy and when someones dieing thats why we have a prot dont we
still theres no point to hate channeling as its still 1 of the best energy management skills

Patrograd · Oct 19, 2005, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Channeling is good.

Its giving you back 1 energy for every cast for every foe within ward range. As a monk there is usually someone much closer than that, usually armed with an axe :-)

It has a cost of 5, and at just 8 inspiration thats 30 seconds worth.

Typically speaking a monk in the heat of battle will cast 20 times in that period, maybe more in some cases. Thats 15 nett energy gain every 30 seconds for each foe in range. It is rare for there to be less than one in tombs, less so in GvG perhaps. if you can skilfully position yourself (which is half the skill of a monk anyway) you can usually get three or four enemies in range. Cast way to your heart's content and save your elite spot for something monkish, there are plenty of good ones to choose from. if there isnt anyone in range during those lulls you get in GvG for instance, just dont put it on.

At 8 inspiration you are also getting a good return on inspired hex every 20 seconds and still have plenty of attrib points to put into healing, divine and/or protection as your build requires.

Dovi the Monk · Oct 19, 2005, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

echo + blessed sig + lots of maintained enchaments

best energy i've seen yet.

except for the fact that echo has a 30 second recharge, so you end up having 2 blessed signets for 20 seconds, and only 1 for 30 second, and then 2 for 20, 1 for 30, and so on. So just go with mantra of inscriptions.

Shwitz · Oct 19, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Mmmm, Mantra of Inscriptions... such a wonderful skill to combine with Blessed Signet... my PvE prot monk is hardly ever at a loss for energy using those two...

Kinda hard to run in higher level PvP though. Lots of enchantment stripping leads to my Blessed Signet netting me no energy when I use it

entropy · Oct 19, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Bah run life bond and balthazars spirit. That is great energy.

along with blessed sig I'm always at full.

Racthoh · Oct 19, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I've gone both /me and /n on my monk. In PvP, I never got a chance to use EDrain before it hit that nerf. I always used Mantra of Recall simply because I could toss it up ahead of time, and go crazy with energy for the first 20 seconds of the fight. The last thing I wanted while taking heavy hits was to have to sacrifice more health to be able to heal myself again. With Mantra of Recall gaining back half my energy when I'm starting to running low it just seemed like a great choice.

I think using CoP and Mantra though is somewhat foolish if you don't have any hexes or conditions on you. Generally, when I didn't have any hexes or conditions on me my energy was always nice and high. Nothing quite like using CoP to not only net me some energy, but remove nasty hexes like Arcane Conundrum or Migraine that turn a healing touch into an easily interruptable spell.

twicky_kid · Oct 19, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

i've used mantra of recall + arcane echo for mass energy gain on a constant flow. copy the first one cast. now if you can't "predict" 20 seconds you are an idiot seeing as there is a timer on battles and the recharge of MoR is 20 seconds. at 16-18 seconds cast contemplation to remove mantra #1 then cast mantra #2. by the time mantra #2 ends mantra #1 is recharged. recast #1 and now wait. after it ends copy it again and start process over. there is a large start up cost but after that the energy flow is on a constant 20 sec gain while giving you the option to recast if it gets removed early or need to use contemplate.

while mantra 1 is in affect i spam like crazy even if they don't need it. usually if dmg isn't getting anywhere they change targets. now i can use the energy from mantra as i have room for it. copying the mantra also allows me to use contemplate any time then cast copy mantra to put it back on.

since you are using the insperation line of of skills you have access to inspired hex and channeling to stack on the mantra.

with OoB you have.......well OoB. you pump alot of points into blood for OoB then nothing else to use. OoB is just easier to use and not have to think things out.

still nothing touches blessed sig + echo. life bond party. balth spirit yourself and let the good times roll.

twicky_kid · Oct 19, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dovi the Monk

except for the fact that echo has a 30 second recharge, so you end up having 2 blessed signets for 20 seconds, and only 1 for 30 second, and then 2 for 20, 1 for 30, and so on. So just go with mantra of inscriptions.

since you can net 20+ energy from 1 blessed sig every 10 seconds it alone is better than any option out there. add echo and it just makes it even sweeter.

Vexed Arcanist · Oct 20, 2005, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

What Mantra of recall are you talking about? Because the one I'm talking about gives ~23e. at 10 inspiration, meaning a net 13e. boost every 21s for 1.86 pips of energy. It also combines terribly with +%enchant mods, requires a 10e. initial cost, and it gives you the boost 20+s. later, which is just unacceptable. You can't predict 20s. in advance when you'll need the energy boost, and you certainly don't want a enchant strip to give you back that 23 energy before you have the room for it. So you run contemplation, which ends up giving you a total of 8e every 21s.

Compare to OoB; At 10 blood, a net 11e. boost every 15.25s for 2.16 pips of energy. That first sentence alone puts OoB ahead of mantra.
Then you factor in OoB's initial cost of only 5e, the fact that you get the boost instantly, in 0.25s, and OoB just flat out wins. Even with inspired hex, OoB will still be ahead, and it only takes 1 slot.

Conclusion? When you're running an energy management elite, you run OoB, unless you have 3 empty slots with nothing to fill them, in which case you go mesmer and stack up on those inspiration skills. I've never had a problem with filling in monk skill slots (quite the opposite, in fact), so I usually go with OoB.

edit: about the health loss, it just takes a little time to figure out when to use it and when not to use it. If you're getting attack, don't use it...if you're not, use it. 40something damage means nothing when you're not being targetted. Heck, if you are being targetted, I don't think you're gonna spend a couple of seconds looking for a target to e-drain or drain enchant and doing so.

And there you have it. Seriously this post sums it up. For those of you who INSIST on using Inspiration no valid arguement can sway you if the above quote does not. You will simply follow along like sheep bleeting out "I prefer 3-5 inspiration spells vs. 1 elite". Enjoy your multiple inspiration spells, I prefer to use Healing or Protection spells in those slots and ONE and only ONE energy management tool.

Hanuman li Tosh · Oct 20, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

OoB is good for energy management, but every calcualtion i have ever seen does not include the 5 mana it takes to heal the 50 damage you do to yourself.

example:
11/30*3=1.1 pips plus 8 energy stolen gained by Edrain
vs
11/15*3=2.2 pips for OoB
refigure for the health loss
6/15*3=1.1 pips

Dmitri3 · Oct 20, 2005, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Succor from w/mo adrenaline warrior is nice choice.
Peace and Harmony works well, cause you only need one monk with high divine favor to support 2 monks.
If you don't have any of these, I say offering of blood.