Curse

Ellix Cantero · Dec 02, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Why would a Warrior get targeted first?

Anyone with half a brain wouldn't do that. Of course, if you play weird counter-warrior strategies, I can't really say anything, but if you trying really hard to counter Warriors as a whole, you are doomed. Just my opinion.

Oh, but it happens alll the time in the CAs. Wa/mo's in their fissure armor run straight for the first enemy warrior they see.

Ellix Cantero · Dec 02, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

This is correct. But, I really appreciate the help. I really want this melee R/W to work. It's how I started playing, so I've got a real soft spot for it

If you're just wanting a fun build to use in the CAs, go sword and use poison + bleeds + ripostes. You can take down two typical CA warriors at once doing so.

If you're taking a pre-made, create the character with sword + shield as well as a bow. Have the bow out at the start of the fight and you'll usually be left alone while you do your initial apply poison prep, then switch to the sword + shield.

BerryRacer · Dec 03, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

Berry, I notice one problem with your build that makes it not very effective for PvP. I'll grant you that if you use Apply Poison, then get surrounded by a mob and use Cyclone Axe + "Victory is Mine!", then yeah, you're gonna get a huge chunk of health and energy. The trouble is, you will almost never encounter that condition in PvP. If the mass wall of melee characters is going to surround anyone, it'll be either an interuptor or a healer/protectionist. Your build is probably very effective for PvE, but I'd personally drop Tactics from just about any R/W for PvP now. Tactics doesn't help as much as Wilderness or Expertise. But, I noticed you took Balanced Stance and Desperation Blow. Does Balanced cancel out the ill side-effect of Desperation?

If I were using an axe, I'd personally take along a bunch of adrenal skills, and in that case, it's better to be Warrior primary.

Hi again, thanks for offering suggestions to help me improve my build, thats one of the reasons i posted it. However there might be some things you don't quite understand so i'll post them

See I'm not dependant on apply posion and cyclone to be surrounded by warrriors thats just a bonus. See like i said before under balance stance i can spam Desperation Blow and continue to hit with my others ...now here is the description of Deperation..

If this attack hits, you strike for +10-34 damage, and your target suffers from one of the following conditions: Deep Wound (for 20 seconds), Weakness (for 20 seconds), Bleeding (for 25 seconds), or Crippled (for 15 seconds). After making a Desperation Blow, you are knocked down.
5 energy 7 second recharge

With 9 tactic's it hits for +28 damage which is the same as the axe elites at the same attribute sets. So yes been able to spam that without the knockdown effect and adding afew conditions as well as quite abit of damage. One thing i did forget to mention is if you play this build in a place where you can set your team, i would very much advise getting someone too bring qz, ofcourse you will need a zealous haft to keep up with the extra energy costs but you can pretty well spam the +28 every 2-4 hits which stacks up the damage very fast...and the conditions..not to mention making victory is mine recharge in 7-8seconds, giving you plenty of energy to ...well spam spam

Anyway please keep the impovements coming they are much appreciated

VGJustice · Dec 03, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Ok, Berry, I take back what I said. I guess I didn't understand how your build worked. No worries, sounds like you've got your bases covered. I guess at this point, I'd run it through some PvP and see what you get

There's one comment that's been bugging me, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

see now this person [Berry] knows how to make a melee R/W

Can you explain your reasoning for this? Mostly, I just want to make sure you're not one of those people that believes that sword is complete and utter tripe and has no place at all in PvP when Axe is around. I've met a lot of people that believe this, so I'm just asking. Why do you like Berry's build so much? You didn't give a reason.

xcutioner · Dec 05, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I'm taking off my "Rangers Rule!!" cap and putting on my Warrior and/or my Monk hat.

Someone commented that R/W can do things that W/R cannot.
What is that exactly? Do less damage perhaps?

I'm not going to say you can't bring R/W in pvp, of course you can. It's just not a very good build. I want to say R/W made more sense to the metagame due to the nature renewals that were constantly in play. It made sense to bring a R/W since rangers can operate quite effectively, even under serious energy denial/cost, depending on how high the expertise is. These days a full out spirit team is a thing of the past, and R/W melee effectiveness along with it.

