Curse

smurfhunter · Aug 23, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

aaah guys i dont know how to stress the fact that this is 4-4, not tombs. in tombs i go all healing and let the prot and 3rd monk save me if i get ganked. BUT this is 4-4.

lemme say that again: this is 4-4

ok?

im interested in... self healing/prot with either an attrib in blood magic, or a good energy management elite with an attrib in one of the monk attribs.

i just dont want you guys wasting your time writing things that really dont apply. i mean thanks for the build NIB...but...

Schorny · Aug 23, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

Peace and harmony is useless since it will be removed easily by nr or whatever. Divine spirit is semiuseless with the 60sec recharge.

I thought we talked about arena?

And all I gave were some examples what a monk can do for energy management.

Neo-LD · Aug 23, 2005, 02:55 PM // 14:55

In 4v4 you either have 2 monks or if you are the only monk, you go heal/prot. Healing Touch + Prot Spirit > spike.

Or you could run pure healing with divine boon vigorous spirit healing touch and contemplation of purity, in which case you can use a booned touch (16 DF) and then hit contemplation (1/4s cast) for the most insane self healing in the game.

Lumanis · Aug 23, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Sherman Tank
www.cracknight.com

9 Divine
9 Tactics
Rest Healing [+3]

Orison
Healing Touch
Healing Breeze
---Optional Slot--- (Healing Seed)
Rez Sig
Shield Stance
Bonnetti's Defense
Gladiator's Stance

The 3 defensive stances allow you to virtually ignore warriors.
The only time they punch through your stances is if you are not able to get in enough standard attacks between heals (bonettis).
Gladiator stance IS optional, but the 30 second recycle makes helps you keep near 100% uptime on stances.

This is my base build.
I've made about 10 useful and fun variations of this; all of them pwn in the random arenas.
You can swap Gladiator's Defense with Defensive stance to experiment with other elites in your optional slot (spell breaker, etc).

Honestly; playing any monk build w/ out a shield and stances makes me feel like a naked pu$$y.
You can just heal through spikes while you ignore warriors.

smurfhunter · Aug 23, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

interesting idea Lumanis, but for some reason i usually go through my energy faster than you, and i dont think i can last without the +12 on the ankh *and* without some kind of energy management.

on the other hand, i saw this ridiculously amazing build someone used to basically outlast other monks (in 4-4), and keep us alive while we slowly cut down the enemies monk. it was about 20 wins in team arenas, strating in random arenas (fyi)

the build (as far as i could see) was this:
attribs:
all divine favor and all prot. as far as i could see secondary wasnt used.

elite:
___ aura. i forget the exact name, but it was the enchant that lasts 60 seconds and says 'target gets +50% healing from all sources'. (its +50% only because he has alot of divine favor)

he used essence bond on himself, and spammed prot spirit alot. other than that he used his like 42 hp divine healing bonus with reversal to heal me.

its a kind of rough idea but he didnt really 'heal' per se, he let you *last*. since starting from random arenas, almost everyone in the group had a self heal, and that elite spirit was letting me heal about 200 with healing signt.

and the entire team went after him, i would see his hp kind of steadily, but really slowly, work its way down. (keyword slowly). while most monks i was with had a kind of 'spike heal', they would use things like heal other and healing touch, ie health going all over the place.

once we managed to drop the enemy monk, it was like knocking down a tower of playing cards, the players fell one by one, and never really recovered.

i never saw a team kill/beat him, because he quit before that.

can anyone fill in some of the blanks in this build i outlined?

*edit* the build as far as i know:

1) protective spirit
2) ___ aura {E}
3) mend condition
4) reversal of fortune
5) essence bond
6) -unknown- (blessed signt? never saw it used but its a possibility)
7) -unknown-
8) -unknown-

Lumanis · Aug 23, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

interesting idea Lumanis, but for some reason i usually go through my energy faster than you, and i dont think i can last without the +12 on the ankh *and* without some kind of energy management.

---------------------------------------------

Bonneti's defense is your energy management.
Breeze yourself; hit bonneti's; and your back to full in a few seconds (as long as somebody is attacking you).

Sometimes I throw a seed and and extra breeze somewhere else to dump my energy to 0 before I hit bonneti's (assuming somebody is on u).

I run with 30-35 energy with a shield and a wand; U can also sub out Shield stance w/ a stance that doesn't require a shield (bonneti and gladiator don't require shield).

