Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Nov 20, 2005, 07:40 AM // 07:40

I've decided to go power ranger and not look back... *gah*

Check this out. [I'm not a ranger expert so I'm confused as to a good energy manager]

R/Mo [maximum damage]

12+1+3 Marksmanship (yep, as much damage as I can squeeze)
8+1 Expertise
8 Smiting Prayers
7+1 Beast Mastery

Hunter's Shot
Power Shot
Penetrating Shot
Dual Shot
Marksman's Wager {E}
Tiger's Fury
Judge's Insight / Strength of Honor
Res Signet / Ressurect

I'm definitely considering hunting for a good Marksmanship Elite. I'm hearing lots of raves about Barrage {E} in PvE and Crippling Shot {E} in PvP. [anti-flag runners]

My question is how can I pump my damage up further? This is a sniper type build to turn my enemies into mush from 110+ ft. away in short order.

I was thinking using this modified build but I run into a problem:

16 marks
9 expertise
8 beast mastery
8 smiting

Quick Shot {E}
Power Shot
Penetrating Shot
Pin Down
Read the Wind
Tiger's Fury
Judge's Insight
Res Sig / Ressurect

How do I get the energy to keep up the rapid fire beat down build of this thing? I can't see any good energy manager for a spiker type ranger... [good as in near re-usable and high efficiency]

/me is ranger n00bed...

mortalis doleo · Nov 20, 2005, 11:04 AM // 11:04

energy management isn't a huge problem with expertise.
your quick-shot will only cost 3 energy, so you shouldn't worry too much...

still, i may be wrong.

rii · Nov 20, 2005, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Get 14 expertise: the added damage of a bow at 14 marks over 11 isnt going to set the world alight, especially in pve. Then, (although my knowledge of expertise break points is zero) your quickshot costs 2. Then, zealous bow and its 1. Since your firing quickshot-normal-shot-quickshot most of the time, the shots are basically free. Then, you have 2 pips spare to pay for tigers fury, which is 4 every 10. 2 pips is 2 every 3 or about 7 every 10. Thats running tf and qs-ns continuously with a net gain of about 4 energy every 10 seconds. Add a prep of say, ignite, which is 2 energy every 24s (call it 20s), then that means over a 20s period you make a total of 6 energy. You can use this on stuff like duel shot and the like for adding damage. As for judges insight.... drop it for now. Its a lot of energy... unless you can get +20% enchant mods on bows, which would be useful, and i dont know the mechanics of barrage/zealous but if you gain energy per enemy hit, barrage bots get away with it. If its per attack gain, stuff it.
In terms of adding damage, fw/win and ignite arrows gives +27/37 damage per attack (i think) which is mighty fine. The aoe damage from ignite also helps, and if the 'bug' is still there, its a great skill for dispersing mobs (the aoe did trigger them to scatter - it may have been fixed though).
For a pve qs ranger then:

Expertise: 11+3
Marksmanship: 10+1
Wilderness Survival: 10+1
Beast Mastery: Whatevers left +1

Quick Shot [e]
Tigers Fury
Duel Shot
Ignite Arrows
Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent
Favourable Winds
Res Sig/Winnowing/Barbed Trap

If you want a pvp qs build, there are two roads you can go down. Relying on spirits gives big returns, but of course you have to make sure you keep them up since the enemy can just take them down. The other road gives less damage but a bit of shutdown:

Pvp Qs Build #1:

Expertise: 11+3
Marksmanship: 10+1
Beast Mastery: 10+2

Quick Shot [e]
Duel Shot
Tigers Fury
Favorable Winds
Winnowing
Res Sig
Savage Shot/Distracting Shot
Read the Wind

Well, im still not sure how fw/rtw stackage works, but it should be fixed soon... so just get on with it -.- Winnowing for more damage, then basically same as before. Your 'spike' is duel shot-quickshot-savageshot for 4 arrows in a very short space of time. If you get it right with some other rangers, you get a kill every 5s.

Pvp Qs Build #2:

Expertise: 11+3
Marksmanship: 10+1
Beast Mastery: 10+2

Quick Shot [e]
Tigers Fury
Read the Wind
Duel Shot
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot
Debilitating Shot
Res Sig

More a ca build, the damage drops off due to lack of spirits, but with distracting and debilitating thrown in you can mess up casters. Combined with 4 teammates, you can systematically nuke 40 energy out of a monk straight off the bat, putting pressure on. Then, the mass of interrupts should be enough if your good, most people need punishing and concussion, which are standard for interrupting proper, but distract/savage can let you hit a lot of stuff without bending the build around it.

