Curse

jesh · Aug 26, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

With the new skill changes, what are your opinions on this?

1. Offering of Blood
2. Energy Drain
3. Mantra of Recall
4. Peace and Harmony

These are for secondary skills on a monk, of course. Which do you think is best at this point in the game?

Oh, here's another question. Is healing seed even worth carrying anymore?? All this is for PvE, btw.

Howling Wind · Aug 26, 2005, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Offering of Blood didn't go through any changes...nor did Peace and harmoney but both are good energy management skills, Offering of Blood being the more powerful in terms of energy gathering.

I also agree that healing seed is kind of nerfed badly now...before even at 15 energy it was still good atleast it was better than it is now. They reduced energy to 10 but time to 10s which in the long run makes you use up more energy. Before for 15 energy you could run for like 21s at 16 healing.

smurfhunter · Aug 26, 2005, 11:07 PM // 23:07

offering and PaH are excellant energy management skills, im leaning a bit towards offering just as a stand alone skill, although having PaH gives you more freedom on your secondary.

energy drain is nice, but its effect isnt as good or instant as offering. however many monks are mo/me so it comes in nicely as a secondary choice to offering.

mantra of recall i hear isnt good at all, but im a bit foggy on it.

from what i know, anything that works really well in pvp will work excellantly in pve, at least as far as defense goes. it may be slower because you tend to focus in on one target however. luckily i doubt that matters for a monk so i *think* i can safely say its the same.

jesh · Aug 26, 2005, 11:21 PM // 23:21

For general reference:

Mantra of Recall {Elite} - Enchantment Spell
For 20 seconds, you gain no benefit from Mantra of Recall. You gain 3-28 Energy when Mantra of Recall ends. 10e / 1s / 20s

Energy Drain {Elite} - Spell
Steal 8-18 Energy from target foe. 5e / 1s / 20s

Offering of Blood {Elite} - Spell
Sacrifice 10% of maximum health. You gain 8-18 energy. 5e / 1/4s / 15s

Peace and Harmony {Elite} - Enchantment Spell
For 30-78 seconds, target ally gains +1 Energy regeneration. Peace and Harmony ends if that ally attacks or casts a spell that does not target an ally. 5e / 1s / 45s

It's weird, I heard a lot before about how much P&H sucked, and now I have two votes in favor of it? Hm.

Comparing 1/4s to 1s, I don't see how it matters how "instant" it is, because there's still aftercast. I don't mind changing my secondary, so anything is fine.

aB- · Aug 26, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Assuming the max figure you provided:

Mantra of Recall nets you 18 mana roughly every 20 seconds, which is 0.9 mana a second.

Energy Drain nets you 13 mana a second every 20 seconds, which is 0.65 mana second, plus you need an enemy nearby.

Offering of Blood nets you 13 mana second every 15 seconds, which is 0.866 mana second, plus it also takes 10% of your max health.

Peace and Harmony nets you 0.33 a second, but is related to divine favor, an attribute that you should already have heaviliy invested in as a monk.

So basically, using anything other than Peace and Harmony is reducing your healing potential because you really don't NEED anything other than healing and divine favor as a healing monk. You will probably get a slightly less effect from the other energy management skills, but in terms of pure energy gain per time, I would go with Mantra of Recall because it looks best on paper. In-game use I can't comment on, as I don't have a mesmer.

zehly · Aug 27, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

IMHO:

Offering > Energy Drain > Recall > Peace and Harmony.

But, that is personal preference..

jesh · Aug 27, 2005, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Ab, I found this at the bottom of the update thing on guildwars.com:

Note: All skill ranges are for Attribute Level 0 through 15. For example, "Fertile Season: reduced duration to 15..45 seconds" would indicate that with 0 Attribute points, the duration would be 15 seconds, and with 15 Attribute points, the duration would be 45 seconds.

So... Maybe Recall is a little less effective, since that's with 15 inspiration? I don't know how the others would compare with that many points in their related attributes.

Bast · Aug 27, 2005, 04:58 AM // 04:58

No.

Energy Drain is the best by far because you can also stick it to the other team. Sometimes you don't get full energy out of it. But if you're really hard up for energy, hit Elmo smiters, pets, or spirits with it. Otherwise, pick a Monk or Mesmer. It's a little more difficult to use than any of the others since you have to cycle targets until you find one worth hitting with it.

Offering of Blood is more expensive than Energy Drain because you have to heal yourself back the sacrifice and so is 5 energy less efficient than Drain (assuming Drain steals as much as it can), but you always get the full energy out of it.

Peace and Harmony is decidedly lackluster. 1/3 energy/sec (one pip) isn't that helpful, at least compared to other options. It takes 15 seconds of it just to pay for itself (ignoring your standard 4 pips because you would have had those anyway).

