Curse

dansamy · Oct 07, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

IWAY in and of itself is still not the problem. The underlying infrastructure of the rank system automatically categorizes players with 0/0 fame/rank as "noobs" simply because they lack the benefit of experience in Tombs. They can't get that experience unless they play. And the only way they can currently play is to make their own group (something most of them are not prepared to do) or to play IWAY. There is no fostering system in GW, whereby an inexperienced individual can get some training and advice from a more experienced player. They are automatically lumped into the pile of newbies at the bottom of the barrel. I can tell you that when my guild runs our modified IWAY, we rarely run into an IWAY PUG that can beat us. And the random W/R we may have picked up to fill our slots out to 8 learn from how we run the build and what skills we have them take. Sometimes we get a total lost cause that can't/won't follow a target. He's quickly replaced at our next loss with a player that might have potential.

wsmcasey · Oct 07, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight of Eternal Darknes

how are you going to judge based on experience on someone you don't know, i could have made a mesmer in a week and be in tombs or use a pvp character and say i have a lot of experience with mesmer, whats to stop a player from lying that they're experienced to get into a group

In PvE you gain experience and open the map by playing the game with a character, but you take a serious hit if you delete that character because you have to start over in pre-searing when you make a new character. PvE'rs are not afforded the luxury of pickin up where they left off with a brand new character like in PvP.

If you want to partially fix the issue of rank among old and new characters, then keep the rank separate for each character that you creat and give PvP'rs the option to change second professions without having to rebuild there character. This would eliminate a rank 3 iway warrior trying to cross over to another character like a mesmer that appears to be rank 3 but would really have zero experience in tombs playing as a mesmer. If you deleted your rank 3 warrior then you would lose your rank and your back to 0. I'm sure alot of people would really hate this but why should PvP have special privileges.

βlitzkrieg · Oct 07, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

No way.

If a group only takes Rank 3+, then that is their problem if they end up with a noob Mesmer.

Why should PvP get special privledges? Because, this game is called Guild WARS. It's a PvP focused game, not a MMO.

wsmcasey · Oct 07, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by βlitzkrieg

No way.

If a group only takes Rank 3+, then that is their problem if they end up with a noob Mesmer.

Why should PvP get special privledges? Because, this game is called Guild WARS. It's a PvP focused game, not a MMO.

Why yes, it is called Guild WARS. Guild WARS is not exclusive to PvP, thats why theres a story line with missions and quests and other things to do besided PvP. Its very similar to a role playing game in that aspect. A-Net caters to both types of players, yet they set vastly different rules and penalties. I'm personally sick of trying to get in a group to PvP and then get kicked because I'm a rank 2. The rank system just plain sucks. A-net is aware of the problem, and I'll bet it gets fixed in a future update.

Edit: if you want to get technical then the name "Guild WARS" would really only apply to GvG. The games not called "Noob Random PUG WARS"

boogaloo · Oct 08, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

If you truly think your a competent player and can play well in a high ranking group, here's what I do:

"R6+ lf blah blah blah, blah bah"
"yo can i join"
"emote"
"my slash key is broken so i cant, i got 761 fame (lie) and i can send screenshot if u want"
"aight watever"
"im serious i spilled coffee on it man, all that rank for nuttin (lie)"

Works around 1/4 of the time

Dargull · Oct 08, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I have guildmates and run a guild where without vent, we still rock people to death...

[the only problem was telling teammates who to interrupt cause there wasn't a ctrl+click way to communicate it. Until now...!!!

]

Can anyone tell me what vent is needed for now? I can't tell...

There's hexes on you? Ctrl+click
You're hexing an enemy? Ctrl+click
You're moving to this position and using a trap? map ping, draw, ctrl+click
You're using enchantments on THIS teammate? Ctrl + Click
You're doing a combo of hexes? Ctrl + click
*the teammate you're doing the combo with should know this before the fight, good preparation beats in-game communication*
You're pinballing? Ctrl + Click, repeat
Enemy is using a skill you want stopped? Ctrl + click the skill up top YAYAY!!!!
Enemy is moving here? ctrl+shift+click, draw map, map ping...
Enemy is camping/guarding? ctrl+shift+click, map ping 2x

Multi-pinging codes and the like can REALLY save on teammate communication skills...

Want your teammates to move here? ctrl+shift+click, draw map, ping...
Want other half to move? repeat with other group, draw map, ping...

I honestly no longer see a use for vent since words can't be conveyed in the RAW detail that this game's "non type/speak" communication system is for...

