Curse

NightOwl · Aug 29, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

When I'm being attacked by warriors I like to fire off a Healing Breeze, then run (prior to a full chain being laid on me). I find that the continuous increase of HP helps deal with the damage that's coming in, and a couple quick heals when I can in the midst of it will see me through.

With people saying that healing breeze is a poor choice, how do you manage?

Anyhow, I've been trying a few new things, and I enjoy Energy Drain as my elite. I miss having an elite heal, but I feel more able to contribute to my group with it. My current set up that I'm toying around with is as follows:

Mo/Me

4 Inspiriation
14 Healing
8 Protection, I forget which
11 Divine

Healing Breeze (I still love 9 pip regen, what can I say)
Orison of Healing
Reversal of Fortune
Touch of Healing
Mend Ailment
Remove Hex (this casting time still sucks, however)
Divine Boon
Energy Drain (elite) (drains 11 energy)

Other than the joy I get from using Energy Drain on opposing monks (I like it on the first warrior charging in, as well, early in the fight. I know they aren't an optimal target, but I don't need the energy then and it should shut down a few things to slow the early adren production and throw off the initial damage spike of a team slightly), I don't feel that this heals nearly as well as my prior build.

Even draining every 20 seconds, if I'm continously running Boon I just can't get enough energy. I think it is a solid 2nd monk build, some rather impressive heals can be pumped out...I guess something like spike-healing, but as a lone monk in a group it seems to be insufficient to keep maintained heals throughout the battle. I have tried only using Boon in a pinch, but I'm still hurting for energy.

The help that you all have been providing has been great, I truly appreciate it.

Edit:

After a bit more playtime, I think I've narrowed it down to something I'm satisified with.

Healing Breeze
Orison of Healing
Word of Healing
Touch of Healing
Healing Seed
Vigorous Spirit
Mend Ailment
Remove Hex

14 healing prayers
13 divine favor
4 protection

Quick, responsive, cheap, and handles most situations fairly well. I don't expect to be able to deal with spikes as well as a protection monk, but I can manage through most via Word and Orison alternated, with a Breeze thrown in (or Seed as well if I get a feeling it's coming, with a little luck). Due to having 6 spells at 5 energy, and only 2 at 10, energy management is more of a situation of being careful, and swapping to my alternate weapon set in a pinch. Seems to be good for the moment, at least until I unlock something that really rocks my world.

Tombs on the other hand...that's for another day.

Thanks again for the input you all provided, it gave me considerable food for thought and understanding of the class (even though my changes weren't that major).

Mustache Mayhem · Aug 29, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

yeah np- thing I noticed is if you play the arenas you don't really need the energy.. the thing with boon cost is you can recharge 5 energy pretty fast as monk with only one enchant and you don't need 7 to actually cast

Neo-LD · Aug 29, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

Note that Offering of Blood may be a better choice for the 4v4 arenas, as these provide fewer targets [and thus less energy] for you to steal with Energy Drain.

I agree. My number one issue with energy drain is the chance that you will drain someone with low energy. Whoops, you needed some extra energy to continue healing? Sorry, no dice. Offering cant fail like that. The only way to make sure it gives you 100% of its advertised energy is to drain the ghostly hero or a spirit. But then it isnt doing 1/2 its job, denying an enemy of energy. In long games, where eles become exhausted, and rangers, warrior, and necromancers, and monks are all running on fumes, (>5 energy, spending it as fast as it comes in) it is hard to find any target at all to drain, and you cant sit there looking around for one all day. Mesmers are your best bet, but heck if its a mesmer who says that your energy drain will even complete at all? In HoH, where there are more targets and energy draining is so prevelent, Id say gogo energy drain all the way. But in arenas offering is just totally superior.

Zhou Feng · Aug 30, 2005, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem

I've done some healing monk in the arenas.. this what finally ended up with after a few thousand faction.. works well for keeping yourself alive and still being an effective healer

14 healing (sup rune + hat)
4 smite
9 protection prayers
13 divine favor

Skills:

Divine Boon
Purge Conditions
Vig Spirit
Healing Breeze
Word of Healing
Reversal of Fortune
Res Signet
Rebirth

think the key is everything is low cost.. reversal is great at keeping yourself alive- better than orison

Not really.

