Curse

Jul 20, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

OMG Blackace is posting a build!

Yea for once. This is an Arena I was using to great success, while testing some stuff out. It's an offensive monk and requires some pretty good control of movement to be able to drop spot heals. I deleted it but I'll try to post the exact attributes anyway. It's far from top notch, but it'll beat out alot of players if you keep being persistent with Diversion spam, and it'll get you used to multitasking a bit. Learn the goodness of Diversion spam, and learn the goodness of Energy Draining Rangers as they are the most problematic of clases you'll usually face.

Nine Rax Rush[iQ]

Divine Favor 8-7+1 Minor
Healing Prayers 14-12+1 Hat+1 Minor
Domination 4
Inspiration 10

This will give you a basic focus setup. If you want ot be a little more powerful on enchantments do this:

Divine Favor 10
Healing Prayer 14
Domaintion 3
Inspiration 9

You'll lose 1 point off of Energy Drain and some seconds off of Diversion and Hex Breaker but that doesn't matter. You'll gain access to a staff, and most importantly the +20% Enchantment Wrapping and an Insightful or Defensive Staff Head. Energy isn't much of a problem at all with Channeling and Energy Drain. You're not worried about stopping conditions or hexes, you're plan is to wear down the opposition through diversion spam, energy drain and your spike healing solutions. This build is slightly different in Team Arena when playing with a Boon Healer, as you can drop Healing Prayers a bit and even pop Prot Spirit in there somewhere.

Orison of Healing
Heal Other
Healing Breeze
Healing Seed
Diversion
Energy Drain
Hex Breaker
Channeling

theclam · Jul 20, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

For Arena, do you think it would be better to take Res Signet instead of Channeling? I can't imagine that you get too much energy from Channeling.

Jul 20, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Well it's debateable. I know I've dropped Channeling before, cant remember for what. Rez sig is an iffy deal and it's because of something I was thinking about: I can usually prevent enough damage to keep everyone alive unless we face some good teams. Thing is, if I put rez sig in and I'm the only monk I run a risk. But I'd take it as long as I end up on a good team where if I rez I'm confident we end up in some winning chance.

The other thought was that if we are dying too fast or I'm on a team with people that just arent good and make too many mistakes I'm wasting a skill slot. Being that this is usually the scenario I dont bring Res Sig.

Channeling I bring because it's somewhat of an energy reduction. It's not great, it's just "ok" in this setting. However if there's any skill I'd drop in a sec on this build it's Channeling, and I have before.

Acan Vishnu · Jul 20, 2005, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Two questions for you;

Do you really think that Healing Seed is a good spell for arena usage? In most cases I found that the opponents I went against in the arena never got beyond the "Bash the monk" mentality so any time I brought target other ally spells they sat on my bar the majority of the time. Its an amazing spell, but does it really fit arena style fights? (also, same question to a lesser degree as regards to heal other)

Is it that imperative to have the extra health that your forgoing a superior rune, or were you just making the build as accessible as possible?

I do like the idea behind the build though, if you slow down their offense, then you really shouldn't have to heal as much and at the same time your giving yourself plenty of energy to work with. The biggest problem that I could see it having has to be the survivability of it.

Jul 20, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acan Vishnu

Two questions for you;

Do you really think that Healing Seed is a good spell for arena usage? In most cases I found that the opponents I went against in the arena never got beyond the "Bash the monk" mentality so any time I brought target other ally spells they sat on my bar the majority of the time. Its an amazing spell, but does it really fit arena style fights? (also, same question to a lesser degree as regards to heal other)

Well Seed was an option not only because its just that good, but because I can usually take attention off of myself by running around with a Breeze and the occasional Orison. Seed also helps for those guys that end up taking a ridiculous amount of damage chains to the face, and for stopping Air Eles with Chain lightning fetishes on Warriors.

Heal Other is "great" because it's such a big healing boost in Arena when Heal Area isn't an option due to having low coordination with allies. And when managing Diversion Spam with constant Hex Breaker upkeep and running around a 200 point 3/4 second heal becomes a life saver. The weakness of the build is a general weakness of monks: I can get in to trouble healing myself but I'm wonderful at Healing others. So to avoid the former, I try to stay on the move if getting focused while dropping spot heals to keep the battle going till the diversion and energy drain wars start to take their toll.

Quote:

Is it that imperative to have the extra health that your forgoing a superior rune, or were you just making the build as accessible as possible?