About 15% of the time groups have trouble killing me after my team is dead.... this depends on group make-up. Sometimes they just outright can't do it.

smurfhunter · Aug 23, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

no offense Lumanis, but im trying to balance surviving and healing. personally your build looks more geared toward personal survival. but thanks for the advice, i will definetly give it a shot

Ensign · Aug 24, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Monk/Warrior Stance builds like that are incredibly effective against mediocre teams actually - they'll spot the monk (you), and keep attacking you despite how poorly they're faring. It isn't particularly effective against really bad teams (who attack whoever), and good teams (who realize you're more of a tank than a healer and wipe out the rest of your team instead). Of course you don't see good teams in random arena, so...

Peace,
-CxE

smurfhunter · Aug 24, 2005, 01:44 AM // 01:44

actually i usually am one of those persons in bad teams that continues attacking despite how poorly im faring. my rationale is if no one harrasses the monk, he can easily keep 3 people alive unless he really is terrible. but ill try to spot one that uses too many stances and thus disables most of the healing. (dont get me wrong - im not dumb enough to sit on this range using a 15 second whirling def... but i make usually change my strat when near healing monks)

trouble is all you see from a stance is 'evade' 'block' and possibly damage, as well as the animation. kinda annoying. (which reminds me, back when you had to hit the cap sig when the boss used it, capturing glads d was a nightmare)

but you are essentially right, it barely matters alot in random arenas because the team usually sucks horribly anyway

gah why do all the forms of pvp have to have such radicly different styles

NIB · Aug 24, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Ok my mistake, i thought we were talking about tombs. Anyway, for arenas, i liked armor of earth. Most teams are noobs and dont even remove it. And even if they remove it, it has low recharge and casting time and its dirt cheap.

Van the Warrior · Aug 24, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

shielding hands and echo....or just have a ranger spam oath + shielding cause dmg redux is nice

Lumanis · Aug 24, 2005, 05:14 AM // 05:14

I've tried every monk build combo I can think of; and thats the one that rules random 4v4... and does quite well in team 4v4.

I bring heal seed; cause the 1-3 warriors realize they can't hit me after a stance or 2.... then I seed their next target.

It's not like your gimping your healing... you have like 16 heal and 9 divine with 4 slots for heals.

I'd love ideas for other 4v4 builds that I havn't tried.... post em if you got em.

Neo-LD · Aug 24, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumanis

I've tried every monk build combo I can think of; and thats the one that rules random 4v4... and does quite well in team 4v4.

I bring heal seed; cause the 1-3 warriors realize they can't hit me after a stance or 2.... then I seed their next target.

It's not like your gimping your healing... you have like 16 heal and 9 divine with 4 slots for heals.

I'd love ideas for other 4v4 builds that I havn't tried.... post em if you got em.

As said before, the build is good vs ok opponents, but good teams will make you pay because:

1) You have no ability to deal with conditions
2) You have no way to deal with hexes
3) Unless they are attacking you (which they will stop doing) you dont have any energy management.
4) Though you can heal ok, no energy management + low energy (cus of no focus) means you will not keep up with the damage for more than ~10-15 seconds.
5) While those stances own warriors and somewhat rangers, eles, necros, mesmers, and smiters will walk right through it.

If you ask me, a much better apporach is a boon/oferring monk (heal or prot pick one, it doesnt matter that much) he can easily keep up with spikes and he can replensh his energy. If you need to brutally deny warriors just bring an earth ele to drop you a ward. (remember, arena is made up of 4 person teams, and 4 people that work together well will beat 4 people with Im-so-cool-I-can-do-everything characters that happen to be on the same side)

Lumanis · Aug 24, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

It's all theorycraft @ this point, but you can't do any of the things above when your running from a hammer warrior (or 2).
In addition... you can't even heal your own team.

Either way; try the stance builds if you havn't already.
I gave you a base template, and it is easily modified.

You can add Hex removal; condition removal; spellbreaker...
You can run 2 stances instead of 3.
You can throw a weapon skill up to 9 and use a style (Faster attack speed = more bonnetis = more energy)
You can throw protection up to 9 and use protective spirit.
You can put Smite @ 9 for Wrath (Wrath + Gladiators on warrior = hurt).

I run the sherman tank so many different ways that it never gets boring.