I haven't used Mantra of Recall so I will withhold judgement, but it seems inferior to Energy Drain.

jesh · Aug 27, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Notice I wrote PvE, not PvP. I'm finding Energy Drain is somewhat.. bleh. I always have to have an enemy nearby if I want me energy back. I was thinking of switching over to Offering for this reason. Recall isn't that bad, all the better if it gets stripped. I get my energy right then. P&H is kinda nice because it's a "set and forget" type thing, just have to bury it with other cover enchants.

Bast · Aug 27, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

There's PVE in this game? Wtf?

octaviancmb · Aug 27, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Peace and Harmony is the way to go here, mainly because I've never seen a Monk build in PvE with maxed out Inspiriation -- or at least a very high level -- which is what the two Mesmer Elites are going to require of you to really benefit from them. And...of course if you're a M/N, then Offering is likely the best of the bunch since you're a monk and can negate the sacrifice almost instantly.

My own experiences with Peace and Harmony in PvE have been nothing but positive. You have the option of using P&H on someone else, which really isn't available with any of your other choices. The thing lasts just about forever (with +20% enchantments, you can *almost* keep it up on two characters). It also works well with Succur. P&H yourself, Succur your Elementalist (as long as the Ele isn't carrying Flare or something spamlike). You'll be at 4 pips, the Ele will be at 5. Works like a charm.

If you do max out Inspiriation, I'd go with Mantra of Recall. It's a fantastic skill for a secondary Mesmer (lackluster for a primary, but you're a Monk anyway) in PvE. In PvP Energy Drain is *always* going to be a better choice between the two.

So that your Inspiration points don't go to waste, you might also consider the following non-elite skills:

Channeling: It's not as useful in the rare "good PUG," for for a bad PUG that lets you get swarmed, this can be a lifesaver.

Inspired Hex: Especially useful in the FoW to get rid of Spiteful from the idiot Warrior who's killing your entire group by continuing to attack under it. Also nets you energy. Also lets you put Spiteful on an enemy so that enemy can kill his entire group by continuing to attack under it...

Mantra of Concentration {so so} or Mantra of Resolve {much better}: Useful on UW quest groups when fighting the hordes of Mesmer spirits.

Mantra of [insert regional element here]: The elemental mantras are very handy in PvE since you can generally know ahead of time what the most common element in an area will be. Less damage to you + energy. Note that if your ranger is carrying Winter and Greater Conflag, you'll gain energy from every hit against you with Mantra of Frost.

Spirit of Failure: All-around great spell. Lasts forever (30 seconds). Things won't be hitting as often (less healing for you), and when they don't, you get energy! Woot!

Good luck with your build,
cmb

jesh · Aug 27, 2005, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Thanks a lot for the reply. ^^
I'm just trying out everything at this point. I'm bored enough with the game that it gives me something to do. I can't wait for the expansion to come out. x_x

UltimaXtreme · Aug 31, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

offering = best in pve
edrain = best in pvp

Neo-LD · Aug 31, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

EDrain is best in 8v8 for sure, but in arenas Id never want it unless my team was dual monk. The chance/likelyhood of draining an already dry enemy is far greater with only 4 targets. Also, there is no ghostly hero and usually no spirits, so draining those as safety isnt an option. Also, energy drain monks do not fit well at all in arenas with other teammates running energy denial. Of course in tombs its entirely different since having so many targets to drain makes edrain monks very effective. But for me, in arena, edrain carries too much risk, and does not provide enough benifit compared to offering.

Then theres the issue of having to search around for a target that you think may have energy, which there often isnt time for in arena when you are the only monk, but there is plenty of time for if you have other monks to back you up (tombs, dual monk arena)

So for GvG or tombs, or dual monk arena

E Drain > Offering > PxH > Mantra

and for solo monk arena

Offering > E Drain > PxH > Mantra

for some of you that one situation may not matter very much, but I frequently end up being the solo monk for my guild's arena teams so I felt obligated to point this out.

Zeru · Sep 01, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

P&H is absolute crap unless you can rely the enemy team to have very enchant strips and you have 16 DF letting you keep it on 2.5 people constantly. If you are using it just on yourself its incredibly stupid.

Sinterklaas · Sep 01, 2005, 06:12 AM // 06:12

nope imo p&h is pretty neat for a protmonk...since there aren't really good protelites...and going for energydrain...well i just don't want to get in touch with the enemy groupe...1 pip of energy regen can mean the world...and btw...anyone monk who doesn't use P&h on another monk/himself is incredibly stupid..cause it get's canceled as soon as you attack

Keure · Sep 01, 2005, 12:07 PM // 12:07

..."neat" doesn't mean effective.

Math:

P&H (at Divine Favor 16): 1 extra pip (1/3 energy/second); costs 5 energy/1.5 mins (approx).
Over 1 minute: 1/3 * 60 - 5 * 2/3 = 17.66 energy regained

Energy Drain (at Insp 10): 16 energy gained every 20 sec, costs 5 energy/20 sec.
Over 1 minute: 16*3 - 15 = 33 energy regained

P&H works to its full potential only if the enemy doesn't strip the enchants off your monks (how likely is that?

). Energy Drain also has a nice side effect of denying your local elementalist his energy.