I can use this build

Orison of Healing
Signet of Devotion
Word of Healing
Balthazar's Spirit
Balthazar's Aura
Essence Bond
Blessed Signet
Mantra of Inscriptions/Channeling whichever fits the bill...

Energy management is of utmost importance. With Essence Bond and Balthazar's Spirit you can fuel this energy. If you like getting into the fray (I don't recommend it but sometimes its neccesary) Channeling is an excellent choice while you cast low cost spells like Orison of Healing and Word of Healing. Mantra of Inscriptions is there to make your Signet of Devotion and Blessed Signet charge faster (trust me just a bit faster makes the diffrence when you use Blessed Signet to fuel energy from your enchantments) Signet of Devotion isn't the all out healing answer because it takes 5 SEC to recharge BUT due to being a signet its much harder to counter. Its also good because it doesnt use energy saving your energy for much important spell casts. Balthazar's Aura is the kind of spell that you cast VERY strategically over an ally whose wading deep in enemy line or in case you become (as it is so often) a target to damage your enemies (sometimes your foe will run to avoid the Aura, other times the person has enough staying power)

Care for more healing? Drop the Aura and add in Healing Seed instead. Your build will look like

Orison of Healing
Signet of Devotion
Word of Healing
Healing Seed
Balthazar's Spirit
Essence Bond
Blessed Signet
Mantra of Inscriptions/Channeling whichever fits the bill...

The Healing Seed we all know how nice it is. With this build you can cast it as soon as it becomes available.

You shoudl usually use hotkeys and go something like 7,1 7,2 7,3... this makes you spam Blessed Signet so as soon as its available it is casted if it isnt you will still cast your heal.

THIS IS NOT a primary HEALER ONLY build.

Nash · Aug 30, 2005, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

4 Inspiriation
14 Healing
8 Protection, I forget which
11 Divine

Your Inspiration is too low. 8+ keke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

Remove Hex (this casting time still sucks, however)

Which is why you use Inspired Hex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

Other than the joy I get from using Energy Drain on opposing monks

No, you use it on damage dealers/Mesmers, which means they do less damage/shutdown, which helps you in your job of keeping the team alive. Get on an Elementalist or Mesmer and drain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

Even draining every 20 seconds, if I'm continously running Boon I just can't get enough energy.

I think you may be overhealing. Let people drop a bit more before you heal, so you don't waste the boon heal. This should keep your energy higher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

Healing Breeze
Orison of Healing
Word of Healing
Touch of Healing
Healing Seed
Vigorous Spirit
Mend Ailment
Remove Hex

Word is trash, Vigorous is trash. Remove Hex is still trash.

Jasso · Aug 30, 2005, 12:54 PM // 12:54

In 4v4 arena i have used this kind of build..

Mo/?

Healing 15 (12+3)
Prot 9 (8+1)
DF 11 (10+1)

Orison
WoH
Healing Touch
Breeze
Mend Ailment
Prot Spirit
Balthas Spirit
Res Sig

At start cast Balthas Spirit on yourself. If enemies come for you, BS gives you 1 energy every time you take dmg (very nice). If not, take it off. Keep prot spirit on always and use breeze and touch to keep yourself alive. Orison and woh for teammates. At least this build suits for me

Hippie Crack · Aug 30, 2005, 01:32 PM // 13:32

I dont know if anyone else has pointed this out but that 20% enchant grip isn't doing you anything. It doesn't work the way you think it is. The 20% enchant grip makes enchants that are cast on YOU last 20% longer. Enchants you cast on other people dont get the 20% boast. It doesn't make seed last 12 seconds or breeze last 12 seconds unless you cast it on YOURSELF. You cant cast seed on your self either.

