Curse

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 02, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Been working on QZ for a little, and this skill practically has only one purpose now. The disruption of opponent team at a great cost of you, and just so the opponent can get rid of it easily. You can't hide it, it cost 25 energy with short duration. This is a good skill to waste 25 energy, not like they can't interrupt you or if you do succeed in getting it out; 2 sec is all they need to kill it.

Comments?
I see this skill work in 5% of the builds out there, and those build probably aren't as effective as builds that doesn't use it.

Divine Elemental · Dec 02, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Disagree With you

in PvP QZ is very viable in my opinion
Play Smart not Harder

since as u say they find it well dont u have obstacles to hide it?
even if its 25 energy u can run it
Spirit Spamming is still Possible not as efficient as it used to be but it still works

Sir Aurik · Dec 02, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54

QZ costs 25 energy? Do u have 0 expertise?

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 02, 2005, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Elemental

Disagree With you

in PvP QZ is very viable in my opinion
Play Smart not Harder

since as u say they find it well dont u have obstacles to hide it?
even if its 25 energy u can run it
Spirit Spamming is still Possible not as efficient as it used to be but it still works

and lets say you are not using spirit spamming tactic?

QZ require a very specific build, while it does not require a very specific build to stop it.

Joker · Dec 02, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

In PvE it works well in trapper groups combined with EW, if the person spamming spirits has SQ then they can keep it going indefinately. I agree that for PvP I dont see alot of use for it, but then again I dont PvP just a whole lot.

Xasew · Dec 02, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

and lets say you are not using spirit spamming tactic?

QZ require a very specific build, while it does not require a very specific build to stop it.

QZ is the most powerful thing to help with energy denial, if you can keep it up the enemy won't have any energy(Mantra of Inscriptions+QZ+Echo+Signet of Weariness...).

If it requires a specific build, doesn't mean that it's bad. 14 in Expertise and it'll cost 11 energy, with Oath Shot it's really not hard to keep up.

yangster · Dec 02, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Use expertise before saying it's unusable.

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 03, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Some people here need to consider reading classes.

"Nearly" unusable. Obviously I know you can use with spirit spam, and expertise, DUH? Get a grip guys, have you EVER consider using it outside of expertise and OS? Probably not, since most of you just copy other people's build.

Please don't post any more "copied idea" in here.

If you do got a creative use for QZ that is not today's standard, please make your comment.

Now I probably sounds like an arrogant elitist, but the truth is, I do not want any typical crap the society is using. I push for outside the box, and this thread made for the purpose of pushing out of the box.

Former Ruling · Dec 03, 2005, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Some people here need to consider reading classes.

"Nearly" unusable. Obviously I know you can use with spirit spam, and expertise, DUH? Get a grip guys, have you EVER consider using it outside of expertise and OS? Probably not, since most of you just copy other people's build.

Please don't post any more "copied idea" in here.

If you do got a creative use for QZ that is not today's standard, please make your comment.

Now I probably sounds like an arrogant elitist, but the truth is, I do not want any typical crap the society is using. I push for outside the box, and this thread made for the purpose of pushing out of the box.

So you say the skill is nearly unusable....because it is used mostly in popular builds, therefore doesn't count? The same can be said for half the skills in the game.

Example: Work Awaken the Blood into a Minion Master/Death only Necromancer build and I'll give you a cookie. Acutally - Work it into ANY build that doesn't use mostly Blood or curse magic and you'll get your cookie. (Your response: OMG - You only use Awaken the blood when using blood and curse skills?, THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX you build copier.")

Sorry...I just cant see your logic.

Dmitri3 · Dec 03, 2005, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Now I probably sounds like an arrogant elitist, but the truth is, I do not want any typical crap the society is using. I push for outside the box, and this thread made for the purpose of pushing out of the box.

If you don't want any crap the society is using, why write here? Why don't you lock yourself in an abandoned tower and there, there you can create your evil build.

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 03, 2005, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

So you say the skill is nearly unusable....because it is used mostly in popular builds, therefore doesn't count? The same can be said for half the skills in the game.

Example: Work Awaken the Blood into a Minion Master/Death only Necromancer build and I'll give you a cookie. Acutally - Work it into ANY build that doesn't use mostly Blood or curse magic and you'll get your cookie. (Your response: OMG - You only use Awaken the blood when using blood and curse skills?, THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX you build copier.")

Sorry...I just cant see your logic.

I can see why you don't get it, obviously you can not appreciate thinking outside the box. Yes, I constantly try things that shouldn't have fit together, and that is the point of this topic. If no one ever try to fit different things togethher, no new build is going to be discover.

Now if you are not going to post something more interesting than saying "this skill can only do this" or "I don't see your logic" then don't post anymore. I won't even bother replying to you after this, unless it is something related to the topic.

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 03, 2005, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

If you don't want any crap the society is using, why write here? Why don't you lock yourself in an abandoned tower and there, there you can create your evil build.

Perhaps you are right. I had been doing that ever since when the game was released, now I just want to see if people get more grip in creativity. Apparently not, very disappointing.

Even my guild couldn't reach my expectation of exploring the possibility, no surprise I left the guild and decided to be guildless.

Dmitri3 · Dec 03, 2005, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Perhaps you are right. I had been doing that ever since when the game was released, now I just want to see if people get more grip in creativity. Apparently not, very disappointing.