The only R/W that makes sense to me is the hammer builds I see running around every few teams or so. As a monk if i see a R/W using a sword on me, I know I have nothing to worry about.

Firstly swords are not the greatest damage dealers in the game, axes and hammers are more consistently a winner in damage against my monk. The only chance a sword has against me is if I forget he's there, and I don't cast any heals. They can't spike me, like a decent 16 axe war with eviscerate/x strike, the spike just doesn't work with the ranger's lower weapon attribute.

The reliance of sustained dmg, due to energy efficiency, is the only thing going for the R/W that uses non-marks based builds.

I do think that R/W have a wonderful spot waiting for them in PVE(preferably axes

), but PVP-wise, it's just not a very good combination.

PS: Triple Stance Tanks in PVP are detrimental to their team. Always saved to be killed last and easily ignored due to poor damage.

PPS: Why on earth would u give up Ranger bow interrupts to be swinging a melee weapon?
Doesn't play well with others comes to mind.

Enigmatics · Dec 06, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

But one thing is for damn certain, no R/W can beat my W/N in a point blank fight... I've tested it and the armor level and strength factor is just too powerful for a melee ranger to deal with... Warriors always hit harder than rangers in melee...

But that's like saying, No W/N can beat my Me/N. I'll spike you to death before you can run to me.

We use R/W for their versatility in battle; so far, we've found a delicate number of skills that make them worth playing. If your W/N is more or less geared towards a melee fighter, (plague touch, rigor mortis, weaken armor, etc... though, those skills work on casters too), you cannot expect to be broader in your uses. There is also the fact that the aforementioned skills have casting time and only affect single targets, while R/W only need Apply poison and can begin attacking immediately. This is what most people notice: mobility, and no wearisome spell maintinence->consequent energy management.

My suggestion: if you're doing arenas, you really, really shouldn't be running a specific support build. This is very dangerous, and more often than not, you'll find yourself supporting a few nonexistant warriors.

PS: As for R/W versus W*, Rangers have TF, and since W/R are obsolete, the Warrior will have to use Frenzy/Flurry, or Battle Rage. That's my consolation for running an axe Ranger.

BBoy_Manchild · Dec 11, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

Ok, Berry, I take back what I said. I guess I didn't understand how your build worked. No worries, sounds like you've got your bases covered. I guess at this point, I'd run it through some PvP and see what you get

There's one comment that's been bugging me, though.

Can you explain your reasoning for this? Mostly, I just want to make sure you're not one of those people that believes that sword is complete and utter tripe and has no place at all in PvP when Axe is around. I've met a lot of people that believe this, so I'm just asking. Why do you like Berry's build so much? You didn't give a reason.

berry's build is good for pve, and for pvp i use nothing but hammer

SaintGreg · Dec 13, 2005, 09:09 AM // 09:09

I once tried a R/W sword warrior with:

Seeking blade
wild blow
pure strike
charge

charge is for a non-stance speed boost, and its always good to have charge on your team. It is fun to play, especially when the monk you are fighting uses a guardian and thinks he's big and bad. But the damage really is pitiful. Losing strength and 4 levels of swordsmanship really hurts. The attacks don't recharge fast enough - to realize the full potential you would need flourish, and then you can't catch up to them enough to actually hit them.

BTW berry I like that build, its interesting.

Kurow · Dec 13, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

R/W can definately do things that W/R cant. Their energy consumption is much less than W/R which allows them to use more skills. Sure rangers may not do as much damage per hit, but they have many things on their side.

And if you want to use a sword, you should go for a build that relies on poison/bleeding and evasion. I used to use this one and it wrecked most any warriors i met.

Swordsmanship- 12
Tactics- 10
Wilderness survival- 8
Expertiese- As high as you can get it (i dont recall)

Apply Poison
Seeking Blade
Sever Artery
Gash
Tiger's Fury
Gladiator's Defense [E]
Shield Stance / or one of those other tactics evasions, heck you could even go for WS if you wanted
Troll Unguent

He could hold his own against any warrior that wasnt made to take down stance tanks. The gladiators defence would completely wreck them, or make them stop attacking you.