Word of Healing is the worst elite to take untill they fix it. The bonus isn't calculated in untill after the initial heal+DF. So unless the person is down to around 50HP you never see the bonus. Trying to time that kind of heal is risky business. Balth spirit is a waste. Your better off with channeling so the people dont need to be attacking you only around you. If they're attacking you you'll get the channeling bonus anyway since they're obviously in channeling range.

I dont play arena's but here's what i use in tombs:
Orison
Dwayna's Kiss
Heal Other
Energy drain
Heal area(excelent self heal and great on altar maps)
Healing seed
Channeling(arcane echo if i'm running in an energy denial team to echo energy drain or seed for altar maps)
Res Sig

Energy drain would prolly be the way to go in arena's too since the other team will only have 1 monk. Keep him drained. Drain>Tap. Tap takes 2 more seconds to cast and steals 4 less energy. 3 second cast is far too long on a heal monk. Might even bring arcane echo too. You would echo drain right from the start on their monk and his entire energy pool will be gone.

Yamat · Aug 30, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

The number of people that posted a build without condition or hex removal is sad... guys, go away and read up. You will be shut down dead by a mesmer, and warriors/rangers/necros will destroy the rest of your team. And not a single person took Aegis, possibly one of the best spells in the Monk arsenal... if they aint taking damage, you dont have to heal them.

Offering of Blood in PvP is like putting a big sign on your head saying "Kill me first, here, I helped you a bit". You're the monk... YOU'RE THE TARGET! Take Energy Drain and Inspired Hex. The comments about finding a target for Energy Drain are valid, but in 4v4 everyone is usually pretty close, so Tab/finding the right target is not that hard. A good Monk has awareness of where everyone is... don't just stare at the red bars!

Reversal of Fortune over Orison, any day.
Mend Ailment, great spell.

Try and work a res signet into your build... most players are ok with Monks not taking a res, but if you can work it in, it makes for a stronger, more resilient group.

Protective Spirit to keep the focused target alive (often yourself!).

Brute healing gets the job done, but if you're smart about it you'll find that you are using Energy Drain as a weapon, not because you need the energy...

Nash · Aug 30, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Well, the guy asked for a heal monk. Hybrids for arena, but in 8v8 I'd rather have 2 healers and a full Prot.

Nothing wrong with Offering of Blood in PvP, even though Energy Drain is nicer. Taking 51 or so damage doesn't really matter in the long run, when a focused character takes thousands of damage anyway. And you don't have to use it under fire.

I don't believe in Res Signet on Monks, not even for arena.

Slade xTekno · Aug 30, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

I have had an unnatural rate of success with a slightly tweaked Fi Boon Healer. I simply rearranged the skills and replaced Dwayna's Kiss w/ Remove Hex.

The trick to playinig a Boon healer is remembering how much your spells heal. With a Stat spread of DF 12 + 1 + 1, HP 10 + 1, and BM 8, here's how I judge it. [no, it is not exact]
Spell = Heals
Orison of Healing = 1/4
Healing Touch [normally personal] = 1/3
Heal Other = 1/3
Infuse Health [your trump card] = 4/5
Divine Boon = 1/6. Remember, if you really need it, you can spam Boon to heal yourself.

Kampfkeks · Aug 30, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

This is basically what i'm running in tombs:

Monk/Mesmer

Inspiration: 9
Healing: 16
Protection: around 5 or 6, dunno
Div Favor: 10

I'm not sure about the exact attributes, but is something around that...

