Curse

Enigmatics · Jul 04, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

5 energy, plus 5 damage. Check your sources, they're wrong. Ignite has somewhat of an AOE effect, and it's boost isn't able to be blocked or evaded, while kindle is easier to spam and does more energy to a single target. There are, I believe, several posts that argue between the use of one or the other.

arnansnow · Jul 04, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Fine it is 5 at full wilderness, but is 5 more damage + 5 less mana cost better than splash?

Enigmatics · Jul 04, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Since this seems to be a spike build, the answer is evidently yes.

pearhk · Jul 04, 2005, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Punishing Shot is a glorified Savage Shot. Or a glorified Power Shot. Either way, a glorified version of a mediocre skill is not good, and certainly not worth an elite slot.

Peace,
-CxE

dun kiddling,
Punish Shot has a far shorter cooldown (6 sec), that means u can interupt very often

by ur logic, (axe skill) evisicrate is useless ?
it is just a glorifed Dismember ? or just a glorified Excutioner Strike ?

ICURADik · Jul 04, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

I've recently semi changed my views on pets for a ranger. Many elites for Rangers are just hyped versions of normal skills. The exceptions being Greater Conflag, Barrage, Oath Shot, and Ferocious Strike, (Quick Shot is also an above par skill, and I intend to do some more testing using a Horn Bow for the supposed 10% armor penetration).

Barrage is not the most useful skill in HoH or random arena anymore.. most teams already spread out a good bit to prevent AoE's from killing them. You would at most hit 2 in a random arena.

Greater Conflag is the center of most spirit spam builds, so if your planning on using it then your elite is already taken. Or you borrowing it from a teamate with Arcane Mimicry to maintain space for another elite.

This leaves Oath Shot and Ferocious Strike as top choices in random arena builds. Oath Shot has some very nice comboing synergy with Lightning Reflexes for a nearly constant 33% speed/75% evasion in one skill.

Meanwhile Ferocious Strike is a largely overlooked very powerful ability. +25 damage, and 9 energy at the cost of 5(2) energy is probably one of the most useful elites in the game. Comboing this with Zephyr can help shut down the other teams energy usage, while helping you regenerate by now having an extra 9 energy every 4 seconds. The equivalent of 7 extra pips of energy regen. I'm sure if there was an elite that simply gave you 7 pips of energy regen it would be one of the most popular in the game. But this is even better, it's not an enchantment, and it also adds 7 dps.

In my opinion the key to making a truly elite random arena Ranger is to become the most efficient character possible. With Quickening Zephyr running your forcing everyone else to be as efficient as you. This helps Warriors and Rangers shine, as their damage is largely dependant on non heavy energy cost skills. Using those Zealous strings with speed buffs and dual shots gives you an edge on the battlefield. If your opponets have no energy, or not enough to kill you, then they are at your mercy.

A semi-pet build focusing on Ferocious Strike, Quickening Zephyr, and possibly a Fertle Season to make sure you have enough life to survive the opening volleys could go a long way in Arenas. Add in the usual Debilitating, Tiger's Fury, Dual Shot, and Kindle and you are a force to be reckoned with. Simply wearing away at you opponets until the 20-30 second mark when they have nothing left, while you haven't really missed a beat.

Enigmatics · Jul 04, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearhk

dun kiddling,
Punish Shot has a far shorter cooldown (6 sec), that means u can interupt very often

by ur logic, (axe skill) evisicrate is useless ?
it is just a glorifed Dismember ? or just a glorified Excutioner Strike ?

It's neither, since it combines two excellent skills, and reduces 1 adrenaline strike, and saves 1 skill tab. Punishing shot has the exact same specs of power shot (which isn't as popular as penetrating shot), adding an interrupt. People tend to like you less when you seem to be having an aneurism while typing, so watch the errors.

ICURADik · Jul 04, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearhk

dun kiddling,
Punish Shot has a far shorter cooldown (6 sec), that means u can interupt very often

by ur logic, (axe skill) evisicrate is useless ?
it is just a glorifed Dismember ? or just a glorified Excutioner Strike ?

Savage Shot adds 25 damage. Punishing shot adds 18. They have the same cooldown as far as I know.

ComMan · Jul 04, 2005, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

Savage Shot adds 25 damage. Punishing shot adds 18. They have the same cooldown as far as I know.

No, Savage Shot DEALS 25 damage, Punishing shot ADDS 18 damage. They do have the same cooldown though.