Even my guild couldn't reach my expectation of exploring the possibility, no surprise I left the guild and decided to be guildless.

Actually I am trying to be creative. However I'm not trying to create the only and first build of the type ever.
Maybe we should exchange some builds some day...

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 03, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Actually I am trying to be creative. However I'm not trying to create the only and first build of the type ever.
Maybe we should exchange some builds some day...

Most of my build already spread into the community as I am using it in the comp arena (tomb is out of the question as the chance of getting people and guidless). Also I don't claim for discovering a build, because that is just kind of stupid and unfair to people who had thought of it themselves later.

If you got a theme idea, I will be glad to help. However, if it is just an existant build that need a few twist, I am sure one person alone is capable of fixing it.

entropy · Dec 03, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Perhaps you are right. I had been doing that ever since when the game was released, now I just want to see if people get more grip in creativity. Apparently not, very disappointing.

Even my guild couldn't reach my expectation of exploring the possibility, no surprise I left the guild and decided to be guildless.

Ohh I see how you are. Just like an emo person. The REASON people run specific builds is because they are more efficient/better than other ones. Run your creative/utter crap/subpar builds. Get owned by the typical X build and whine about it. The people who came up with the fragility build were creative. The people who came up with IWAY were creative. The people who came up with Spirit Spam were creative. And you know what half of the creative builds got nerfed! Get over it people are not gonna waste time creating builds that are subpar but "creative". If it is a creative build that Anet hasn't thought of it gets nerfed. I'm not saying spirit spam shouldn't be nerfed it needed to be for game balance. I relate it to emo people because ANTI-CONFORMITY=CONFORMITY God stop trying to say I want to think outside the box. People much better/smarter at this game have done it. It leads them to create some of the best/most efficient builds and then people simply copy the best.

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 03, 2005, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Haha, now I see a better reason for this topic. A good laugh. The moment I saw there was yet another new reply, I was interested to hopfully see an interesting reply. Then I saw it and tried to read it, then I laughed. Why? Because I am asking myself why do I even bother? It is laughable.

Anyway, I will just ignore any post that is not related to skill/build. Anyone try to post anymore like those above, you are really an idiot. I hope I won't see people trying to come in to show others that he/she is an idiot (why are you posting those kind of crap when I already wrote that I will ignore it? Idiotic indeed). If you don't want that tag, post something interesting.

Tell me something I don't know.

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 03, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Anyway, maybe I should post what I tested.

I decided to test out how well QZ and Mantra of recovery stack. Apparently not much at all. I was hoping to make a build that is able to get out 3 backfire within shortest amount of time when I looked at QZ. In the end, the build worked better without QZ. That was when I thought, what way can I use QZ without OS and Expertise? So I started to gather more info/ideas, and I tried the forums.

The build is not really set yet. I am still using mantra of recovery, and exploring other ways. I did the arcane echo and echo before already, however the weakness in that is the energy mangagement. With mantra of recovery, I can even speed up energy management skills too. The build obviously required fast casting attribute to get backfire out fast, I had thought of glyph of renewal already but that don't have stability; it also suffer from energy mangagement.

Dmitri3 · Dec 03, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Ok, I understand what you're trying to do, but I'm more interested in how well monk's line will work with QZ. Since all kind of monks suffer from 30% more cost (and openly complain about it), I thought about Divine Protector (actually my favorite monk type).
This is hard to test with only one character, since you need to have one Mo/E and another spirit spammer (or just 2 rangers with these spirits, replacing them over and over).

Primary skills: Glyph of Renewal+Divine Spirit(16 divine favor, can be less cause QZ lowers recharge of the Glyph)= turns all 5 energy monk's skills into 1 energy skills. If you need more healing capacity, activate Divine Boon.
I also thought about not using Glyph, but recharge at 30 secs is still pretty big.

Now if it works like I supposed it to: Divine Spirit turns all 5 energy spells into 1 energy spells. Therefore 130% on 1 energy is still 1 energy. And since Divine Boon is an enchantment, it can only take 2 energy for a cast - 130% doesn't work on this bonus.
Thus with QZ, RoF will be 1 sec recharge - ultimate healing/protection :P.

Now, does it work as I supposed it to work, or it is working differently?

Dmitri3 · Dec 03, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

OK, I have tested it with Mo/R and low QZ, it seemed not bad... at start... but then I noticed that I loose 2 energy instead of 1 with QZ and Divine Spirit up.
Means 4 energy regeneration doesn't offset the 2 energy per second.

, any suggestions?
Maybe add a W/Mo Succor'ing so the energy per sec would be at least around 1.7, means you loose 0.3 per sec if you cast RoF non-stop?
And then consider this spirit to drain enemy monks using pressure builds.

_____
EDIT: This is confirmed, the energy loss is -2 energy. Just went with 0 energy regen in CA and tested it (dam, random arena guys will hate me

).

Vermilion Okeanos · Dec 03, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I actually went for a VERY different direction for a monk under QZ.

Believe or not, I went Mo/R (O.o). The main reason being signet of devotion, melandru's resilence, and serpent quickness. This kind of Mo/R should be able to handle more than just QZ, it should even able to heal under backfire and energy denial.

Hmm... I got like 4 minutes before I must rush out, I think I post more after I come back.