Kaospryx · Nov 20, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Oh btw, Strength of Honor only affects melee. Barrage can still do nice damage in PvP, since it has a +XX modifier for 5 energy and 1 recharge.

rii · Nov 20, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

+9 isnt the best ever.... but i suppose stacked with spirits it can be alright.

Whos talking about stregth of honor?

jesh · Nov 21, 2005, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Of course you need expertise for sustaining QS and attacks, and a zealous string helps tons. However, you can see that he's using JI. That's not a skill, and it's a huge tax to his energy bar. With max in marksman, for DAMAGE, he'll have trouble keeping his energy up if he goes with QS. I'm sure Yukito knows how to make a run-of-the-mill QS ranger, but that's not what he wants. As far as monk secondary.. there's nothing, that's why monks always choose a second proffesion. Ranger doesn't have much besides Wager.. and Melandru's Resiliance. Uh.. other than that.. Think you're out of luck.

I remember I wanted to try something similair on my ranger, but never got around to it. Basically, my thoughts were that QS can already boost your dps nice.. just run it without IAS, and make up for it with RtW and JI. Like I said, never got around to it.. I never got to play with Melandru's Arrows, either.

Yukito Kunisaki · Nov 21, 2005, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Reason I want 16 marks is because, like other classes, going maximum for your offensive stat SHOULD be the way to go I'm hoping... That and 11 marks means I'm not doing 100% dmg [wtf?]

How's this for QS type?

8+1+3 Marksmanship
12+1 Expertise
6+1 Beast Mastery
10 smiting
4+1 Wilderness Survival

Gah, energy manager, DOH*

Quick Shot {E}
Penetrating Attack
Power Shot
Favorable Winds
Kindle Arrow
Tiger's Fury
Judge's Insight
Res sig / Resurrect

Not sure if that's enough 'oomph' but would that level of expertise bring me infinite non-normal arrow attacks? What supposed to make a ranger good is overlapping of buffs... Spirit, Stance, Preparation, Enchantment, Skill. That's a lot of damage per arrow.

Is there a way for me to pump this up any further?

a cadet · Nov 21, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

I just wanted to point one thing out - Quick Shot is best used right after a normal bow attack, and recharges incredibly fast (meaning it should be used after any attack you make). Dual Shot also recharges fairly quickly, and works best with some kind of preparation. So as i would see it, your attack order should be something like Dual Shot+ Quickshot, then normal attack + quickshot, normal attack + quickshot, etc. For this reason, i think you would do fine without tigers fury - its not your best friend here since QS doesnt take advantage of it really.

I feel like Penetrating Attack and Power Shot arent doing anything here - you would be better off with interupts like Savage Shot, Distracting Shot - even Concussion Shot if you have the expertise. I do see that you are trying to be creative here, but i still feel that a simpler "ranger spike" build would work better. For example, this would probably be something like this:
Quick Shot/Punishing Shot {E}
Savage Shot
Dual Shot
Ignite Arrows/Read The Wind
-4 slots for spirits, resing, extras-

Those simple attacks are really enough, you would do great damage per arrow if you take Quick Shot, or more of a spike if you took Punishing Shot, and you could interupt someone for really as long as you want with Savage Shot.

Anyway good luck with your build.

Yukito Kunisaki · Nov 21, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by a cadet

I just wanted to point one thing out - Quick Shot is best used right after a normal bow attack, and recharges incredibly fast (meaning it should be used after any attack you make). Dual Shot also recharges fairly quickly, and works best with some kind of preparation. So as i would see it, your attack order should be something like Dual Shot+ Quickshot, then normal attack + quickshot, normal attack + quickshot, etc. For this reason, i think you would do fine without tigers fury - its not your best friend here since QS doesnt take advantage of it really.

I feel like Penetrating Attack and Power Shot arent doing anything here - you would be better off with interupts like Savage Shot, Distracting Shot - even Concussion Shot if you have the expertise. I do see that you are trying to be creative here, but i still feel that a simpler "ranger spike" build would work better. For example, this would probably be something like this:
Quick Shot/Punishing Shot {E}
Savage Shot
Dual Shot
Ignite Arrows/Read The Wind
-4 slots for spirits, resing, extras-

Those simple attacks are really enough, you would do great damage per arrow if you take Quick Shot, or more of a spike if you took Punishing Shot, and you could interupt someone for really as long as you want with Savage Shot.

Anyway good luck with your build.

Wow, good advice for this R/X noob...

Anyways, since rangers focus on massive buff stacking, I suppose spreading out my stats to accomodate enchant, stance, prep, skill, spirit stacking would probably turn each arrow I shoot into flying death...

