Curse

velvetbunny · Jul 07, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Ok, I'm running a fairly pure healing monk build in PvE, using only monk skills. Now I have no problem keeping others alive, but keeping myself alive has been a real issue. As soon as I get attacked, I am basically done for. Can anyone help me figure out the right skill to use to keep myself alive, without taking away to many of my primary healing other skills? I'm not using any skills from my secondary so I can switch that for a particular skill suggestion. Any help is appreciated. Oh and incase it helps, heres what skills i usually run with:

Orison
Word of Healing
Heal Other
Healing Seed
Aegis
Heal Party
Protective Spirit (this sorta helps, but not as much as i need)
Rebirth

Now i realize part of my problem is i only have one real skill to heal myself, Orison. I tried adding in healing touch to heal myself, but that skill seems rather worthless for anything but yourself and doesn't heal all that much. Anyway, I'm fairly new to playing a monk so any help with a pure healing build that can also stay alive is helpful to me.

Ashika · Jul 07, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Allow me to begin with a simple disclaimer; I am, by no means, an expert on this

Now first off, I cannot understand why you would not have healing breeze. I'm only at D. Forge, but thus far I've found this spell to be the bee's knees of monk power. I also equip heal other, healing seeds, heal party, and rebirth. I don't bother with orison, preferring to take Dwayna's Kiss, as most peeps will have a couple hexes on them during battle (to be honest, I'll usually equip neither). I chose necro secondary for the blood ritual and well of blood, thus allowing me to heal both hp and energy

I would suggest taking heal breeze and using a different elite. If you've put plenty of points in protection, Shield of Regeneration would make an excellent addition. Between this spell and breeze, you should have no problem maintaining max health regeneration. With the +40 armor from SoR and Aegis, that should keep you safe enough and give you more time to cast some Orison on yourself.

Also, here's one thing that one might want to consider. Peace and Harmony adds +1 energy regen. At 12 divine, Divine boon adds 61 HP and has -1 energy regen maintainance. With 12 Divine, your spells add 38HP. 12 heal, orison will heal 60. SO, 61 + 60 + 38 = 159 healing for 7 energy and 2 second recharge time. With 12 heal alone (ie divine = 0) Heal other = 151, for 10 energy and 3 second recharge. And you can't cast that on yourself. Just something you might want to consider

velvetbunny · Jul 07, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Actually, i used healing breeze for the longest time and im not sure why i ditched it. Time to give it another shot.

I'm definately going to give peace & harmony + divine boon a try, as that sounds like a good option. I'm not so sure on SoR though, as I'm not to huge on protection with my skills at 16 heal, 10 pro, 10 divine at the moment. Would dropping alot of protection and just going all out heal + divine be a better option, since i do consider myself a healing monk and not protection.

Ashika · Jul 07, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

If you want to do heal + divine, I would believe that would be good. You could also equip signet of devotion for 121 heal (+38 divine bonus). Gives you the benefit of free healing an no worries on most interrupts (I believe). I think I had 16 heal, but dropped it to 10 and picked up a sup heal rune. At 14 heal, breeze = +9 regen. I think 14 heal is all you really need, tho I have not yet explored other options for my monk (since my setup has worked quite nicely thus far). Sup runes have that nasty -75 HP, but you can offset that somewhat with a cheap minor vigor.

Tuna · Jul 07, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by velvetbunny

Orison
Word of Healing
Heal Other
Healing Seed
Aegis
Heal Party
Protective Spirit (this sorta helps, but not as much as i need)
Rebirth

Now i realize part of my problem is i only have one real skill to heal myself, Orison. I tried adding in healing touch to heal myself, but that skill seems rather worthless for anything but yourself and doesn't heal all that much. Anyway, I'm fairly new to playing a monk so any help with a pure healing build that can also stay alive is helpful to me.

Orison, word, and heal other will be your staple skills for PvE, along with some heal party mixed in. Aegis is nice but its quite a energy drain, it might work for you but it never found its way into my skill bar. Prot spirit won't help much since most monsters don't hit for more than ~50 untill underworld. (might be helpfull vs hyrdas etc. though) I'd do a 12 healing, 10 divine, 8 prot. Healing touch can be usefull if you can't keep youself out of the battle, but thats something you learn when you play monk.

Sir Santiago · Jul 07, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Healing Touch is much, much more effective with Divine Boon and high Divine Favor. It can also help to use Vigorous Spirit on yourself.

Ensign · Jul 07, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

I've never really considered energy to be a huge concern in PvE, so I tend to use my secondary for the aformentioned survival. The two best options are Monk/Elementalist for Armor of Earth or Wards, or Monk/Warrior for Sprint or defensive stances. They handle defense in a different manner - Monk/Eles can tank effectively and mitigate their own damage, while Monk/Warrior is easier to shake aggro with.

I consider the core of a PvE healing monk to be Orison, one other cheap, spammable heal (Word or Kiss), Healing Seed, and Rebirth. Orison isn't there because it's a great answer, but because it's a 2nd best answer to just about everything while other skills are recharging. Everything else is flexible.

