Curse

sun is in us · Dec 08, 2005, 10:28 PM // 22:28

(Edit) I posted this in a Monk forum on another site so that is the context, but I realized this would be a good forum to get an answer as well...

-Ahh our Evil Twin/Bad Weather Friend, the Necromancer. And our comrade the Ranger. As you are probably aware, the two great tastes have come together in the Ranger/Necro FOTM Touch Build.

So. How can we defeat this build? And I don't want to out heal their damage, I want to shut them down.

I'm not in game in the moment so I can't test/see the latest descriptions of the spells/skills available from the source but a few ideas/questions are bugging me.

Of course we have the standard "physical" counters like, crippling them, imagined burden and run (similar to Illusionary Weaponry)....but I want to find a way to be "Untouchable". Scourge Sacrifice is just too iffy....and I have been attacked through Mist Form.....(even though it says no damage from "attacks").

For instance, would SOJ work?

Shield of Judgement Elite Skill
For 8-20 seconds, anyone striking target ally with an attack is knocked down and suffers 5-50 damage.

Or Deadly Riposte?

Deadly Riposte
For 8 seconds, while you have a sword equipped, you block the next attack against you and your attacker takes 5-50 damage and begins bleeding for 3-25 seconds.

Now Shield Bash specifically says melee attack...so that is why the description above seems more promising.

Anyone with any ideas/stories about how to counter?

Thanks.

Ps. Just remembered Spirit Shackles......hmmm what else?

DeanBB · Dec 08, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

The "touch attacks" are not attacks and are actually more like zero-range spells, so stances, being blind, etc will not work on them. Yet they are skills rather than spells so things that block spells ("Spell Breaker") shouldn't work either.

I guess that leaves skill interrupts like Cry of Frustration.

I don't think Spirit Shackles will trigger as they are not attacking.

the drizzle · Dec 08, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Most touches aren't attack skills, they're just skills. So, Riposte would not work against this, nor would shield of judgement. Please, correct me if I'm wrong anyone. I guess you could interrupt the skills or something.

^ I'm a slow typer.

imaginary friend · Dec 08, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

spellbreaker.

Praetor · Dec 09, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Diversion ftw

Actually, if you know you're going up to a touch team, there's a little trick/exploit where you purposefully hit them with distracting shot WHILE they're running up towards you. Why? Because if they're dumb enough, they're running towards you BECAUSE they targeted you with a touch-skill. Interupts interrupt whatever skill is highest on queue, or being immediately used. Even though you don't see it, you can interrupt before it goes off (I don't say "before it casts" because we're referring to interupting a skill, rather than specifically a spell).

Of course, this won't work on a smart team that manually walks up to you, THEN clicks a touch-skill.

Former Ruling · Dec 09, 2005, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by imaginary friend

spellbreaker.

Given that they are just "Skills" not "Spells" - Spell breaker shouldn't work.

Interuption is going to be the way that fits in better.

Most other types of things refer to "spells", "attacks", etc.

audioaxes · Dec 09, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

have someone cripple them as you run around

Turbo Wombat · Dec 09, 2005, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Cripple and Diversion are probably your best bets. Blackout could also be a nusance if your mes doesn't have anything else to do.

Dmitri3 · Dec 09, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Scourge Sacrifice forces some necros (or ranger/necros) to think before doing any more sacrifices.

Stalker Haras · Dec 09, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

use a trapping ranger as for safe precaution. Have them set traps, like spike trap knocking them over when they get in distance.

sun is in us · Dec 09, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Given that they are just "Skills" not "Spells" - Spell breaker shouldn't work.

Interuption is going to be the way that fits in better.

Most other types of things refer to "spells", "attacks", etc.

Truth is:

I'm preparing for a 1v1 confrontration. (real word?).

So. It is a W/* build that I am trying to figure out.

If you could kill anybody with a W/* .

What would you do?

Ps. I have an idea that I am using tonight. Buit, I am only one person......and to admit....I already have realized that Diversion is my first best hope.....

Counters?....after all...diversion (since the nerf) is now 3 Seconds to cast.

Former Ruling · Dec 09, 2005, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Crippling isnt too effective..If you try to cripple shot me, my whirling or dodge or w/e will most likely laugh at you, and if you cripple me as a warrior - I'll Plague it over to you.

Mesmers are the real way.

LightningHell · Dec 09, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

^^
He's talking about, specificially, the R/N Touch build here...

Ez Cheez · Dec 10, 2005, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Best counter? Crippling anguish, Conjure Phantasm, Pantom Pain. If the ranger cant touch anyone with vampiric touch, they have no self healing. The degen will quickly take him out. GG touch ranger.

Also...any monk can out-heal a touch ranger. They really dont have that much dps...its just that you cant block it and armor doesnt matter. Touch rangers are pretty much a more reliable IW build.

H2SO4 · Dec 11, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

My build, used welll before FOTM is with my N/Me

Vamparic Gaze
Vamparic Touch
Soul Feast (or is that dark* feast ??)
Barbed Signet
Signet of Agony
Plague Touch
Offering of Blood
Res Sig or sometihng else if your are a nonce.

Take target (or the suicidal ramo warrior charging you) gaze him form a distance and then start feeling him up !! Signet of agony & plague touch does a nice 50-ish damagee & bleeding, soul* feast is good for keeping alive if you are surrounded and barbed signet will get >>some<< {you only gain a bout 16 health but hey its free !} life up so you can sacrifice for offering of blood if you are running low.
1v1 with a warrior I can win(provided that the teams monks were otherwise engaged) Im no great player though but jsut I thought Id mention what I do.

Of course for counters... if I cant touch you theres not really a lot I can do now is there..... >imagined burden cough<

velgar · Dec 11, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Spiteful spirit also trigger on the use of any skill/attack, so it could be a possible counter.

Taurus · Dec 11, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

KD W/? or Esviscerate + Axe rake W/R ( both with wild blow of course ) not only disables em but kills em while disabling. I didnt even knew bout these R/N fotm grps... so Thats why I've been pwning stupid R/N touch builds in CA so much with my hammer warr.

Cirian · Dec 16, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

KD Warrior? Those weren't touch rangers then

Blind and 33% speed leaves warrior flailing at thin air, and touch strikes bypass every warrior defence. Even a Wild Blow warrior is going to get toasted by a good R/N sooner rather than later.

Nope, lets look at illusion mesmers with heavy degens and move speed redux hexes. IW and Blackout for the close up option. Energy denial is another route. Diversion? Only chimps fall for that and some R/N's have Distracing Shot, Power Leak / Spike only work against spells, so domination isn't looking too good here apart from Blackout and Cry of Frustration. An Illusion / Inspiration split I'd say would be best for this, draining the R/N's energy from a distance and using it to fuel slows and degens. A slow, painfull death...

jibikao · Dec 16, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Interruption ranger is a counter but most Touchy rangers have defensive stances. It is one of the more effective way against touchy ranger.

The other effective one is cripple. Trappers also seem to annoy the hell of touch rangers.

Blackout is alright. I can interrupt it 50% of the time and besides, the one that blackouts can't use skills either.

Diversion is good but 3s casting time is too easy to get interrupted. I know I have no problem with it.

I am saying this because I am a touchy ranger with pet to disrupt. lol My favorite faction point gaining build.

Lambentviper · Dec 16, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

traps. if you can get off flame trap, spike trap (for the knockdown) barbed trap, then dust trap, you can interupt them AND stick some nasty conditions on them.

And no one has mentioned choking gas. Would this work?