Will post a newer super stacking dmg spike build laters...

beginners_luck · Nov 21, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

I've been playing around with a Pindown + Virulence Ranger/Necromancer lately, and well, it really pisses people off. I figure I'm doing my job if I get three warriors to stop what they're doing and come pound me. Precision Shot and Savage Shot have been glued to my bar as well. Marksman's Wager and Double Shot solves any Ranger's energy problems, if they're not a Mesmer secondary and lack enough Expertise.

If you want pure damage, stick with your Ranger/Monk setup, but pump Expertise to 16 or so. With Judge's Insight, I don't see anything a Ranger has beating Point-blank Shot in terms of damage. And it recharges pretty fast. You do sacrifice range, though it's not too bad if you're using a longbow or equivalent.

Falconer · Nov 22, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Firstly at only 9 expertise... you have 5->3 costs.. and your 10->6. And you're complaining about energy.

Rangers are a lot different than other classes. So running your weapon to 16 is not what you're after. That'll boost the base weapon damage SLIGHTLY but not enough to justify your point investment. Your damage is largely based on your +dam sources as opposed to your basic weapon. The problem is largely that ranger marksmanship attacks are overcost because they expect the expertise to be there. If it isn't... you'll hit energy problems.

Most people don't realize it at first. But quickshot is EXTREMELY energy hungry. At best it will offset your natural regen. And with 2 10 energy bow attacks plus JI... that means that your pool is empty after you've used those bowshots about 4 times... while quickshoting nonstop. After that you're spent... with no way to make the energy back. And rangers aren't sprinters... they're marathoners in game. (unless you're part of a spike.. in which case you should keep those skills ready for the last minute target switch and timing sequence)... your goal should be sustained mid-high damage output with occasional surges. (hint most quickshot builds don't go for big damage attacks, but aim to leverage the most out of their +dam sources... so they go for the dual shot/quickshot combo to maximize the sheer number of arrows).

Making it worse you have judge's insight which is 10 energy every 20s at HIGH ranks (let alone the middling ranks you have). I still contend it's better to have a support character like an El/Mo cast judges insight rather than the player themselves. (with it's time and recycle and with a 12 rank investment you can keep it on 2 seperate players full time with this setup). The el/mo can easily cast other skills like balth's aura without stressing their energy at all. And in such a setting can easily also help with condition/hex removal as well as adding smite damage to attacks.

You really should be looking at something akin to 10+3 or 11+3 expertise, then 10+2 or 11+2 in marksmanship, which leaves you enough points to run another attribute to 10, AND get beastmastery to 3+1. (tigers fury is worth it if you're out to do damage, and 7s out of 10 is very reasonable for the low attribute investment).

Another thing I see wrong... you're actually using power shot (this is about the dead last skill I'd put on my bar as a marksmanship ranger). It was a worthwhile attack back when it cost 15 energy and had a +38'ish damage add. (the closest thing to a ranger high energy 'nuke' attack). But at the 6s recycle it's not available enough, and it's +dam doesn't compare with penetrating shots +dam especially after armor penetration. But that's back in the games stone ages... Same goes for Point-blank... I'd rather have it at 3s recycle in many cases with the half range penalty... also largely because oftentimes my expertise point allotment is higher than my marksmanship! so it not only ends up doing +2 or 3 more damage per use... it's avaialbe 50% more often)).

If you're after a damage skill combo... I'd stick with hunters shot and penetrating shot. Learn to roll them... with an occasional normal shot when they're both recycling. Learn not to interupt and double pump your bow attacks (timed interupts not withstanding). It's my experience that you need 3 bow attacks for nonstop skill attacks. But two is normally sufficient with the occasional 'tempo' thrown in (to regain a bit of energy... or because you need space on your skillbar for something else). With the changes to the ranger interupts... I not longer just spam them but actively try and time them now target dependant. (EG: elementalists get the shot timed... a monk will have it spammed...)

Also I'd try and work in favourable winds. RtW + favourable ~= +16 per arrow.

Vilaptca · Nov 22, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32

I'm looking, and the only thing I see missing from this discussion is what bow you will be using. I think it really affects your build depending on what one you choose.

VGJustice · Nov 22, 2005, 03:36 AM // 03:36

bow choice is very important. Personally, I'd take either a long bow or a recurve bow for your primary weapon, and a short bow for your secondary weapon. I've also been playing around with a 2 Att. spike build, using 16 marks and 13 Expertise, and the rest be darned. I can do some pretty hefty damage, but after the second enemy, I have to stop spamming skills or I'll run out big time. I've been using Punishing Shot, Dual Shot, Penetrating Shot, and Power Shot mixed with RtW. It's effective, but the loss of everything that's not Marks or Exp. is kinda troubling, especially when you don't have an effective healer.

twicky_kid · Nov 22, 2005, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Reason I want 16 marks is because, like other classes, going maximum for your offensive stat SHOULD be the way to go I'm hoping... That and 11 marks means I'm not doing 100% dmg [wtf?]