Personally for damage i think that you should go for hammer. I use a hammer R/W Sometimes and i find it to be extermely effective, even against warriors. Its basicly got tiger's fury, irresistable blow, a few other hammer techs of choice, apply poison, some evasion, ideally you want expertiese, and troll unguent. Sounds a little simple, but I find myself doing a good 90(~40/50 on warriors) damage on hits with irresistable blow, which only takes 4 seconds to recharge, and the energy cost is negligable. This build doesnt deal with warriors as well as the other, but it can hold its own and sure as hell deal out damage quickly.

pagansaint · Dec 13, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Yeah I'm a big fan of an anti-anti-iway Hammer R/W

Serpent's Quickness
Irresistable Blow
Backbreaker{E}
Mighty Blow
Hammer Bash
Crushing Blow/I Will Avenge You!
Sprint/Troll's Unguent
Res Signet/Warrior's Cunning

Spam Irresistable Blow every other swing and your target(preferably a protection monk) is on his butt the whole time they have aegis/guardian/stances up. If no Res Signet, swapping to Warrior's Cunning to unleash your adrenaline combo then right back to Serpent's Quickness to keep the pressure up with Irresistable.

Works well with an IWAY team or a Trapper team.

A couple changes for a ViM Trapper team could be swapping Backbreaker for Victory is Mine! and Counter Blow for Crushing Blow. Victory is Mine! for the near limitless health and energy, Counter Blow knocks down all the wanders/rangers/warriors trying to interrupt your Trappers.

sleazeh · Dec 13, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Actually, our guild has been experimenting with a build we call a "Thumper".

R/W
16 Beast, 10 Hammer, Rest in Expertise

Charm Animal
Ferocious Strike (E)
Maiming Strike
Disrupting Lunge
Tiger's Fury
Res Sig
2 Hammer Skills you like that work well together (chaining weakness w/ knockdown, etc)

Ferocious does around 60 (?) damage I believe at 16 beast, occurs concurrently with your IAS hammer attacks. You'd be surprised at the amount of damage this build can put out, I was too when I first tried it. I'm not a huge believer in pets, but....

Should go without saying, but it's NOT designed for PvE...

BBoy_Manchild · Dec 15, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleazeh

Actually, our guild has been experimenting with a build we call a "Thumper".

R/W
16 Beast, 10 Hammer, Rest in Expertise

Charm Animal
Ferocious Strike (E)
Maiming Strike
Disrupting Lunge
Tiger's Fury
Res Sig
2 Hammer Skills you like that work well together (chaining weakness w/ knockdown, etc)

Ferocious does around 60 (?) damage I believe at 16 beast, occurs concurrently with your IAS hammer attacks. You'd be surprised at the amount of damage this build can put out, I was too when I first tried it. I'm not a huge believer in pets, but....

Should go without saying, but it's NOT designed for PvE...

no but I AM a big believer in beast master builds, the ranger i used for pve i changed to warrior secondary for hammer and mesmer for domination
both have similar builds
hammer: 16 bm 12 hammer 4 expertise
hammer bash
irresistable blow
tigers fury (lasts 11 seconds)
ferocious strike
call of haste
comfort animal
charm animal
res sig

domination: 16 bm 11 dom rest expertise
blackout (this is what this build is centered around)
shatter enchantment
shatter hex (i can spam these from the energy i get from ferocious)
ferocious strike
call of haste
comfort animal
charm animal
res sig
these are the 2 BMs i use for pvp and they pwn, except for when i dont have a monk teammate, then i have to play it safe and not pwn as much

Laurelin Goldtree · Dec 15, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

As a ranger/warrior using a sword the following skills work well with your concept.

Pure Strike
Seeking Blade
Savage Slash
Hamstring
Thrill of Victory
Distracting Blow
Wild Blow

Ranger? Where's the Ranger? I see no "ranger" in these skills.

VGJustice · Dec 15, 2005, 02:38 AM // 02:38

That's a Ranger playing to the Secondary. The Ranger you don't see is the 13~ Expertise, making those skills spamable.