Orison of Healing / Dwaynas Kiss
Healing Touch
Heal Other
Mend Ailment
Protective Spirit

Energy Drain
Hexbreaker
Inspired Hex

Basically even though the protection attribute is quite low it can be used to keep up prot spirit and spam mend ailment (great skill...). Use Energy Drain and Inspired Hex for your energy management purposes. Keep Hexbreaker up all the time... seriously. The second it is down is the second you'll be flooded with hexes. If done right you can at least catch two hexes thrown at you and remove a third with inspired. Never use healing touch on an ally unless he is very near. Running around and chasing your teammate is asking to lose.
Dwaynas Kiss really is the skill to use as a healer in tombs and Arena. You WILL meet heavy hexes and you WILL meet heavy enchantments. Dwaynas Kiss just transforms into a powerful low energy spam heal. Heal other is there for that emergency healing. It shouldn't be used often, just to maybe outheal spikedamage. Speaking about spikedamage. As soon as a healthbar decides to jump around get your prot spirit ab.
The other team doesn't know you've not got too many points in protection and will either switch targets or keep on hammering on your one target (in which case you can just recast prot spirit in time to keep it up 24/7).

As Smiting has gone moo at the moment, one might consider bringing healing seed instead of Heal Other and just laugh those smiters to death. But that would spread your healing power REAL thin so you might as well exchange it with mend ailmend. Your team won't be so happy about that decision though (As we all know, Throw Dirst is cast real fast and real dirty and blinding a LOT)

This build isn't perfect but i've used it for quite some time and am quite satisfied with it.

Zhou Feng · Aug 31, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

The number of people that posted a build without condition or hex removal is sad... guys, go away and read up. You will be shut down dead by a mesmer, and warriors/rangers/necros will destroy the rest of your team. And not a single person took Aegis, possibly one of the best spells in the Monk arsenal... if they aint taking damage, you dont have to heal them.

Offering of Blood in PvP is like putting a big sign on your head saying "Kill me first, here, I helped you a bit". You're the monk... YOU'RE THE TARGET! Take Energy Drain and Inspired Hex. The comments about finding a target for Energy Drain are valid, but in 4v4 everyone is usually pretty close, so Tab/finding the right target is not that hard. A good Monk has awareness of where everyone is... don't just stare at the red bars!

Reversal of Fortune over Orison, any day.
Mend Ailment, great spell.

Try and work a res signet into your build... most players are ok with Monks not taking a res, but if you can work it in, it makes for a stronger, more resilient group.

Protective Spirit to keep the focused target alive (often yourself!).

Brute healing gets the job done, but if you're smart about it you'll find that you are using Energy Drain as a weapon, not because you need the energy...

You are looking from it from a Healer/Prot point of view (I assume you use Prot considering that you mention Aegis, Reversal of Fortune, Mend Ailment, Protective Spirit all in the Prot spec attribute) I commend indeed that Prot is a powerful attribute tree because as you stated if they are not taking damage the less you heal. But for people like me who want a bit of indirect offense that is why I rely on cheap heals, balthie's spirit, essence bond and blessed signet to fuel my energy to continue spamming cheap heals. I had taken Word of Healing as an elite because it is simply cost effective but energy drain fits the bill too as an elite. As for hex and condition removal that is the domain of healer/prot monks not healer/smiter monks

although I can set up some hex removal in my build and mend ailment is extremely cheap and cost effective even with 0 prot points. Ill still stick to Orison and Signet of Devotion because Im not a prot monk. I could considerably also take energy drain along with essence bond and balthie's spirit because it will fuel my energy even faster.

Orison of Healing
Signet of Devotion
Healing Seed
Balthazar's Aura
Essence Bond/Balthazar's Spirit
Blessed Signet
Energy Drain
Inspired Hex (Yes I also love this skill)

What I like about being healer/smiter is the fact I can heal and still help my allies take the enemy down with Aura, which of course I don't cast until I see a good open opportunity. I could also drop Aura and go for

Orison of Healing
Signet of Devotion
Healing Seed
Life Bond
Balthazar's Spirit
Essence Bond
Blessed Signet
Energy Drain

And fuel a lot more energy to cast my OH and HS, while sticking free SoD heals. Of course I might then have to take some prot points...

NightOwl · Aug 31, 2005, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Hippie, thanks for that information...I'm surprised by the enchant grip bit, and the Word of Healing...kinda leaves me stunned. I confess that there have been times I've seen someone really come back from the brink when I used it, far more so than normal, but with the number of */mo around I figured someone else had a heal in there. What an odd way for the spell to work, and a very...imprecise spell description.

