Curse

ComMan · Jul 24, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Start with your R/Me

Equip him or her with any old sword/axe and an Illusion requirement off-hand

The stats that I'm currently running (which are a modded version of my "real" build's stats)

11 Illusion
10 Expertise (+ 1 from mask and + 2 from a Major Rune, 13 total)
10 Beast Master (+1 from a Minor Rune)

Illusionary Weaponry {e}
Conjure Phantasm
Tiger's Fury

Call of Haste
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Disrupting Lunge or Feral Lunge
Rez Signent

The top 3 are (obviously) what the setup is built around (and, for future reference, I don't reccomend building like that). I had to keep my Expertise high to use Tiger's Fury as much as possible, and I had no need for Marksmanship, so I ended up shifting points into Beast Mastery (which I had to use anyway for TF) and using the pet to suppliment my Illusionary Weaponry.

On the one hand, this is the only build I've yet to use or see where a pet actually has a reason to be there (I can't carry a bow with Illusionary Weaponry). On the other, any enchantment removal effs this build, and the total lack of any defensive skills in those 3 attributes doesn't work out well.

Granted, I could use the Expertise stances for defense (since I'm using that line anyway), but I would have to drop either Call of Haste or my pet attack, since those are the only two non-essential skills.

Overall, my track record in the Random arena is pretty poor. I just felt like posting the build because I think it's interesting.

Morganas · Jul 24, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

That looks good, but you should either be packing a cover enchant like channeling or use arcane echo to recast IW, otherwise you won't be able to keep IW on you. Unfortunately, I can't see that you can really get rid of any of your skills, they all seem sorta indispensible. Not enough skill slots is the reason beast mastery is so rare IMO.

Scaphism · Jul 24, 2005, 08:53 AM // 08:53

I understand that this is a build posted for fun mainly, so I'll be nice in my critique.

If you're running a pet (without any means of healing or defending your pet) you're preparing to black your skills out for a while.
On top of that you're running Tiger's Fury, which will black your other skills out (including pet attacks I believe).

My question (and my point): if you're aiming to black your own skills out, why aren't you running a blackout mesmer?
A few things:
-Blackout is a skill, not a spell, and therefore its cost is reduced by expertise
-Blackout lets you retain some usefulness even if your enchantment is stipped

-IW damage, even with Tiger's Fury up, isn't something to go nuts over. It's solid but unspectacular damage- but the days of running IW without fear of enchantment removal are long gone. You can't pair it with Hundred Blades anymore either, so your ability to spike damage is gone.

On top of that, you have no snare, and no speed buff- your target can stop the majority of your damage just by running.

As cute as it is to run side by side with your pet, I don't see it as a valuable addition to your build. Disrupting Lunge is going to be a wasted slot most of the time- between blacking yourself out with Tiger's Fury and your pet dying (and all skills being disabled for 8s when he dies and and another 8s when you revive him), you just can't get that key interrupt in when you really need it.

So if you're planning on disabling most of your skills while Tiger's Fury runs anyways, I'd recommend running blackout- it actually lets you shut down a target while you continue to do damage. Pack a mesmer interrupt along with it.

There are some really good mesmer stances as well.
Hex Breaker is amazing in Arena, as is Mantra of Persistance combined with Conjure Phantasm.

Or you could go the other route and make a more traditional Me/W IW build with Flurry, Spring, and grab something like Distracting Blow to use at the moment Blackout wears off- then you can also use mesmer runes to up your illusion magic (and damage).

Not as "flavorful" as running an IW+Pet build, but one I'd give a better chance at winning arena fights.

Tellani Artini · Jul 24, 2005, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Seems to me like IW would kind of suck without a snare/speed boost used alongside it. I know whenever a mesmer is hacking on me I just run, and usually either I get away with no damage or they put on imagined burden and chop away.

EDIT - o hey, just read the same thing in Scaphism's.

Mango Midget · Jul 24, 2005, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

I know whenever a mesmer is hacking on me I just run or they put on imagined burden and chop away.

Maybe you were fighting me in the arena.

ComMan · Jul 24, 2005, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I'm well aware of the stupidity of not running a snare (my regular build is never without Pin Down), but you see, I don't actually HAVE that mesmer offhand. None of my friends play Mesmers and none of my alts are mesmers, so I've never had a reason to hang onto one. With only 31 energy I can't afford to cast 3 Mesmer spells in a row.

I also don't have the Pet cripple, since the only pet attacks I have (except Disrupting Lunge) are quest rewards, and that wasn't among them.

Except for pets being stupid (charing in because you shot one Poison Arrow from your longbow), I've never seen a pet die before it's owner. There's just no real reason to spend the time and effort killing them as opposed to the player.

Blackout is a Domination skill. If I could run another attribute line I'd run Inspiration or Wilderness Survival for the self-healing.

Sure, my skills are blacked out half the time by Tiger's Fury, but how often do I need to use them? Illusionary Weaponry once every 40 seconds, Conjure Phantasm once every 15 or so seconds (if I actually have the mana to spare), Call of Haste once every 30 seconds. Except for the Pet Attack everything in that build is a pretty long skill.