Zyuu · Jul 04, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00

savage is actually 5 seconds isnt it? but yeah it only deals exactly 25 or w/e depending on your marks if it interrupts a spell

Quick shot > punishing in terms of only damage

Quick shot
Penetrating
Tiger's Fury
Kindle arrows
-
-
-
-

is all you need for quick shot build.. also dont bring favorable winds. Other skills to bring would be like... pin down, distracting, debilitating, renewal, frozen soil, res sig, a monk res spell, enchant removal, hex removal, etc----, depending on the team

try 14 expertise, 4 beastmastery, 15 marks, 9 wilderness (sup marks, expertise, vigor, minor wild, beast)

u could try other attribute sets but it wont really make much of a difference

Z

s0m31 · Jul 04, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Just to let you know that quick shot works best with QZ and u can do over 200+ dmg in 3 secs if ur using that kindle arrow and conjure fire build. Just hope you don't get eles in your team ^_^. Also that QZ and dual shot combo is pretty neat.

Beoulve · Jul 04, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

It's not the Ele's im thinking of when I use QZ, They can just use Ether renewal, its the monks.

Enigmatics · Jul 04, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Would serpent's quickness work better then tiger's fury (high level) in terms of spamming quick shot? And would using both be ineffective and hard to upkeep?

ICURADik · Jul 05, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigmatics

Would serpent's quickness work better then tiger's fury (high level) in terms of spamming quick shot? And would using both be ineffective and hard to upkeep?

I think someone else posted in a different thread. Or possibly this one. But Serpent's Quickness won't affect Quick Shot due to rounding. You need that 50% reduction of Quickening Zephyr to make it instant.

Xellos · Jul 05, 2005, 10:10 PM // 22:10

I have a question about Quick Shot, previously when I used it, I already confirmed that the old Quick Shot was basically useless, because of the refire rate limit which causes you to sit there for the remainder of the fire rate limit. The Quick Shot I used back awhile ago had no use besides firing quicker within your firing limit, but does not amount to firing more shots. I see that Quick Shot got a recent change, and I would like to know if it does allow more shots to be fired.

Neo-LD · Jul 05, 2005, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Based on the specs Guru provides, QShot recharges in 3 seconds. Earlier it was siad that QZephyr could reduce QS's cooldown to nothing, letting you let loose a veritable machine-gun. However, QZ reduces the cooldown by half, which is 1.5. Wouldnt that round to 2 seconds?

Xellos · Jul 05, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Based on the specs Guru provides, QShot recharges in 3 seconds. Earlier it was siad that QZephyr could reduce QS's cooldown to nothing, letting you let loose a veritable machine-gun. However, QZ reduces the cooldown by half, which is 1.5. Wouldnt that round to 2 seconds?

Guru specs are outdated. The new Quick Shot is 5/1/1 and does not disable skills I believe. The real question is whether or not it actually increases fire rate, or is it the same in that you just fire off a shot and sit there for the remainder of your fire limit. Absolutely useless if it still retains the latter.

Falconer · Jul 05, 2005, 11:02 PM // 23:02

The only reason quickshot is of any use now is because of that change... before it would disable your skills for 2s after use. Which meant that yeah it upped your fire rate... but stopped you dead cold from chaining attacks.

Quickshot now is now simply a half energy (10 vs. 5)/fast recycle(5 vs. 1) dual shot. (2 attacks in 1.5tims the normal time of 2, vs. 2 attacks at 75% damage in the normal timeframe of 1). So if you're leveraging +damage effects from the preperation, +enchants, +hex debuffs... yeah then it can be a big help, as opposed to single shot damage. Especially if you leverage quick/dual/& tigers together... basically all you've done is boosted your RoF to as high as possible to make the most of your attack buffs, not so much the basic attack itself.

As far as ignite vs. kindle... I'd take either... I tend to lean in favour of ignite, but kindle has it's uses as a shock damage. In tombs in particular... I find the AoE off the ignite is definately more usefull. Personally, I think the only mistake you could make between the two is putting both on your skill bar at the same time.

Xellos · Jul 05, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falconer

The only reason quickshot is of any use now is because of that change... before it would disable your skills for 2s after use. Which meant that yeah it upped your fire rate... but stopped you dead cold from chaining attacks.

Quickshot now is now simply a half energy (10 vs. 5)/fast recycle(5 vs. 1) dual shot. (2 attacks in 1.5tims the normal time of 2, vs. 2 attacks at 75% damage in the normal timeframe of 1). So if you're leveraging +damage effects from the preperation, +enchants, +hex debuffs... yeah then it can be a big help, as opposed to single shot damage. Especially if you leverage quick/dual/& tigers together... basically all you've done is boosted your RoF to as high as possible to make the most of your attack buffs, not so much the basic attack itself.

As far as ignite vs. kindle... I'd take either... I tend to lean in favour of ignite, but kindle has it's uses as a shock damage. In tombs in particular... I find the AoE off the ignite is definately more usefull. Personally, I think the only mistake you could make between the two is putting both on your skill bar at the same time.

Ah, but the real question is, whether or not it pushes out of the fire limit and aftercast.