Yea, you pretty much want the health because of the massive DoTs you'll be facing. Also because I generally dont like putting Superiors on monks, but of course he has Super Vigor.

Quote:

I do like the idea behind the build though, if you slow down their offense, then you really shouldn't have to heal as much and at the same time your giving yourself plenty of energy to work with. The biggest problem that I could see it having has to be the survivability of it.

Yea thats the gist. The biggest problems: Choking Gas Rangers, and Hammer Warriors that sprint while having hex removal. choking gas rangers because they will shred any caster apart for long enough to make a dent, and Hammer Warriors because if they can remove diversion, and afford to lose even 1 knockdown skill as long as they get off one or two it's still a problem. Water Eles would be an issue, but Hex Breaker takes off the snare hex, and lets you get hit by the damage instead.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 20, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

A most impressive build.

Almost an indirect protection monk. By Diversion and Hex Breaker and Energy Drain {E}, you're hereby nullifying enemy's ability to hurt you & allies. Thus making healing easier. Well done.

I would go at end game: 10+2 healing, 9+1 Divine Favor, 10 Inspiration, 7 Domination.

I'd chuck Channeling for Energy Tap. Just my $0.02.

Rest seems quite effective.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 20, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I'm guessing that as soon as your energy dips 20 below it's highest value you're hitting Energy Drain every 20 seconds?

A lot of high energy spells, but I can agree with most of them. Normally Healing Seed would always find it's way onto my bar when I have other monks because it's just so good, but when you're trying to keep up Hex Breaker and Diversion consistently, that 15 energy has got to HURT pretty damn bad.

But good idea. I've always liked Mo/Me over Mo/N because Energy Drain was just as effective but offensive as well, and you're taking it several steps further. I might try this out.

EDIT: And Energy Tap is a spell begging to be interrupted, and in those 3 seconds someone can lose a lot of health.

Jul 20, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigris Of Gaul

I'm guessing that as soon as your energy dips 20 below it's highest value you're hitting Energy Drain every 20 seconds?

Depends if I'm in a state of needing Energy badly, or want to drain asap. most of the time I can keep my energy easily around ~10, and Energy drain at "max effectiveness" in other words getting alot of Energy and refilling my pool instead of ED at like 40 energy and losing effectiveness.

Quote:

A lot of high energy spells, but I can agree with most of them. Normally Healing Seed would always find it's way onto my bar when I have other monks because it's just so good, but when you're trying to keep up Hex Breaker and Diversion consistently, that 15 energy has got to HURT pretty damn bad.

Yup. But thats where Energy Drain comes in vs Mesmers and Necros. They can only throw so many hexes at you before giving up, and Hex Breaker is technically free the first time since you'll regen that energy before the first encounter. If too much Energy Denial comes in the picture, or you hit a diversion spammer yourself things get very very ugly. in the end, you've got to know when to pick your battles with the savage energy disrupting Rangers, or the odd Mesmer that doesnt care about self survival in the Arena but more about Monk Energy denial fetishes.

Quote:

But good idea. I've always liked Mo/Me over Mo/N because Energy Drain was just as effective but offensive as well, and you're taking it several steps further. I might try this out.

I may, not sure though. At the moment I dont know what skill screams as a must have, but I'm sure something will come up. Mo/me and mo/n are very different Arena beasts though, as the former is going to have trouble if caught by massive energy denial, where as the latter is going to be able to take a couple of waves if it's from a Ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I'd chuck Channeling for Energy Tap. Just my $0.02.

Ensign and Zrave would love you. I really hate Energy Tap because of the casting time, but those two have been telling me for a whle that the skill is better than I give it credit for.

theclam · Jul 20, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

The thing about Energy Tap is that Monks rarely can afford to spend 3 seconds casting something, especially since it doesn't do any healing or damage mitigation.

Zeru · Jul 21, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Heh 9 rax rush. Is that the char name or the build theme? If it's the theme proxy rax would make more sense

Anyway like you said channeling probably isn't going to be that good. Mend ail would be decent, as that will probably be needed as well. Going along with the multitasking concept you could throw in power drain to keep up the healing/diversion spam longer. Even though power drain requires some effort to get off it's a lot better than energy tap; the 3 sec cast is a huge gamble and the rewards are little.

Jul 21, 2005, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Heh, Proxy Rax would be good too. I picked Nine Rax because originally I used to run around with Four Pool Rush, so I owed one to Terrans. Next time might be an off shoot of Proxy Gates, Carrier Rush, DT rush or something that sounds "cool".

