Curse

Canadian · Jul 30, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

This is my FRAG Me/N build, which I love to run (I hope my version is much more unique, because it is certain effective).
Here is the FRAG Me/N build:

skills

1. fragility
2. phantom pain
3. shatter enchantment
4. shatter delusions
5. virulence
6. energy burn
7. energy tap
8. resurrection signet

stats

1 fast casting + 1 minor rune
12 illusion + 1 superior rune + 1 helmet
12 domination + 1 major rune
1 inspiration + 1 minor rune

gear

Wear the mask that gives +1 to illusion.
The rest of your gear should be the gear which gives you +energy.

how do i play it?

It's simple really:

The order of the skills is the order in which you cast them; though, there are some exceptions:

1. cast shatter enchantments only if your target has an enchantment on him
2. cast shatter enchantments at any point inbetween what you are doing to rid your foe of an enchantment (so he can't heal in the middle of your combo)
3. never cast energy tap on the target you are trying to kill; cast this on your next target before you start your combo
4. stop your combo if you don't see the purple simple indicating that your hexes are on your opponent. it is possible your opponent may counter or remove them in some way.

This combo requires a total of 60 energy, if you cast every spell (you will usually only spend 45-50 energy). You will often not need to cast your final damage dealing spell (you will usually only use shatter enchantment or energy burn). If you do need to cast a total of 60 energy worth of skills, don't worry... your energy regenerates in time for your final spell (and with a bit left over for energy tap).

When in situations where you don't have any energy left and you just killed something, I like to do one of these things:

- help my allies and use a small combo like phantom pain + shatter delusions
- remove enchantments with a spell like shatter enchantments
- drain energy with energy tap + energy burn

Finally, I'd like to note that I've actually played this... about 90% of the time this is an insta-gib. Sometimes the opponent will have a monk or two healing him, but that is probably the only exception I have had to come across yet.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 31, 2005, 05:25 AM // 05:25

It's too bad Hex Breaker alone can stuff this build.

Might want to be careful if you get targeted first, or worse, it's a W/N right next to you.

He can quickly plague touch the moment you shatter delusions and you're the one with deep wound, rendering your Virulence {E} pointless.

This build seems to have no defensive capability whatsoever. I'm supposing that's fine as some warriors enter the field with little more than heal signet if not that... Res sig? Yeah...

Just be wary of condition mongrels. People who chuck conditions as fast as they are applied. Of these are anyone who's half necro. Just watch it ^_^

mamluk · Jul 31, 2005, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Your build is not unique at all- the fragility virulence build has been popular in arena for a few weeks now.

Hex breaker can and will give this fits, wastrels worry is usually a good spell to punch through that. But I just prefer to find another target on the team.

In arena, where you need to be a bit more self-reliant, I have found going illusion and inspiration to be more effective than domination. Sure, your shatter delusions does about 30 less damage, but you get to use energy tap (not too sure why you use it with just 2 points in inspiration) and ether feast. For the final slot, I have messed around with everything from conjure phantasm to drain enchantment, they all are effective in some situations.

Neo-LD · Jul 31, 2005, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Theres kinda already a thread on this, almost the same build as yours. Might want to read through it to become familiar with possible counters to your build.

Canadian · Jul 31, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

I realise all the possible counters to my build... maybe you should re-read what I said:

"Finally, I'd like to note that I've actually played this... about 90% of the time this is an insta-gib. Sometimes the opponent will have a monk or two healing him, but that is probably the only exception I have had to come across yet."

Now, I realise there are exceptions to the insta-gib. I realise hex breaker works, I realise there is plague touch, I realise just about any way out that there is. I said "I have had to come across yet"; as in... I haven't faced anyone with hex breaker, nor anyone with plague touch or anything else. No plague signet, no plague sending, etc... I realise all these counters and more, but I haven't come across them in the past... over 100 games with this build... though I must admit I've gotten some remove and smite hexes (which come from the monks).

To the comment bashing my post about being very old, and not unique... basically a copy of whatever his link leads to: I said "I hope my version is unique, because it's certainly effective". I said I hope, I did NOT say my version IS unique.

I'd rather not go throught he possible counters to this build, because I was just dishing out some positive comments about the build, how to use it... etc. I told people about what I had to face in my games, so far. The counters should be simple and known by people. If you don't know what skills the game offers, then you don't know Guild Wars, plain and simple.

A comment I do like is about the wastrel's worry punching through hex breaker, which is very true. I used to use wastrel's worry, but never came across the hex breaker... and assumed 99% of people just don't use it. I don't bring everything to counter the person who counters me, I bring what is statistically best for helping my team... what kills the majority of people with ease.