Breeze is ok. Mostly I use it on secondary targets taking damage, where the over time property of the skill can start to shine. I stick to the more conventional heals on targets taking heavy damage, but spamming Breeze around really doesn't hurt. My main gripe is that it isn't particularly energy efficient.

I almost always run Signet of Devotion as energy management and as an incidental heal. It's pretty good if you don't rely upon it as your main source of healing.

For keeping myself alive, though, I'm a huge fan of Sprint + paying attention. Stay further back in the party, and if you see enemies coming towards you, just hit Sprint and dart back. There are very few enemies that'll stick on a Sprinting target even when there aren't any other party members around to attack - when there are party members around, they switch focus almost immediately. Then you have your Words, and other excellent heal other skills to work on them with. I guess the biggest trick to PvE monkage, as opposed to PvP monkage, is learning to run at the first sign of danger. =)

Peace,
-CxE

Morganas · Jul 07, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20

If you're a monk and you're getting attacked with any regularity in pve, you or your warriors are doing something wrong. Try trailing behind the fight, and don't let your aggro circle touch the monsters until they're already hitting something.

silvertemplar · Jul 07, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

This is what i use to survive, rather unconvensional, but it's basically heal other on yourself:

Heal Area

At rank 11 that is what,
135HP + 55HP [divine boon] + 40HP [divine attrib] .

Now obviously i don't go cast it when the team is hitting the mob, but trust me when i'm getting clobbered chances are 80% that no one else is hitting the mob [not yet anyway]. Warriors tend to be slow to react as they are focusing on a mob closest to them , and generally you either have to stand still and "tank" for a short while or run..in both cases that particular mob isn't getting hit [otherwise it wouldn't keep chasing]. Usually i try to tank until i see firestorm/meteor coming down..then i will resort to orison+divine boon [which is over a 100+ hp heal right there].

Basically, i stand in the back, if a mob breaks through, i stand there casting heal area while the warriors figure out which target is better. Sometimes i move to another mage so at least i heal that person too.

I've found it extremely useful when running/sprinting to stop and cast heal area [mob not in range]. Heal Area actually have a VERY small heal radius.

Quote:

Orison
Word of Healing
Heal Other
Healing Seed
Aegis
Heal Party
Protective Spirit (this sorta helps, but not as much as i need)
Rebirth

Am i the only one using divine boon??? With divine boon you can effectively DOUBLE orison/dwayna's kiss. At rank 11, i heal MYSELF with orison for something like 120HP [55 orison + 55 divine boon + 40 divine healing] . This is why i don't actually use healing breeze either, i rather bring something like "mend conditions" , you cast it , you remove everything on the ally AND divine boon smacks 55HP heal on top of the guy.....
I actually bring both Orison+Dwayna so i can spam it alternately:P

Ashika · Jul 08, 2005, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashika

Also, here's one thing that one might want to consider. Peace and Harmony adds +1 energy regen. At 12 divine, Divine boon adds 61 HP and has -1 energy regen maintainance. With 12 Divine, your spells add 38HP. 12 heal, orison will heal 60. SO, 61 + 60 + 38 = 159 healing for 7 energy and 2 second recharge time. With 12 heal alone (ie divine = 0) Heal other = 151, for 10 energy and 3 second recharge. And you can't cast that on yourself. Just something you might want to consider

Nope, you're not the only one who sees the value of it ;p

Kha · Jul 08, 2005, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I consider the core of a PvE healing monk to be Orison

I used to think this, but I must disagree now. I haven't used Orison since Ascension (which even then might be later than when I ditched it.) It's a nice spell, but a fill-in at best until you have a much more diverse and usable collection of skills.

Reversal of Fortune I find to be 100 times more usuful than Orison in PvE. It allows for a nice combination with Signet of Devotion for a pretty good heal at only the cost of 5 energy. I can't even say how many times this combination has come in handy in PvE, especially Fissure of Woe. This combination has allowed me to tank the onslaught of Shadow Rangers and Warriors.

Of course this skill is only good if you are using Protection too, but considering the original poster has Aegis and Pro Spirit, then it is obvious this spell would fit with the build. If you are pure Healing and Divine Favor, then I suggest using Divine Boon over Orison. To each his own.

velvetbunny · Jul 08, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

Am i the only one using divine boon??? With divine boon you can effectively DOUBLE orison/dwayna's kiss. At rank 11, i heal MYSELF with orison for something like 120HP [55 orison + 55 divine boon + 40 divine healing] . This is why i don't actually use healing breeze either, i rather bring something like "mend conditions" , you cast it , you remove everything on the ally AND divine boon smacks 55HP heal on top of the guy.....
I actually bring both Orison+Dwayna so i can spam it alternately:P

Well i tried Divine Boon for a bit, and i really didn't like it much. Say im in a big fight and im down to 5 energy. I hit Orison and go to 0 energy, then by the time it finishes casting I'm at 2 energy. If i have divine boon, that 2 energy goes back to 0 forcing me to wait 2 extra ticks before i can recast either Orison or Dwayna's Kiss. It seems more useful to me to be able to recast another heal on a different target quicker then to cast one big heal on a single target. But that just comes down to preference i guess unless someone wants to give me a good argument as to why I'm utterly wrong and stupid

.