Reason I never put Mend Ailment in is because most people dont even let you know if their suffering from an important condition, and because Poison Arrow spam just rips Mend Condition and Ailment apart. I originally had Power Drain in at one point too, may try to play with it again someday.

ICURADik · Jul 21, 2005, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

OMG Blackace is posting a build!

Yea for once. This is an Arena I was using to great success, while testing some stuff out. It's an offensive monk and requires some pretty good control of movement to be able to drop spot heals. I deleted it but I'll try to post the exact attributes anyway. It's far from top notch, but it'll beat out alot of players if you keep being persistent with Diversion spam, and it'll get you used to multitasking a bit. Learn the goodness of Diversion spam, and learn the goodness of Energy Draining Rangers as they are the most problematic of clases you'll usually face.

Nine Rax Rush[iQ]

Divine Favor 8-7+1 Minor
Healing Prayers 14-12+1 Hat+1 Minor
Domination 4
Inspiration 10

This will give you a basic focus setup. If you want ot be a little more powerful on enchantments do this:

Divine Favor 10
Healing Prayer 14
Domaintion 3
Inspiration 9

You'll lose 1 point off of Energy Drain and some seconds off of Diversion and Hex Breaker but that doesn't matter. You'll gain access to a staff, and most importantly the +20% Enchantment Wrapping and an Insightful or Defensive Staff Head. Energy isn't much of a problem at all with Channeling and Energy Drain. You're not worried about stopping conditions or hexes, you're plan is to wear down the opposition through diversion spam, energy drain and your spike healing solutions. This build is slightly different in Team Arena when playing with a Boon Healer, as you can drop Healing Prayers a bit and even pop Prot Spirit in there somewhere.

Orison of Healing
Heal Other
Healing Breeze
Healing Seed
Diversion
Energy Drain
Hex Breaker
Channeling

Heal Other and Healing Seed? I really wouldn't spend two skill slots devoted to healing only teamates. If they are stupid enough to attack someone besides you then you will most likely beat them anyway.

Healing Breeze at level 14 with a 20% enchant mod heals for DF bonus+216 damage over 12 seconds. This has probably been debated many times, but IMO it isn't incredibly strong. It is fairly efficient in more drawn out battles, and is also nice because it can be used on yourself, but it lacks the real Healing per second, that will be needed when 2-3 chars will attack you right away in Arena. It's funny after actually looking up the stats on level 14 Healing Breeze it looks more alright that I previously thought(160 healing over 10 seconds).

ICURADik · Jul 21, 2005, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Heh, Proxy Rax would be good too. I picked Nine Rax because originally I used to run around with Four Pool Rush, so I owed one to Terrans. Next time might be an off shoot of Proxy Gates, Carrier Rush, DT rush or something that sounds "cool".

Reason I never put Mend Ailment in is because most people dont even let you know if their suffering from an important condition, and because Poison Arrow spam just rips Mend Condition and Ailment apart. I originally had Power Drain in at one point too, may try to play with it again someday.

If your prot spec, Mend Ailment with Divine Boon can be your main source of healing.

Jul 21, 2005, 06:00 AM // 06:00

[QUOTE=ICURADik]Heal Other and Healing Seed? I really wouldn't spend two skill slots devoted to healing only teamates. If they are stupid enough to attack someone besides you then you will most likely beat them anyway.[/qoute]

Well If I'm trying to win as much as possible in Arena I have no choice but to heal my teammates-no matter how bad they may be. It's pretty much my best bet, especially when you get the smart teams that will split up fire just enough to break two people. Healing Seed is great because it negates so much damage, and I can just stand next to whoever and get the healing anyway.

Heal Other because it's a fast spike heal that will ruin alot of people's day:especially Warriors that dont know how to Adrenaline spike.

Quote:

Healing Breeze at level 14 with a 20% enchant mod heals for DF bonus+216 damage over 12 seconds. This has probably been debated many times, but IMO it isn't incredibly strong. It is fairly efficient in more drawn out battles, and is also nice because it can be used on yourself, but it lacks the real Healing per second, that will be needed when 2-3 chars will attack you right away in Arena. It's funny after actually looking up the stats on level 14 Healing Breeze it looks more alright that I previously thought(160 healing over 10 seconds).

Well, for now just ignore the raw healing power and the fire and forget nature. I have to use it because of the massive DoT orgy going on with almost everyone throwing around Dots. And a semi-spammable +9 pip HoT will negate alot of work.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 21, 2005, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Well, Power Drain did escape my train of thought vs. Energy Tap.