I'd like to end this with: Try to be positive?

[edit] If you ever go 4v4 random arenas, try my build (exactly how it is). If you worry about hex breaker so much, don't go for the person with mesmer in his class. This build has been very effective. [/edit]

Eder · Jul 31, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian

Now, I realise there are exceptions to the insta-gib. I realise hex breaker works, I realise there is plague touch, I realise just about any way out that there is. I said "I have had to come across yet"; as in... I haven't faced anyone with hex breaker, nor anyone with plague touch or anything else.

So you're already aware of everything everyone has to say about possible counters to your this build. Good. What's the point of this thread, then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian

To the comment bashing my post about being very old, and not unique...

"Your build is not unique" is hardly bashing... I see no need to get defensive over that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian

I'd rather not go throught he possible counters to this build, because I was just dishing out some positive comments about the build, how to use it... etc. I told people about what I had to face in my games, so far. The counters should be simple and known by people. If you don't know what skills the game offers, then you don't know Guild Wars, plain and simple.

So, let me see if I get your logic. People who are here talking about how to counter this build are all just saying obvious things that anyone should already know... but when you come here and post about how to use this build, you're doing something else, something that is much more worth reading?

What everyone is doing is as much "BUILD DISCUSSION" as what you are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian

I'd like to end this with: Try to be positive?

People are simply telling you how your build can be countered... if by "positive" you mean "ignore the possible counters - just tell me how great my build is against whoever can't counter it" you're not looking for "build discussion" at all.

I understand you made a post to share your build so that other people might give it some thought, and decide to try it or suggest improvements and etc - but pointing out the flaws is just as important as what you did... not only because it's additional information to whoever is thinking of trying out this build, but also because you can only make improvements to a build when you know what its weaknesses are in the first place.

People are just throwing around ideas, and when you come here and say "don't start talking about the counters, I already know all of them and I never saw anybody use them" you're the one doesn't seem to be encouraging any productive discussion.

Canadian · Jul 31, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Your second quote is taken out of context... that is not what I meant to say... if you read it through you would realise that I am saying (originally) I hoped my build was unique, but I didnt know. A guy then said that by that I was saying my build is unique, and I said I wasn't saying that... you then say I'm getting mad about the guy saying it isn't unique...

You do have some good points... I'm being overly protective because it feals like people are bashing me more than not.

arredondo · Jul 31, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

They aren't bashing you... its just as the guy said you aren't posting something new. I see this build one out of every five games or so now in Team Arenas. I posted my thoughts on it awhile back (the link is above somewhere) and agree it is very strong. The defenses against it work however, and that can't be dismissed. If they can't defend it.... death. If they can, you have to use plan B. With that said, let's look at your version of the build (for Arenas).

Outside of the main exact skills you see in my post (Phantom Pain, Shatter Delusions, Fragility, Virulence), you have added some mild energy denial for support (-10 with Energy Burn, -6 with Energy Tap and an enchant shatter. Removing enchants are always a good thing to see in arenas since very few people do it. You've chosen to do it with Shatter Enchant, which of course can eat at the energy bar (15E), but the mega-combo is cheap enough to allow one indulgence if you carry 50E+ around with you. Energy Burn will allow you to really make sure they die if the main Frag+Virul combo takes hold. You won't have to wait for much PP degen that way.

Now energy is a concern at this point, as it is for most offensive Mesmers, and besides natural regen you have Energy Tap... I can't see how this helps you. It costs 5 to cast, and with only 2 in Inspiration you might net 1 or 2 energy units after 3 VERY long seconds in your cast. I use Back Fire (instead of Shatter Enchat) and that's normally a three second cast - but I put 7 in my FC stats and it really does help a lot when you are casting so much as this kind of build requires.

For the long cast and the small benefit ET gives you (a minor annoyance to the target), I think it is out of place here. Your Fast Cast is also very low (2), so if there are any interrupters around you, it's a little easier to interrupt you than most Mesmers feel comfortable with. But if it works for you (I have a build with low FC) then stick with it.

The other thing that jumps out at me on your version is that you've done what too many players do by creating a 'allas Maverick build. Why didn't I say Dallas? Because in the NBA, there is no 'D' in Dallas. You have no defense or protection of any kind. Non-stop offense will only help you for so long... eventually, opponents DO fight back. Yes, your unprotected target will go down like a house of casrds to a Frag+Virul build as people have been noticing for a few weeks, but even some Air Eles come to the realization that pure offense isn't always the best build in the long run.

