Curse

GW Monkey · Jun 14, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

I don't understand why this axe attack is an elite.

It's just +xx damage, 4 adren... whereas Penetrating Blow is +yy damage, 5 adren, with 20% armor penetration. The difference is damage is 5 points for any given level (axe @ 15: cleave +25, penetrating +20)

Now, taking into account the widely varying base damage of axe in the first place... I find that penetrating does as much or more damage than cleave, and it's only 1 adren bump more. Most times you can't tell by the damage dealt what attack you fired off.

I can only assume there's a build where not making Cleave an elite gives an axe warrior a serious advantage using it with another elite, because I just can't find a reason to justify it's gold border status. But then I'm an idiot, so that's why I'm asking...

Tellani Artini · Jun 14, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Against softer targets (AL60) I would expect cleave to do more overall damage in the long run due to the lower adrenaline requirement.

kuramaroze · Jun 14, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I don't see why either. I use cleave because it is a good skill, but there's nothing special to it. I just bring it to spam it alongside penetrating blow with for great justice because it is the best combo for me being that I don't have all of my elites yet. Still, it is pretty weak for an elite skill.

Elythor · Jun 14, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Cleave is very nice against soft targets. And I do think 1 adrenaline does make a difference in fast-pace situations in Tombs. As a warrior, you'd always struggle to make the quick hit before your enemy gets healed, and the lower requirement of cleave makes it nice.

However, I'd take Battle Rage over Cleave as my elite tho. I can just keep spamming battle rage and penetrating blows over and over.

Scaphism · Jun 15, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

You might as well ask why any skill is elite. Because ANet decided it was so is the clearest possible answer.

The history of cleave might help some understanding here.
At one point cleave only cost 2 adrenaline (but did less damage). At that point it dominated the entire axe line- but spamming it every 3rd hit slowed down your other adrenal skills by 1/3. It was a good elite, but it distorted every other skill around it. It dominated the skillbar.

If you asked me why I thought they invented elites, I think I'd point to cleave. It spammy, does good damage, and in general it's flat out better than non-elites.

At 4 adrenaline it distorts your skillbar a bit less, but it's still effective. I think it's a change for the better, but it doesn't solve the problem that having elite skills creates. Also, as others have pointed out, it's viewed as a baby elite- it's one of the first ones you can get, so you pick it up and use it til you get the others. Bad system, IMO, but that's what we have.

Deathlord · Jun 15, 2005, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Simple, everytime you use a adreniline skill, no matter how much you have in the pool, it'll still be inactive until you recharge it. So even if you attacked somebody 10x meaning you have 10 adreniline, you'd be unable to use cleave twice in a row because its own adrenal pool would have to start over from zero, so you'd need to get up to 14 until you can use it again. If you do massive attacking then you can spam it alongside with penetrating blow, allowing sort of a double spam. It's up to the person if he wants to use it or not. I personally have found it very helpful in PVP and PVE when you're dealing atleast 50 damage every hit/other hit.