Aegis is a great spell, but I've found that I have my best successes with pure heals. Though I've not tried using that, I have tried working in protection many many times, and it just doesn't go so well for me. I love having a prot monk around, they're quite effective, but just not quite my thing.

Inspired hex sounds interesting. Am I reading correctly that it's only once per 20 seconds though? I feel as though I might need to remove hexes a bit more often than that.

Hex Breaker...someone posted that it has a base duration of 15 seconds. While it still sounds great, what's the actual duration of it now?

Argh...what skills to drop to make space...

Thanks again for the help!

Zhou Feng · Aug 31, 2005, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Actually I dusted my healer/prot build and well:

Orison of Healing + Reversal of Fortune while you have Essence Bond and Balthazar's Spirit (0 smiting) and packing Blessed Signet and Energy Drain are very spammable. This leaves two optional slots for Mend Ailment and the best Hex Removal you can get I suggest Hex Breaker because it recharges in 5 seconds. Mend Ailment is an incredible spell. Not only is it just as spammable as Orison and Reversal (If I notice to many conditions I throw Mend Ailemnt first then Reversal then if they still losing life Orison of Healing) but its ability to heal makes it nice too. With this then

Orison Of Healing (Although not as good as Reversal, so cheap and spammable its still worth while)
Reversal of Fortune (Just as good and better then any pure heal, you are negating damage AND healing)
Mend Ailment (Cheap and Spammable excellent against so many condition heavy builds out there)

Energy Fueling Skills

Balthazar's Spirit
Essence Bond
Blessed Signet

Mesmer Skills

Hex Breaker (Charge 5 pretty decent even with 0 Domination)
Energy Drain (An elite of choice 1 sec cast and steals quite a good amount of energy)

OR drop Essence Bond and go for Healing Seed. Whatever works best for you.

Reversal Of Fortune
Mend Ailment
Healing Seed
Balthazar's Spirit
Life Bond
Blessed Signet
Hex Breaker
Energy Drain

Kampfkeks · Aug 31, 2005, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

Inspired hex sounds interesting. Am I reading correctly that it's only once per 20 seconds though? I feel as though I might need to remove hexes a bit more often than that.

Basically yes. However what other options do you have? You could fire a mere Smite Hex with zero to nothing attributepoints. Sure the Hex is gone but it has a slow reload too. And Remove Hex... ugh, that one is just asking to get interrupted due to its cast time. I tried PVP a few times with it and neither can remove hex counter Lightning Surge, nor can i remove the hex i want to have removed (most of the time when remove hex is cast i've allready stacked 3-4 cover hexes on top of the one hex that is killing me (for example Backfire or Soulleech).

So you need either a quick and dirty removal or a very good protection from hexes. Inspired Hex and Hexbreaker is giving you both. Inspired Hex especially helps your energy a lot, something you can never have enough of with all those energy draining and burning stuff around the block.

Oh and please... please don't bring enchantments as your single energy source like some folks do advice. Especially in that smiting scenario we are in currently you are going to have those just stripped away with ease and are left dry on energy.

Ensign · Aug 31, 2005, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippie Crack

It doesn't work the way you think it is. The 20% enchant grip makes enchants that are cast on YOU last 20% longer. Enchants you cast on other people dont get the 20% boast.

Quoted for being complete and utter bullshit. The 20% enchanting upgrade part makes all enchantments *you cast* last 20% longer, regardless of target. It's that simple. Go test it yourself - I did.

Peace,
-CxE

Yamat · Aug 31, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

The OP stated he plays mainly in areans... an arena monk needs to be a heal/prot hybrid, cause you're only getting one.

Don't use enchants for energy management... you don't get beat on enough to warrant them, and are using the energy you're gaining to keep yourself alive (can't use Prot Spirit cause you won't get hit, so wont get energy!). A waste.

Zhou Feng · Aug 31, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

The OP stated he plays mainly in areans... an arena monk needs to be a heal/prot hybrid, cause you're only getting one.