Edit: tested with Imagined Burden in Call of Haste's place (using a PvP character so I could get a Jewled Chakram). It didn't go well...

Tuna · Jul 24, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Looks like it could be interesting. Feral lunge (assuming thats the cripple pet attack) is going to be quite important as most people run when they are getting pounded by IW.

As far as elites go, ferocious strike is pretty decent. If you're going pet its quite viable to take it as an elite as use the energy to 'spam' a high energy spell. If they ever improve pet AI these builds might actually be viable

BrokenSymmetry · Jul 24, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Looks like it could be interesting. Feral lunge (assuming thats the cripple pet attack) is going to be quite important as most people run when they are getting pounded by IW.

As far as elites go, ferocious strike is pretty decent. If you're going pet its quite viable to take it as an elite as use the energy to 'spam' a high energy spell. If they ever improve pet AI these builds might actually be viable

Maiming Strike causes crippling on a moving target. Feral Lunge causes bleeding on an attacking target.

And yes, Ferocious Strike is ideal for spells from the second profession of a ranger. Because the energy-cost of spells is not effected by Expertise, most Rangers don't use their second profession. But with Ferocious Strike you will have enough energy for that. I use it on my R/N for some Curses spells that soften the target up for my pet (Weaken Armor, Barbs, Enfeeble, Faintheartedness, etc.). This also has the advantage that you can be more like a "real" beast master (meaning with a staff from your second professions, instead of a bow).

ComMan · Jul 24, 2005, 11:34 PM // 23:34

If I weren't using a Mesmer ELITE that required me to not equip a bow then I wouldn't be using a pet anyway, so Ferocious Strike is out of the question (although I do have it capped).

Marksman's Wager is also better if you want to spam high-energy spells with a Ranger. However, since neither can be used with Oath Shot, you can't really spam the high-cost skills of most professions while using them.

Scaphism · Jul 25, 2005, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

Sure, my skills are blacked out half the time by Tiger's Fury, but how often do I need to use them? Illusionary Weaponry once every 40 seconds, Conjure Phantasm once every 15 or so seconds (if I actually have the mana to spare), Call of Haste once every 30 seconds. Except for the Pet Attack everything in that build is a pretty long skill.

I assume when you say your skills are long, you mean they have long durations.
If that's the case, why are you having energy issues at all? That's what you hinted at when you said you don't always have the mana to spare for Conjure Phantasm.
My guess is that you're spending most of your energy on Tiger's Fury- your first problem is that you're using a Major Expertise instead of a Superior Expertise. If you haven't unlocked it yet, go do that now. NOW.
Done yet? Good. Now you can get your expertise to 14 and your 10 energy skills (Tiger's Fury most importantly) will cost 4 energy instead of 5.

Otherwise, if you're having energy problems with the build AND you're not utilizing Expertise like you should, why are you even playing a ranger to begin with.

Seriously though, what is the pet there for? An extra 10DPS under ideal conditions? If that's what you want, switch to mesmer and strap on a superior illusion rune. You'll be doing more damage and you wont have to waste 2 skill slots on an unreliable damage source that also blacks your skills out. The easiest way to kill a pet? Fire one DOT attack at it and run away briefly til it gives up chasing you, then falls over and dies.

Switching to mesmer will also give you an extra pip of energy to use, and allow you to spread your attributes out more using runes. Illusion magic already has snares, so why are you debating using 4 slots to get one snare from your pet? (Charm+Comfort+Disrupt+Maim) Stop half-assing as ranger and use the Mesmer tools you already have. If you want interrupts, mesmers have plenty of those. If you want snares, illusion has it in spades.

The only reason I can think of to be a ranger primary for this character is to milk expertise (using it with something like Blackout) or for the runes, and you're not doing either.
Decide what you want to do with this character- you want damage while shutting someone down? Pack IW and Blackout. You want damage with the option to interrupt? Mesmer has that too.

If you really want a pet, then pack it on, but don't half ass it.
Whatever you do though, don't try splashing into wilderness survival for self healing- the last thing you want to do is spend 3 seconds casting troll unguent when you should be swinging with IW or spreading Conjure Phantasm around. Your character is fragile and will get a lot more mileage out of shutting down the other side and outdamaging them, rather than trying to outlast them with Troll Unguent.

ComMan · Jul 25, 2005, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Unlocking a rune of superior expertise is a huge pain, just like every other rune. I should buy one though, since runes of major vigor finally dropped to an affordable price.

It's not a very good build, you're right on all counts there. I just thought it was interesting. I think it's fun to mess with different skills as I get them, but apparently that's just a personal preference.

As for the energy thing: this was actually done with my PvE character. I had just capped Illusionary Weaponry and was playing around with Illusion Magic to create that build. However, I never held on to Mesmer offhands because I don't have a PvE mesmer and none of my friends play mesmers, so I had no reason to ever keep them.