All true but 9 out of 10 groups will not take you if you don't have vent. So what you just said is all true but also totally besides the point that was being made about why you need vent, we said you need it to get into a group, not because there's no other way to communicate

Monkey Meat · Oct 08, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I have 1 word for IWAY---epidemic---

Guizzy · Oct 08, 2005, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dargull

All true but 9 out of 10 groups will not take you if you don't have vent. So what you just said is all true but also totally besides the point that was being made about why you need vent, we said you need it to get into a group, not because there's no other way to communicate

Haha; that's so unfortunately true.

I'd think the reason why Vent is preferred is that many players like to Ctrl every goddamn spell they use (monks more often than not; We like you casting spells, but you don't have to tell me everytime you heal!). It gets so crowded that many teams just don't pay attention anymore.

Plus, this could be exploited by the enemy team. If they spammed the global chat channel by surprise? Of course, it can be set off, but still, it could be done by surprise.

dansamy · Oct 08, 2005, 08:38 PM // 20:38

I don't ctrl every skill I use when I prot. I do call my shielding hands and aegis though. Nothing pisses me off faster than to waste 15 energy overlapping someone else's aegis.

knives · Oct 08, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guizzy

Haha; that's so unfortunately true.

I'd think the reason why Vent is preferred is that many players like to Ctrl every goddamn spell they use (monks more often than not; We like you casting spells, but you don't have to tell me everytime you heal!). It gets so crowded that many teams just don't pay attention anymore.

Plus, this could be exploited by the enemy team. If they spammed the global chat channel by surprise? Of course, it can be set off, but still, it could be done by surprise.

80% of the groups that I have been in that win halls use vent. Vent has far better sound quality imo, and doesn't have that nasty echo effect like in TS.

IWAY is ruining the credibility of players. Pepole get to r3 with IWAY, then they go out and decide to play another class (say monk) and suck horribly at it. I was in some r3+ pugs today as a monk, and I had breeze put on me, no one called the seeds, and they were running boon as a mo/e. I've also been in some other groups where it seemed like the whole party was doing relatively bad, and it was a guild group too. So that says alot.

Dargull · Oct 09, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

There never was any credibillity to rank anyways since i can go on ebay and buy my self a rank 3/6/9 account and go spam my deer/wolf/tiger/jezus without ever having played a single minute.

I personally am more likely to take a monk advertising as;

Experienced Mo/Me Healer (MoR/Cont. o. P.) have vent/ts, no blind, pm me first.

then one advertising as;

r6 Heal Monk looking for r6+ group

Even if it turns out the top one is only r1 but got 56 fame monking and played monk in pve all the time. He's still likely to know what he's doing. All i'd require beyond that is to maybe take something specific on his build, call his seeds and follow orders. (and have vent :P)

The Linguist · Oct 22, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirGanksAlot

These IWAY builds are becoming absurd. I am posting about it because I heard that ArenaNet does browse the popular forums for suggestions and input. Im just going to give some personal reasons why I dont like IWAY builds and why they should be nerfed.

Subject: Nerf IWAY, The Flavor of the Year.

First off, There is no strategy to an IWAY build. Most people wont even spam chat looking for a group. This is mostly what attracts people to an IWAY build because its an easy way to find a fast group and actually win. People dont have to use teamspeak and dont have to discuss much of anything. You go in, do your thing, and thats that. People will form IWAY groups and most of them will simply join randomly (Aka Blind Invites). Just about every single build I get into, like rangers or spikers or whatever... youll see some idiot IWAY warrior wanting to randomly join the group... because this is all that person knows and there is no strategy to this build. Im repeating myself now so Ill stop... but I know there are vets who know what im talking about and agree!! We need to speak our minds and let ArenaNet know that we dont approve of the IWAY Builds! Theyre for the noobiest of all noobs who dont speak dont talk and dont plan or strategize. The whole concept behind the IWAY Build is 1 thing and 1 thing only: Rush. IWAY = Zerg Rush. Most didnt tolerate it in StarCraft... and we Shouldnt tolerate it here in GuildWars either. Voice your opinion!!

I vote IWAY be nerfed forever as soon as possible. If only because 75% of everyone in tombs is running an IWAY Setup.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to get straight into a battle without having hours of deliberation. I'm finding that the one's who really succeed in the game are the ones who spend more time networking outside of the game than actually playing. This imo is good old bullshit. Who are you to say someone cant go in with minimal preparation and have a few rounds of fun in the tombs. Sooner or later iway always loses when they confront a team of players who make the game more like a business collaberation. So why penalize them. I myself never play iway in case you think I'm biased btw.

Rancour · Oct 22, 2005, 02:20 PM // 14:20

I don't get it... "I Will Avenge You" gives you 33% more attack speed and 2 hp regen per dead ally right? Since regen is capped at 10, wouldn't a surviving warrior using "I Will Avenge You" to get 10 regen, be the same as a warrior/monk with Healing Breeze and Flurry/Frenzy?

