Curse

Scaphism · Aug 11, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowStorm

That is not completely correct. Without enchantment removal, I'm sure my W/N could kill one of these famous Mo/W UW solo smiters. The Key to defeating them lies in Health Degeneration. I can keep between 13 and 17 pips of degen on a character for over 11 seconds. Even if they plan to heal themselves with various healing spells (namely Healing Breeze), they have far too few hit points to keep up with 20 damage a second for 11 seconds. They'll die.

You're wrong. Here's why.
The Mo/W underworld farming build has 13 in farming and constantly runs mending. That's 4 pips of healing at all times. Healing Breeze is 8 pips. That's +12 pips of healing.

Assuming you're not BSing (which I doubt) about getting 13-17 pips (do you have 12 blood magic on your warrior primary for the third pip on life siphon?), the monk will be taking between 1 and 5 pips of degen. Are you specializing in Curses and Blood on your warrior primary? Stacking 3 hexes + bleeding on your small energy pool to get over 10 degen?
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, that's 2 to 10 damage per second, less than half your stated amount.

Yet the monk als also has divine favor. Having played the monk build, with only 105 hitpoints, it's immediately obvious why they don't use any heals like Orison. 1 orison at 13 Healing will heal for 70+ before divine favor...afterwards, for 100+. The monk only has 105 hitpoints. Orison is a waste of a skill slot unless he's near dead, but he won't be, due to Divine Favor.
Casting any spell on yourself with ~8 in divine favor (about what I run in the Underworld) will give around a 25 point heal every time the monk casts a spell on himself. As long as he casts healing Breeze once every 5 seconds, he'll negate ALL of the damage from your degen. That doesn't include self heals from Balth's Aura and Shield of Judgement.

Seriously folks, can we stop these pissing contests? Or at the very least do your research when you get involved in a comparison like this so they're not cesspools of misinformation.

Xue Yi Liang · Aug 11, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Another small factor to consider:
The Mo/W will also have farmed up more funds and would have purchased the best equipment, runes, mods, armor and weapons.

Sofia Sofia Sofia · Aug 11, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Just a quick note, max health degen is 10 pips, so the whole "I'll degen him to death" arguement is pointless because healing breeze counters that completely. Not to mention purge conditions.

Since people are all raves over the Mo/W, can anyone write up a quick PUG PvP build for this?

Scaphism · Aug 11, 2005, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofia Sofia Sofia

Just a quick note, max health degen is 10 pips, so the whole "I'll degen him to death" arguement is pointless because healing breeze counters that completely. Not to mention purge conditions.

An important distinction to note:
Degen and Regen CAP at 10 pips. That doesn't mean you can't stack more on top of it, but the effects wont be felt. However, let's say you have -12 degen on one character. He only suffers -10 pips (20 damage per second). However, if you cast a 7 pip healing breeze on him, the 7 pips of regen count against the -12 degen, not the -10 he's feeling. That leaves him with -5 degen (not -3).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofia Sofia Sofia

Since people are all raves over the Mo/W, can anyone write up a quick PUG PvP build for this?

No. Enchantment removal > Protective Bond. On top of that, the UW build is the most selfish, self-sustaining build possible. The only way to heal your team is to cast healing breeze around. But if you're not taking lots of fast melee damage, you can't regain energy. The UW build is the definition of a one trick pony- it's just that a lot of people want to see that one trick over and over and over again.

firstwave · Aug 11, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang

Sry but, to me, this discussion is like the ones kids have: "Who would win in a fight, Batman or Spiderman?" (Godzilla vs. King Kong, Mad Max vs. Steven Segal) etc.

I mean, what's the point?

Steven Segal > everything. Haven't you seen his movies? He doesn't die! Like whenever he goes up against an army, he wins because they come at him one by one. Errm, I agree with you!