Don't use enchants for energy management... you don't get beat on enough to warrant them, and are using the energy you're gaining to keep yourself alive (can't use Prot Spirit cause you won't get hit, so wont get energy!). A waste.

If I where to think like that I wouldn't bring hex breaker either or aegis or protective spirit since they are susceptible to shatter enchantment, they would then be a 'waste'.

I'd still take Life Bond+Balthazar's Spirit for energy management. With a Blessed Signet and Energy Drain as an elite and Hex Breaker to help me out against Hexes. The other three slots I leave as optional preferring to bring Reversal of Fortune, Signet of Devotion and Protective Spirit. I dunno the combinations are many...

I could also use your suggested build with some tweaks and find out how well it works

Reversal of Fortune
Signet of Devotion
Mend Ailment
Aegis
Protective Spirit
Hex Breaker
Energy Drain
Inspired Hex

I have no idea however how you mantain your energy with this build. Energy Drain recharges at twenty seconds. So does Inspired Hex (doesnt recharge but becomes Inspired Hex again in twenty seconds) With energy denial mesmers that drain your energy dry how are you supposed to mantain effective energy management?

Yamat · Aug 31, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhou Feng

I could also use your suggested build with some tweaks and find out how well it works

Reversal of Fortune
Signet of Devotion
Mend Ailment
Aegis
Protective Spirit
Hex Breaker
Energy Drain
Inspired Hex

I have no idea however how you mantain your energy with this build. Energy Drain recharges at twenty seconds. So does Inspired Hex (doesnt recharge but becomes Inspired Hex again in twenty seconds) With energy denial mesmers that drain your energy dry how are you supposed to mantain effective energy management?

That's not quite the build I use, but to be honest, the number of energy denial mesmers I am seeing are very few, and if you come up against a good one, you're screwed regardless of whether you have enchants that give you energy when you get hit. Mostly I'm seeing backfire mesmers... I have no worries about those.

At 10 Inspiration, Energy Drain gives you 16 energy and Inspired Hex gives 11. That's plenty. In fact sometimes I have so much I get to use the hex that Inspired Hex captured!

Every build has a counter... with your build I'd be too concerned with enchant removal...

Zhou Feng · Sep 01, 2005, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

That's not quite the build I use, but to be honest, the number of energy denial mesmers I am seeing are very few, and if you come up against a good one, you're screwed regardless of whether you have enchants that give you energy when you get hit. Mostly I'm seeing backfire mesmers... I have no worries about those.

At 10 Inspiration, Energy Drain gives you 16 energy and Inspired Hex gives 11. That's plenty. In fact sometimes I have so much I get to use the hex that Inspired Hex captured!

Every build has a counter... with your build I'd be too concerned with enchant removal...

Yep... I know. Well There is a reason why I became fond of smiting prayers. Due to excesive PvE solo farming I had to pick up smiting and grew fond of it. It is also much more challenging coming with a working healer/smiter build (and more recently with your ideas a prot/smiter build). So meh Im fond of smiting... specifically Aura, Shield of Judgement and Spirit.

I was analyzing a few things however and taking out smiting for the moment...

Healer or Protector

11 Divine Favor +X rune of choice (12-14)
10 Healing or Protection +X rune of choice (11-13)
10 Inspiration
Use Scalp of Choice for a +1 on DF or HP/PP
Superior Vigor

Orison of Healing/Reversal of Fortune
Signet of Devotion
Healing Touch/Aegis
Healing Seed/Protective Spirit
Mend Ailment
Hex Breaker
Inspired Hex
Energy Drain

Healer/Prot hybrid

Orison of Healing
Signet of Devotion
Reversal of Fortune
Mend Ailment
Protective Spirit
Energy Drain
Hex Breaker
Inspired Hex

So tell me how they sound...

And since we are at it (borrowing from your experience

) if you where to run a healer/smiter hybrid or prot/smiter hybrid which one would you run and what build would you suggest for PvP?