Oh, and whoever suggested using Dwaynas Kiss and Peace & Harmony, thanks. I rushed my Monk through the missions, since it was my second character, and never really had a natural build develop over time like with my first character. So i totally overlooked the usefulness of alot of skills like those.

Quote:

If you're a monk and you're getting attacked with any regularity in pve, you or your warriors are doing something wrong. Try trailing behind the fight, and don't let your aggro circle touch the monsters until they're already hitting something.

Haha, yeah, your right. When i get a good competent group with some nice tanks, i rarely ever get anything attacking me. I need to be a little more picky on those FoW pick up groups. But I'm not blaming the WAR's entirely, I sometimes catch myself paying to much attention to the health bars and not enough attention to where I'm standing and whats about to whack me.

ElderAtronach · Jul 08, 2005, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Reversal > both Orison and Dwayna's Kiss.

As a healing monk I bring Reversal and Orison and spam them alternately. With divine boon I can heal 2 party members 140+ pts each in a matter of a second.

Aaaaagh · Jul 08, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Try out divine healing, I *think* my divine is at 11, and I heal the entire party for 210 with it. 10 mana..only downfall is its 45 second(?) cast time. Since your pure heal though, you should easily be able to fit this on your bar.

Jasso · Jul 08, 2005, 12:30 PM // 12:30

My suggestion , if you get attacked a lot, is Protective Spirit, Shielding Hands and Breeze. Should be enough to keep you alive while you run for your life and curse all those teammates who let that group on you

Also if your secondary is warrior, sprint helps a lot to run from enemies.

supperman · Jul 08, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by velvetbunny

Well i tried Divine Boon for a bit, and i really didn't like it much. Say im in a big fight and im down to 5 energy. I hit Orison and go to 0 energy, then by the time it finishes casting I'm at 2 energy. If i have divine boon, that 2 energy goes back to 0 forcing me to wait 2 extra ticks before i can recast either Orison or Dwayna's Kiss. It seems more useful to me to be able to recast another heal on a different target quicker then to cast one big heal on a single target. But that just comes down to preference i guess unless someone wants to give me a good argument as to why I'm utterly wrong and stupid

.

Oh, and whoever suggested using Dwaynas Kiss and Peace & Harmony, thanks. I rushed my Monk through the missions, since it was my second character, and never really had a natural build develop over time like with my first character. So i totally overlooked the usefulness of alot of skills like those.

Haha, yeah, your right. When i get a good competent group with some nice tanks, i rarely ever get anything attacking me. I need to be a little more picky on those FoW pick up groups. But I'm not blaming the WAR's entirely, I sometimes catch myself paying to much attention to the health bars and not enough attention to where I'm standing and whats about to whack me.

For a healer, Divine boon can be really helpful for not so prolonged fights. But when you're having a energy crisis, just drop boon and spam word of healing and your choice of 5 energy heals.

Lots of monsters know to smack the soft targets first in PvE as well, so it's usual prudent to stand far away from the tanks at the start of the fight. Most of the healing spells can be cast from afar anyway, so make sure you don't get close enough for the monsters to turn their attention to you. Usually, it's the rangers and eles that don't seem to understand this concept...

Ensign · Jul 08, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

It's a nice spell, but a fill-in at best until you have a much more diverse and usable collection of skills.

Orison never stops being a fill-in. The thing is, it's a very good fill in, never being a great solution but usually being good enough. I slap it onto builds to save space on my bar that would otherwise get devoured by Kiss + Touch or the like. If I didn't always find myself pressed for space when making a PvE monk, I'd drop it, no question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

Reversal of Fortune I find to be 100 times more usuful than Orison in PvE.

I can agree with that if you're running a Monk with exceptional Divine Favor, with or without Boon. The quarter second cast time makes all the difference.

The problem with RoF, for me, is that you need to have a pretty reasonable spec in Protection, and RoF is simply not good enough to pull points out of Healing. Of course of you're making a hybrid Monk with significant Protection and Healing then there's a good argument to run it over Orison, but then you're not running a Healing Monk anymore, are you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

It allows for a nice combination with Signet of Devotion for a pretty good heal at only the cost of 5 energy.

Well everything combos pretty well with Signet of Devotion. The only place where SoD seems to have even more utility is on a Boon Monk - on every other guy I've run SoD has mixed in nicely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

If you are pure Healing and Divine Favor, then I suggest using Divine Boon over Orison.

Simply swapping in Divine Boon for Orison is a colossal mistake. Hell, just slipping Boon into a build is a huge mistake. The skill fundamentally changes the way a Monk is played, and how you have to build one to make him effective.

Just from a PvE perspective, for example, I prefer Warrior and Elementalist secondaries on a straight, non-Boon Monk, since your energy supply is pretty solid and you really don't need a management secondary. With a Booner, though, you absolutely need that energy management secondary if you want to have the kind of staying power that a non-booner has. You're also going to need to start leaning towards more spammables to make use of boon, and away from some of the more expensive, powerful skills that a non-booner often runs. It's just a very different experience and you need to plan for that.

Peace,
-CxE