Before, you could fire off Quick Shot right after you fired a Pen/Dual/Whatever shot, and you'd get one shot right after another like a distracting shot. The problem was, instead of firing again right after QS, you stood there sitting like a moron for the remainder of the 2.0 second or 1.33 second remainder because it was still limited in that fire rate. Making it just upping your speed, but you still get "turbolag" afterwards. In essence, it did not increase the damage.

Whether or not this has changed is the main thing I want to know. Will my ranger sit there on his ass for about over half a second afterwards because of my refire rate limit? Or does Quick Shot become exempt to that rule?

Ensign · Jul 05, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Ensign, I do realize that more arrows per second is a good thing, but will a quick shot ranger really out-damage a punishing shot ranger?

By a landslide. Using a shortbow and just those two skills, the Quick Shot guy will deal between 15% and 18% more damage than the Punishing Shot guy, depending on your critical hit model.

Once you start adding speed and damage buffs, Quick Shot comes out even further ahead. It's just a great, fast damage skill. Punishing Shot is something you use for the interrupt - the damage it adds is trivial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnansnow

Wouldn't dual shot allow you to fire the most arrows?

They're the same speed, really, as Falconer posted above. The big difference is in the cooldown, which changes the overall rate of fire. Making every other shot a Quick Shot increases your total rate of fire by 33%, and brings the extra 33% damage that comes with it.

Of course for the most arrows in a very short timeframe, Dual Shot followed by Quick Shot is the best combo available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearhk

Punish Shot has a far shorter cooldown (6 sec), that means u can interupt very often

I'm confused. Savage Shot has a five second cooldown, while Punishing Shot has a six second cooldown. Which, at best, means you'll be firing off the same number of interrupts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearhk

by ur logic, (axe skill) evisicrate is useless ?

Useless? Hardly, but it also isn't anything to get really excited about. You use it when playing an axe guy because it's solid and there isn't anything that jumps out as a must-run. I certainly wouldn't be running Eviscerate if I had an Axe equivilent of Barrage or Quick Shot available.

The real slam on Punishing Shot was that it's a fair comparison to Savage Shot, and Savage Shot isn't very good. The only time I'd want to run either is if I was just going to blindly spam interrupts at someone and hope to catch them casting something important. For actual, reactive interrupting, Distracting Shot is an order of magnitude better than either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigmatics

Would serpent's quickness work better then tiger's fury (high level) in terms of spamming quick shot?

Due to rounding, Serpent's Quickness has no effect whatsoever on Quick Shot. Given that Tiger's Fury stacks with the skill I think it's no contest. =)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigmatics

And would using both be ineffective and hard to upkeep?

Well they're both stances, meaning you can only use one at once, so the Tiger's Fury + Serpent's Quickness combo is a non-starter just on the mechanics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Whether or not this has changed is the main thing I want to know.

This has changed. Quick Shot + Tiger's Fury = one shot every 1 second (staggered). Quick Shot + Tiger's Fury + Quickening Zephyr = 3 shots every 2 seconds.

Peace,
-CxE

Xellos · Jul 06, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

So Quick Shot + Tigers Fury then Quick Shot + Serpents Quickness right after right? Because I don't think TF and SQ stack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

How about you stop listening to the people showing off their blatant lack of understanding about the game, and do a nice 14/12/11 Quick Shot build without scrubby self-healing?

14 Exp/12 Marks/11 Wild/1 Beast? Because if so, I must be a noob, because the last time I tried to chain attack Quick/Pen/Quick/Dual/Quick and have Tigers Fury, I ended up having no mana within less then a limit, and I had Zealous on. The power was amazing, but my sustainability was a joke. I might as well be an Air Ganker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

In my experience you want Beastmastery at 7 for casual use of Tiger's Fury - that'll give you 8 seconds out of every 10, meaning just one normal speed attack every ten seconds. You're going to end up with those normal shots fairly regularly with a 9 second Fury, making the two negligible - you're only going to see a real jump in effectiveness if you pump all the way to 12 for the 10 second Fury.

So by the math, 8 seconds is the best? I can see the logic in it, by experience I find 6 seconds to be crap for 4 mana, but just wanted to make sure. Actually most of the time I go boost Wilderness with a major, making it jump the 2 for 20. But since this would make kindle at 16 still, I guess it's better, plus you still have that 50 hp.

EDIT: Yeah, the 7 beast mastery is better, Quick Shot is amazing, though a bit mana expensive. I'd probably take Poison Arrow over it unless there was another source of poison though, just because it acts as a penetration vs prot spirits and it causes monks to stress their mana load more. That and the 8 dps bonus over 15 or so seconds is pretty cheap. But Quick Shot is definately king at short term damage even though it's amazingly sustainable compared to the other ranger moves besides Poison Arrow.