Aug 09, 2005, 02:44 AM // 02:44
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#61
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Frost Gate Guardian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender Ward
I just tested this again, comparing a Horn Bow to a Flatbow. The difference in speed is the time it takes a character to "recover" after the quickshot. It's very noticeable.
When you make the normal + quickshot sequence, the character "rests" for half a second after it, before beginning the next normal attack. This "rest" period is longer when using a Horn Bow rather than a Flatbow.
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OK, we were talking about different things then. I was talking about the speed of the actual Quick Shot and you're talking about the downtime after. Then yes, there's a speed difference between bows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatics
Anyway -It's very hard to forsee what Quickening Zypher will do to your own team, let alone your opponents.
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This is why I stopped bringing QZ in random arena, you get chewed out by your teammates too often. In more organized play though, QZ can be a great help if you plan for it. Offering of Blood every 8 seconds, Energy Drain every 10 seconds, Ether Renewal every 15 seconds... these skills are greatly helped by QZ and they will lead to a large net gain in energy as compared to having no QZ. Plus you screw the opposing team over if they are not built for playing under QZ. Finally, you get a 5s recharge Distracting Shot, which I've seen only one other person mention so far-- this is a doubleplus good boon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
Kindle does not change your bow's damage type
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Yes it does. Kindle converts your bow's damage to fire, though this is not documented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender Ward
When using an Elemental weapon with a Conjure Element, the game seems to combine the conjure with the main weapon damage, displaying only one figure. Am I correct in this observation?
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No, the Conjure Damage is displayed separately.
Quote:
If you then enchanted this character with Judge's Insight, would the conversion to holy damage take place after the above "combination" or before? In other words, are Judge's Insight and Conjure Element mutually incompatible?
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Yes, they seem mutually incompatible. I just tried this with my E/Mo and Conjure + JI is identical to JI by itself (only one damage number when using Conjure + JI that has about the same range as JI by itself).
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Aug 09, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30
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#62
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Frost Gate Guardian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Wallaby
No, the Conjure Damage is displayed separately.
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Just re-tested this. You are correct. Not sure why I thought it piled the damage together. Haven't played with the Conjure build in over a month though (Conjure + RtW was my original Quickshot build), so memory was faulty.
Quote:
Yes, they seem mutually incompatible. I just tried this with my E/Mo and Conjure + JI is identical to JI by itself (only one damage number when using Conjure + JI that has about the same range as JI by itself).
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That's too bad
May have to find another use for the secondary then, with an external source of JI.
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Aug 09, 2005, 03:56 AM // 03:56
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#63
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Apr 2005
Profession: N/A
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Quote:
Where did you pull that 80 damage per second figure out of, your arse?
You've got nothing but normal bow damage + Kindle Arrows to improve your damage. I know from using this build that your max damage hovers around 50 per arrow
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Rofl, further proof you have no clue what you're talking about. 50 per arrow = 80~ per second. GREAT job with the mathemathics. Adn again, its sustainable because it can use the exact same freaking tactics you use to make your build sustainable and deal the SAME AMOUNT OF DPS, something I've repeatedly said and you've repeatedly ignored.
I'm done. I have no further inclination to argue with someone so ignorant. I'm almost at the point of believing youre just effing around and not seriously meaning what you say. But oh well, peace out.
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Aug 09, 2005, 05:00 AM // 05:00
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#64
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Frost Gate Guardian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traversc
50 per arrow = 80~ per second. GREAT job with the mathemathics.
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This statement is too incoherent for me to interpret ...
Quote:
Adn again, its sustainable because it can use the exact same freaking tactics you use to make your build sustainable and deal the SAME AMOUNT OF DPS, something I've repeatedly said and you've repeatedly ignored.
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What you have repeatedly ignored (because it's clearly inconvinient), is that once you've blown your energy, you can stil attempt to do the normal + quickshot sequence, but with arrows that are much weaker.
And ofcourse let's not forget that you're stil paying 3 energy per every quickshot, so you'll be regenerating for a while (unless you don't use QS and reduce your damage output even further).
Keep up with the insults, though. They truly help prove your point.
After you've exhausted your energy in 10-15 seconds as a Quickshot R/W, for much too long your damage output becomes crap, period.