My FV build in that link (Fragility+Virulence) has one defense skill and one protection skill - Distortion for melee and arrows and Illusion of Weakness for 240 points of Health Insurance. The first skill allows me to cast undisturbed by most Warriors and Rangers (who aren't special-skill interrupting me) and the second helps me live through all the rest of the madness (along with lots of kiting

).

Since that post I've made a switch that has made a lot of difference - I gave up IoW for Hex Breaker. I had to - FV builds are becoming more common and even my kiting skills can only run me for so long when I'm hexed. I can't give up the rez, so now I'm more careful with how long I stay deep in the mix without IoW to save my butt. In the end, it's all give and take, but i think that with all the offense one already gets from an FV build, MORE offense isn't necessarily a wise choice at the expense of defense and/or protection. I mean tell, me.... how many NBA rings does 'irk Nowitski have anyway?

Canadian · Jul 31, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondo

They aren't bashing you... its just as the guy said you aren't posting something new. I see this build one out of every five games or so now in Team Arenas. I posted my thoughts on it awhile back (the link is above somewhere) and agree it is very strong. The defenses against it work however, and that can't be dismissed. If they can't defend it.... death. If they can, you have to use plan B. With that said, let's look at your version of the build (for Arenas).

Outside of the main exact skills you see in my post (Phantom Pain, Shatter Delusions, Fragility, Virulence), you have added some mild energy denial for support (-10 with Energy Burn, -6 with Energy Tap and an enchant shatter. Removing enchants are always a good thing to see in arenas since very few people do it. You've chosen to do it with Shatter Enchant, which of course can eat at the energy bar (15E), but the mega-combo is cheap enough to allow one indulgence if you carry 50E+ around with you. Energy Burn will allow you to really make sure they die if the main Frag+Virul combo takes hold. You won't have to wait for much PP degen that way.

Now energy is a concern at this point, as it is for most offensive Mesmers, and besides natural regen you have Energy Tap... I can't see how this helps you. It costs 5 to cast, and with only 2 in Inspiration you might net 1 or 2 energy units after 3 VERY long seconds in your cast. I use Back Fire (instead of Shatter Enchat) and that's normally a three second cast - but I put 7 in my FC stats and it really does help a lot when you are casting so much as this kind of build requires.

For the long cast and the small benefit ET gives you (a minor annoyance to the target), I think it is out of place here. Your Fast Cast is also very low (2), so if there are any interrupters around you, it's a little easier to interrupt you than most Mesmers feel comfortable with. But if it works for you (I have a build with low FC) then stick with it.

The other thing that jumps out at me on your version is that you've done what too many players do by creating a 'allas Maverick build. Why didn't I say Dallas? Because in the NBA, there is no 'D' in Dallas. You have no defense or protection of any kind. Non-stop offense will only help you for so long... eventually, opponents DO fight back. Yes, your unprotected target will go down like a house of casrds to a Frag+Virul build as people have been noticing for a few weeks, but even some Air Eles come to the realization that pure offense isn't always the best build in the long run.

My FV build in that link (Fragility+Virulence) has one defense skill and one protection skill - Distortion for melee and arrows and Illusion of Weakness for 240 points of Health Insurance. The first skill allows me to cast undisturbed by most Warriors and Rangers (who aren't special-skill interrupting me) and the second helps me live through all the rest of the madness (along with lots of kiting

).

Since that post I've made a switch that has made a lot of difference - I gave up IoW for Hex Breaker. I had to - FV builds are becoming more common and even my kiting skills can only run me for so long when I'm hexed. I can't give up the rez, so now I'm more careful with how long I stay deep in the mix without IoW to save my butt. In the end, it's all give and take, but i think that with all the offense one already gets from an FV build, MORE offense isn't necessarily a wise choice at the expense of defense and/or protection. I mean tell, me.... how many NBA rings does 'irk Nowitski have anyway?

You have a lot of good points. I like what you've said, and almost all of it is true. Just a few minor corrections:

-Energy Tap gives a net of 4 energy gain. I bring it for getting onto another target a little quicker, as well as draining that target.
-Energy Burn is only used if I don't use shatter enchant, just do ensure a quick death. I only use it as a drainer if I'm not pulling my combo off.
-This build is designed to kill one target real quick, and be defenseless. If I get targeted by another player, I rely on heals by allies, or running. If I get enough energy back in time, I can go and hit out a target that is trying to kill me (works more often than not).

I like everything you pointed out though, :-).