3s. is a lot but it's another offensive skill to use to make their monk or ele lose energy to feed your goal. Since you're under heavy fire, Power Drain is sooo fast that it'd be perfect for your needs.

Both have a catch though.

Energy Tap = 3s. of waiting
Power Drain = enemy has to use a spell of some sort with a predictable cast time.

If I were to make a choice, I'd probably stick to Energy Tap. That 3s. is essential if you look at it because if it stole energy with the cast time of Power Drain... ooh, broken fun...

That and I'd rather do it when I need to do it instead of having the enemy accidentally choose for me.

ICURADik · Jul 21, 2005, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Heal Other because it's a fast spike heal that will ruin alot of people's day:especially Warriors that dont know how to Adrenaline spike.

Once again, your counting on the other team sucking? I usually run boon so I'm not aware of the energy a normal monk has to play with, but 10 still seems like far too much compared to the basic orison or word of healing. Heal Area seems far more useful in arenas as long as your team understands not to target warriors first.

Jul 21, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Well not only counting on the other team sucking, but lets say it is vs a team that can stack damage: How many other spike heals could I possibly afford to put in?

I cant run boon because this is a Mo/Mes with Energy Drain. Energy Drain is awesome, but if I'm losing extra energy per cast with a minimal Channeling gain that means I'd have to ED a fat energy target. With only 4 other players, ad the Arena being filled with Warriors doing a Boon Healer that relies on another player's energy pool is dangerous.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 23, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

I may, not sure though. At the moment I dont know what skill screams as a must have, but I'm sure something will come up. Mo/me and mo/n are very different Arena beasts though, as the former is going to have trouble if caught by massive energy denial, where as the latter is going to be able to take a couple of waves if it's from a Ranger.

Curious to what you mean by this. How do you figure that the Mo/Me will have a harder time than the Mo/N? Energy Drain revives and takes away from the target, and other than Offering, I can't really think of any energy management a Mo/N can use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Ensign and Zrave would love you. I really hate Energy Tap because of the casting time, but those two have been telling me for a whle that the skill is better than I give it credit for.

Also curious to see how they cope with that 3 second cast time. I think it's pretty manageable on a Fast Casting mesmer, but on a healing monk, three seconds is pretty brutal. Energy Drain is 1 second cast to gain 10 energy (at 8 Inspiration), and Energy Tap is 6 energy for a 3 second cast... I don't know. I don't see it. At least when Signet of Devotion or Healing Seed goes off, you can appreciate the effects.

And this is a question for anyone in a general, but what are effective non-elite skills for energy management as a monk? There are some direct effect monk elites I'm aching to use, but I'm worried about energy...

Jul 23, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigris Of Gaul

Curious to what you mean by this. How do you figure that the Mo/Me will have a harder time than the Mo/N? Energy Drain revives and takes away from the target, and other than Offering, I can't really think of any energy management a Mo/N can use.

I meant that if it comes down to relying on ED vs OoB in a crunch, OoB is always going to give you energy even if you're getting denied. ED depends on the target you're draining, and if you pick a bad target you lose out.

Quote:

Also curious to see how they cope with that 3 second cast time. I think it's pretty manageable on a Fast Casting mesmer, but on a healing monk, three seconds is pretty brutal. Energy Drain is 1 second cast to gain 10 energy (at 8 Inspiration), and Energy Tap is 6 energy for a 3 second cast... I don't know. I don't see it. At least when Signet of Devotion or Healing Seed goes off, you can appreciate the effects.

I'm pretty sure they must be talking about FC mesmers. Also I should have added they were saying this when I was talking about Arcane Echo+Energy Drain for energy destruction, when they said I might as well Drain+Tap if I really wanted energy.

Quote:

And this is a question for anyone in a general, but what are effective non-elite skills for energy management as a monk? There are some direct effect monk elites I'm aching to use, but I'm worried about energy...

Blessed sig is the only one I think is worth it for PvP.

Red Locust · Jul 23, 2005, 06:11 AM // 06:11

I dunno, that build is too light on the self-healing to work in arena. I've ran something similar (only with inspired hex instead of hex breaker, and healing touch instead of healing seed). Oftentimes when I encounter knockdown wars or good mesmers, the healing just isn't enough.

From experience, an orison or two is enough to discourage attackers from attacking allies and to entice them into attacking you. Then, it's all about keeping yourself alive for longer than the enemy monk keeps himself alive, and that's when I start missing my prot spells.