Curse

Genos · Jul 11, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

as it says this an idea for a Mes/Ele build. note that this is in the Theroycraft stages, so any advice (esp. from more experienced mesmers and eles than me) would be appreciated. so here we go...

Ice Thief - Mes/Ele

11 Water magic (push to 12 possibly?)
10 Fast casting
10 Inspiration

in terms of runes, possibly boost inspiration and fast casting to at least 12 each.. or decrease fast casting to increase water magic and use a rune to bring it back up to 10

Skills

Ice Spikes - Good damage, relatively cheap to cast, plus AoE

Ice Spear - Single target damage - nothing more, nothing less

Shard Storm - as above, although its snaring is useful

Armour of Mist - help avoid becoming a squishy target, and allows for easy manuvering around the battlefield

Ether Lord - for when I’m running really low on energy - bang, large amounts of regen, while my opponent suffers degen

Energy Tap - to be combed with Ether lord to allow for quick recovery form emass energy loss

Power Drain - Interrupt to help with energy regain

the elite is what I’m really not sure on - as you can see the whole idea is to drain casters of energy while beating on them with water magic - armour of mist is there to allow you to "manoeuvre" as it were while helping to avoid be coming a squishy target.

possible ideas for Elite...

Mind Freeze {Elite} - Hex Spell
Target foe suffers 10-34 damage. If you have more energy than target foe, that foe suffers an additional 10-34 damage and moves 50% slower for 2-5 seconds. This spell causes exhaustion.

not to sure on this one, but it could be nice

Mantra of Recovery {Elite} - Stance
For 5-17 seconds, spells you cast recharge 50% faster.

self explanatory as to why I would take it - faster recharge = more damage and energy stealing

Glyph of Energy {Elite} - Glyph
Your next spell costs 20 less Energy to cast and does not cause exhaustion

fairly obvious - cheap casting of spells. maybe if taking this replace Ice spikes with Deep Freeze

Armour - Enchanters in all likelihood. in terms of weaponry probably a good +to energy with improve casting speeds on water magic, and improve recharge speeds Water wand and some sort of good +energy Foci

any suggestions in terms of better skills, weaponry and the like would be highly appreciated.

(edited for spelling)

Photeus · Jul 11, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I have some suggestions.

I would not use Ether Lord or Mind Freeze with this build. Why? First off, Ether lord takes 5 energy and requires you to be out of energy to use. Yes, it puts a drain on someone else at the same time, but even at highest level of inspire, you'll recharge a maximum of 18 mana (by my figures) with this skill. And since it has 5 mana cost and nukes your pool, the least you'll spend on it will be about 7 (5 for the cost, about 2 when it casts due to the mana you recharge and it nuking your pool) and you'll be at 0. If you are stealing enough mana, you won't likely hit 0 enough to bother. With Mantra of Recovery, Energy Tap will come back fairly quickly. If you are worried about keeping mana up while draining someone else, look into the elite Energy Drain, that and Tap together will net you about 31 mana in about 3 seconds for 10 energy.

Ok, in retrospect, maybe Ether Lord will work well, especially in pvp, to injure someone's mana, and since you have fast casting, you might be able to use it at just 5 cost. But the few times I used it, I was very disappointed with it's effects, I'm just not a fan.

Now, I don't know if you're using this for PvP or not, but if you are using this for PvP, I suggest Spirit Shakles or Spirit of Failure. With your water spells, you can keep hexes pretty well stacked on someone easily. Also, these spells both have very different effects, depending on need. Spirit Shackles is great for pvp...it can pretty much ruin a warrior or ranger's mana pool without much further work from yourself. Even spellcasters won't realize what's going on when they normally attack. Spirit of Failure is much better for PvE, but can also be effective counter to warriors and rangers, but doesn't drain their pools, just gives you 1-4 energy when they miss. Good to keep a constant energy supply, but not so great to keep down an opponent's abilities.

Another elite to consider is the ever popular Water Trident. Very good ability. But it's not that great against casters, since they don't move enough to knock down efficiently. Now, against close attackers, you can run from any single target easily, or protect an ally being chased.

The only thing I don't like about Ice Spear, is that it's short distance, and only a little more powerful than flare. You could try just a cold damage wand and conjure frost, longer range and one cost. And since you don't have other enchants in this build, it could be fine. But I understand if you don't like to rely on enchants, I typically get them removed too much to keep around long.

Ok, that's a huge ammount to say, but there's a lot to take into account. Good luck.

Since Water spells have somewhat lengthy recharges at times, mantra of recovery does not sound like a bad idea, especially with mana stealing abilities.

JoDiamonds · Jul 11, 2005, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Photeus has a lot of good ideas; I mostly want to echo agreement.

In experience, it turns out that Ether Lord is pretty lousy, for PvE or PvP. And the first thing I thought of when reading the build was, "Where's Water Trident?" Might even be a good replacement for Ice Spear.

Generally, I'd agree that you should keep something for fighters in there too, but snares are generally good vs. warriors. And definitely keep Mist Form; good call on that. Just keep in mind that it has a two second cast time, longer than any other speed booster (especially the 0-time stances).

Zeru · Jul 11, 2005, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Ether lord is lousy. Ice spear is just awful. I don't think armor of mist is worth it either.

You need water attunement with that many water spells.

You don't really seem to have a set purpose. Energy tap really isn't needed. P.Drain works I guess but is pretty situational. Going ele rather than mesmer would be better so you could take a superior water rune.

For elite, Water trident or ward against harm are both solid picks. Mind freeze is just ugly.

Genos · Jul 11, 2005, 08:31 AM // 08:31

True on the casting time of mist fomr - but thats what fast casting is for. the purpose of this build? energy leech really, while providing decent-heavy damage from Water magic.. hmm maybe drop Ice Spear for Conjour Frost.... lots to think about

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 11, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Actually, Conjure Frost on a Water Wand/Staff isnt' horrible, but it's not a form of efficiency people would salute either. Conjure was truely meant for melee/non-magical weapons. I mean, come on, look at their skill icons.

If you're going to do damage, I wouldn't go water. Going water for that massive snaring it is capable of isn't a bad idea however. Water Hex beats cripple for a snare any day.

You should place more emphasis on stealing energy for half your skills and then snaring for your other half. Why move faster if your enemies move slower?

So, from what I'd use with your setup.

10+2 Inspiration
10+1 Fast Casting
11 Water Magic

I'd rename it Ice Entrapment vs. Ice thief since you don't use Arcane Thievery

Energy Tap
Energy Drain {E}
Power Drain
Arcane Echo
Ice Spikes
Shard Storm
Frozen Burst
Water Attunement

Ice Spikes, Shard Storm, and Frozen Burst, if chained correctly can keep an enemy away from you and your team indefinitely I think. Mind Freeze resembles a crappy elite. 68 dmg if the enemy has less energy than you and they're slowed for 5 seconds? Exhaustion to boot. Frozen Burst, 10s. slowdown, easily better and at 60 dmg, it's worth 2x the snare. Just Frozen Burst when the enemy gets near melee range. They dont' have to be actually swinging at you for the dmg to be dealt.

Snare the non magic types while draining magic user's energy. Not bad.

edit*

Actually, you could ditch Shard Storm for Deep Freeze so you'll deal more damage and just slow the enemy down that much longer. Er, enemies...