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Aug 09, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06
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#65
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Guest
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I'd be inclined to reply to some things in this thread but I'm freaking lost with all the oddball interjections that seem to say nothing :/
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Aug 09, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31
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#66
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Frost Gate Guardian
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You know, just on the off chance that I might be missing something, I went and yet again played for 10 games in the random Arena with that R/W build:
14 Marksmanship
13 Expertise
12 Wilderness Survival
QS, Kindle Arrows, Frenzy, Lighting Reflexes (came in handy so often ...), Favourable Winds, Quickening Zephyr, etc. I lucked out with a team that could function well under QZ.
With a perfect +35% Hornbow, the damage never went beyond 55 on casters, and never above 50 on warriors.
Stil, I could easily take out a target (even a Warrior or Ranger) in about 10 seconds. And then, that was it. I had to wait and wait and wait until my energy was back to nearly full levels, so I could kill another target.
The damage I was doing under the normal + QS sequence during this recharge period was very underwhelming. I cannot justify this downtime, when I needed to do to gank the next target 5 seconds ago, not 20 seconds from now.
Some games were way too close, because Ender Ward had to wait for his energy to regen.
That's the problem with QZ based QS builds. Under QZ, for 10 seconds, you're a god. After that, your damage is subpar, at best. This is reality that won't be changed no matter how many times a certain someone screams "wrong! wrong!".
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Aug 09, 2005, 12:10 PM // 12:10
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#67
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Guild: [GSS][SoF][DIII]
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You know Ender, if you cant use conjure element and are getting JI externally, someone in this thread suggested spamming watch yourself at 0 tactics. If you have a lame duck 8th skill, why not? Mr I use 2 sup runes will need the extra defense.
Anyways if the hardcore QZ fans dont get it by now, they wont ever. You, me, we've all explained it. But I have yet to see one of the QZ guys comment on it. ll they can seem to say is "I can shoot an enemy dead in 10 seconds with my uber gatling gun skillz. " But we know. And us-non QZers are willingly passing up a little of that damage to gain some semblence of longetivity. To avoid going in circles AGAIN, there are a few facts which the QZ guys must adress before we can get anywhere further in this discussion...
1. The arrows under QZ are much weaker. It has been playtested, ~50 per shot vs ~75 per shot. Considering firing rates, this actually means they have the same dps even when the QZ guy is going full steam.... intersteing......
2. Once the QZ ranger is dry, and he WILL be dry in ~15 seconds, what then? Apparently I was mistaken and it is net 2 energy lost, not 3. But thats still bad. 15-16 shots takes about 8 seconds and he is completely uselesss. How does he regain back energy (remeber you attributes are pretty much locked since you need marks/expert/beast AND wilderness)
3. What if QZ is killed. Now its you with your 50 damage arrows firing at the SAME rate as the 75 dmg per arrow ranger anyways. Teams that are especially annoyed by QZ will take it down. And no Oath Shot for you = no spam. What then?
Please do not respond to those questions with "for 12 seconds we can fire so fast" or "Our first target is down in less than 10 seconds". With the number of times thats been said in this thread already, I think I got it. I was listening to you. Now the question is, are you listening to me?
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Aug 09, 2005, 12:46 PM // 12:46
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#68
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: amsterdam, where male prostitution is legal
Guild: [GGG] Gay Guild Gals
Profession: W/R
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Don't contribute to the flaming.
-Scaphism
The best Judge's Insight build I've tried is JI + Melandru's Arrows + 9 second of Tiger's Fury. Beats your QS running out of energy in 5 - 8 shots.
Last edited by Scaphism; Aug 09, 2005 at 06:55 PM // 18:55..
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Aug 09, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55
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#69
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Guild: [GSS][SoF][DIII]
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QS builds dont run out of energy. At least ot if they didnt cast QZ
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Aug 09, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15
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#70
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: Rest En Pieces [RIP]
Profession: Me/W
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The R/W quickshot ranger works because he's able to draw on a separate pool (Adrenaline) for defensive stamina while shooting arrows. NOT because of frenzy, which gets him killed rather fast.
There's no point in bringing QZ. 80% of the time, you can count on the enemy to plop one down for you.
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Aug 09, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26
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#71
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
QS builds dont run out of energy. At least ot if they didnt cast QZ
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QS builds will run out of energy even if not under QZ assuming you are trying to buff your attacks reasonably.
And the JI+MA+TF build is a staple "kill aything" build that will hit damage spike higher than a QS build and will have better long-term success.