16 mark isn't needed since you have your prep to make up for the dmg. get your expertise high as you can not sure on breakpoints. an easy test would be to go out of a town and use troll. increase it till you hit 2 energy cost.

Itok · Nov 22, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

It seems, this is an uneducated (from an HoH/GvG standpoint mind you) that pumping experitice to the inth degree only to use 5nrg skills is a bit silly. Max you can save is 2nrg per shot, 4 on an 10 and so on.

The first char (and prob most favorite to play) is my Ranger so I know of what I'm speaking and how it effects gameplay. But, my approuch to it was that experitise allows me to use greater energy demanding skills at lower costs.

Czan I not see the benefit or 80-+ pots in a skill to save 2 nrg per use becasue i ahve no experience with the HoH side or is there a bit of shortsitedniss on the part of the participants thus far? Not shortsighted in a bad, flame way, jsut the generic term.

Im asking as while reading this i can see the advantages to a high epxertice build with low nrg shots and think it semi worthwhile but would like to hear form the folks who have applied this share their views and exeprience.

and thx for sharing thus far.

=)

Shwitz · Nov 22, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

The breakpoint for lowering 5 energy skills to 2 energy is 13 Expertise. 10 energy skills are lowered to 5 energy at 12 Expertise, and to 4 energy at 14 Expertise. Because of this, my Expertise is never below 13, usually at 14. When using a zealous bow in a build that has a good IAS engine, your sustainability is excellent with high Expertise. Most of my builds end up having the attribute setup of 14 Expertise, 12 Marksmanship, and 11 Wilderness Survival. I know, no Tiger's Fury. But if you do want to use Quick Shot with JI, I'd recommend something akin to this: 13 Expertise (10+3), 12 Marksmanship (10+1+1), 9 Smiting Prayers, and 8 Wilderness Survival (7+1). Wilderness would probably only be for your preparation, so if you want you can do an 11-10-10 variant with Exp, Marks, and Smiting and use Read the Wind instead of Kindle/Ignite. I'd probably recommend the Exp/Marks/Smiting 11-10-10 with RtW for the simple fact that with RtW, you can use a flatbow and not worry so much about the accuracy.

jesh · Nov 23, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

I second the motion on flatbows+FW/RtW, but I don't think that all this abuse because he wants to use JI is necessary. Who knows, maybe he'll be able to pull it off. I'd probably go with your original build for R/Mo, but throw out power shot for RtW. If you take QS, I don't see how anything can save you from the energy holes you'll be facing with JI in play. Short of essence bond on your monk maybe.

Yukito Kunisaki · Nov 24, 2005, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Hmm, decisions decisions.

I've not heard anyone defending the idea of keeping Tiger's Fury in the build. Is that because TF is for DoT rather than surprise spiking? Saving atb points? Not sure...

JI does monstrous damage. In PvP vs. other rangers and warriors, I found my Penetrating Shot and Dual Shot clocking in at 130 dmg each... [dual shot was like 200+ dmg... on softies] This was with RtW in play as well...

I guess Damage Stacking is the key to this build's max potential. I'll need a Stance buff, prep, enchantment, skill, heck, let's add conditions to the mix. Here's what I tested today and it turned out quite dangerous oddly enough. I think I will consider dropping Marks to 12 to bump up Exp. to 13...

8+1+3 Marksmanship
12+1 Expertise
6+1 Beast Mastery
Rest to Smiting

Hunter's Shot
Called Shot
Quick Shot {E} (need to cap this baby)
Read the Wind
Favorable Winds
Tiger's Fury
Bane Signet
Judge's Insight

Ok. Tested this [used Pen. Shot instead of QS in 4v4 CA] and got some decent results. The stacking became quite nutty when everything fell into place. My non-skill attacks dealt upwards of 90+ dmg on almost everybody and I was shooting like a madman.

Here's the stack:

Read the Wind, Favorable Winds, Judge's Insight, Bleeding, Hunter's Shot +19, Tiger's Fury, and Bane Signet to fuel Hunter's Shot if the enemy is attacking and not moving...

So each of my 'normal' shots are buffed with +14~ bonus damage and 20% armor penetration. The specials allowed me to either unleash a full barrage of skills should they get blocked [yay Determined Shot] or add in another boost in damage...

Is there any more damage stackers I can use with this build? I'd say for a hex but I don't see any damage hexes within Smite Line...

tafy69 · Nov 24, 2005, 10:01 AM // 10:01

does Barrage work with judges insight?

its not a prep so im guessing it would, any1 tried?

JR · Nov 24, 2005, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Yes, it does. It also works with the conjure line of skills if you got R/E.