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 22, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rancour

I don't get it... "I Will Avenge You" gives you 33% more attack speed and 2 hp regen per dead ally right? Since regen is capped at 10, wouldn't a surviving warrior using "I Will Avenge You" to get 10 regen, be the same as a warrior/monk with Healing Breeze and Flurry/Frenzy?

It can last 45+ seconds in an 8 player group using a bunch of animals. [and just recently, I saw an IWAY group using spirits as their fuel. wtf?]

It's very cheap on the energy cost if you look at it that way. What I don't get is that IWAY groups NEED to work in a clump. What's not stopping the smart caster from just bombing said clump. Now if they're all attacking different targets who happen to be just within range of each other's Fear Me!! then, uh, you're screwed?

2_fingers · Oct 22, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

It's very cheap on the energy cost if you look at it that way. What I don't get is that IWAY groups NEED to work in a clump. What's not stopping the smart caster from just bombing said clump. Now if they're all attacking different targets who happen to be just within range of each other's Fear Me!! then, uh, you're screwed?

There is one very simple counter to most of the n00b iways - those that basically have not experienced certain elements of both pvp and pve. Double spiteful spirit before they charge in. Casting time of spite is very small, i believe 1-2 sec, and its recharge is fast.A.Echo it, and u have 2 sprits that trigger when ever the target uses a skill (inclusive of fear me) or attacks. Cast it again if u can to knock 2 more targets and if they clump up against u, they die.

For the most part, Iway is like thunderhead keep. You keep the people who cant' communicate, cant work as a group (and perhaps plain unlucky) out of tombs. Unless its a specifically designed iway grp or an iway who has very good communication, it is unlikely to go very far because most serious groups have iway counters in their build. Iway simply weeds the unprepared and ignorant.

Scown-dog · Oct 22, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

IWAY has already taken so many hits. Orders spammers can no longer hide, and now they cant sacrafice health at 1 hp anymor. Groups that loose to IWAY just arent skilled. A skilled group is prepared to counter the current flavour. Take into considerations standard IWAY groups cant remove enchantments or hexes.

VGJustice · Oct 22, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: There is something fundamentaly wrong with a group that needs a member of the group to die.

Obviously, this doesn't count towards a minion build, but that's getting 2 fighters every time someone dies, and it doesn't need to be on your team. I tried IWAY a long time ago for PvE, and I found that it had that one tragic flaw.

On the other hand, why havn't I seen you people around? I will admit freely that I'm a HoH newb, and the only groups I've been in either can't press T Space, or their builds are so weak, we end up dieing very badly.

Where are you people that actually try to help people? You must be like 1/1,000,000 or so, because I've NEVER seen anyone do that.

karunpav · Oct 22, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Honestly, I don't get why you think IWAY is so bad. It's just a type of build that a lot of people approve of. It is a good build if you have the right people and skills, and it's a force to be reckoned with if you're not prepared. Most people you see using an IWAY build run the cookie-cutter build: 6 W/R's, 1 tainted necro, and 1 order necro. But some other modificatoins that I've seen are fantastic. They can really do some decent damage. The only problem with IWAY is that it's not to easy to hold HoH with. But besides that, IWAY will always be here, and just wait to be beaten by a new build and be replaced as the flavor of the year.

wat my name is · Oct 22, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

nerf iway? wtf are u smoking? marry joe? iway can be countered ezily by trappers, wards, aoe, and ranger spikers. iway is just a fun way 2 get easy fame becuase all the low rank ppl cant get a single damn group becuase the emote and hsit is rank 3. this is the way for the average joe to get higher rank and shit

Diestro · Oct 22, 2005, 11:20 PM // 23:20

The only thing I don't like about IWAY is, its something I'm not interested in playing. Why would I not like that fact? Because I'm sitting here with 1 fame, and see nothing but iway warriors, orders/tainted necros, and trapping/spike rangers, running around the tombs prep area.

Anyone not running one of these builds has about zero chance of hooking up with a pug. Now for alot people that isn't a problem, they have friends that play, or are in an active pvp guild. For anyone (and yes I mean me) that knows absolutely nobody that plays this game, and who's guild has decided to stick with pve almost exclusively, they're stuck. It'ld be nice if some of you people who despise FotM builds would actually take the initiative to let some of us rank nothing characters into your groups. You might be surprised, and find a good player behind that character. You might find a worthless noob, not willing to listen or learn too, but usually you can sniff those out with a couple questions before entering the tombs. And some of us looking for a good pvp guild might find a new home too.