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Aug 09, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01
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#72
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Ascalonian Squire
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how does the JI+MA+TF build work? Does it use normal attacks, or penetrating/dual shot, or a combination of those?
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Aug 09, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15
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#73
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jun 2005
Profession: Mo/Me
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IMO, MA kicks QS's ass. I don't doubt that you can fire your bow like a gatling gun with QS, but MA packs more punch per arrow, especially against eles and boon monks.
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Aug 09, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32
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#74
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loc87
how does the JI+MA+TF build work? Does it use normal attacks, or penetrating/dual shot, or a combination of those?
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I've made many variations of the build, but I dont have the stats for most anymore. Key things to remember are you can have someone spam JI or Orders on you since you dont want to do that yourself. Use a Vampiric bow since Energy will probably not be a problem, but have a backup Zealous Bow anyway. If you want the R/E path then you need an Elemental Bow for the conjure.
Zealous Bow Version: very iffy
R/Mo
Strength of Honor
Melandru's Arrows
Dual Shot
Tiger's Fury
Penetrating Attack
Distracting Shot
Zephyr/FW/Barbed Trap/anything
R/N
Just add in a utility skill like Rend
R/E
Get the Elemental bow and pump a Conjure up. The DPS is going to be pretty high due to MA+Conjure hitting seperately, and Dual Shot triggering twice for both resulting in 4 numbers+bleeding. Under TF this is going to be a very big energy drain so you'll probably need outside energy management like BiP.
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Aug 09, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20
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#75
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Guild: [GSS][SoF][DIII]
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Strength of Honor only works on melee attacks. And your missing JI. I suspect a mind fart. You probably meant JI in that first slot. Using Currently you need 5 attributes (wild/marks/expert/beast/smite) so how do you spen attributes (not attacking, I want to know)
I think maybe
11+3 Expert
9+2 Marks
9+1 Wild
3+1 Beast
5 Smite
0 dead points yay! Thats about as good as it can get. You get a 7 second TF, and a Decently long (notsure exactly) JI. If you can get JI externally, you can drop Smite entirely and pump either marks or wilderness one more notch.
I like those skills, I think Id pick Favorable Winds for the 7th slot, myself.
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Aug 09, 2005, 10:56 PM // 22:56
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#76
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Guest
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Whoops on SoH. Meh, I keep thinking i had a 3rd # on a MA build before.
I didnt include JI because it's better for it to be casted from an outside source.
Leave marks at 9. Use 2 superiors for Wilds and Expertise and a super Vigor. Use a minor for marks and 3+1 BM. Drop everything else into the line buffing your attacks on the secondary.
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Aug 09, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15
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#77
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Guild: [GSS][SoF][DIII]
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Definately would be great to get JI from a real smiter, but that deoesnt always happen... see if this guy needs a smiter, and the smiter needs a warrior to cast balths on, and the group needs a monk, thats an entire arena team. No room for any other classes that you may need or want.
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Aug 09, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38
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#78
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Guest
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Just have the smiter cast balths on himself and walk right in.
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Aug 10, 2005, 03:15 AM // 03:15
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#79
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Guild: Nuclear Babies
Profession: E/Mo
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sorry, but smiters really need their warriors with their speed buffs... especially the ele/monk smiters with balthazar's aura, zealots fire, and ether renewal + draw conditions spam
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Aug 10, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30
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#80
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: amsterdam, where male prostitution is legal
Guild: [GGG] Gay Guild Gals
Profession: W/R
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Quote:
And the JI+MA+TF build is a staple "kill aything" build that will hit damage spike higher than a QS build and will have better long-term success.
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Yay! Agreeance! Green Tea Ice Cream > All.
I hope this doesn't turn out to be the standard build for Rangers now, it's very damaging.
This is my build (I rarely play this build in 4v4 but have never lost due to the brilliance of my teammates)
9 Beast Mastery
10 Smiting Prayers
The rest as you see fit.
Tiger's Fury
Melandru's Arrows
Judge's Insight
Favorble Winds
Skill
Skill
Skill
Rez Signet
Tactics:
Favorable Winds, when enemy is in range, cast Judge's Insight, prepare Melandru's Arrows, then Tigers Fury ONCE. Once it's over, shoot normally until JI and MA run out and cast them again, then TF ONCE, rinse and repeat.
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