Curse

ComMan · Jun 11, 2005, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Still sturggling to find my role on the team as a Ranger, but I've at least (I think) gotten better.

Current setup:

12 Marksmanship
12 Expertise (Mask + Major Rune)
10 Wilderness Survival (Minor Rune)
3 Inspiration Magic

Skills:

Poison Arrow
Throw Dirt
Kindle Arrows
Penetrating Attack
Distracting Shot
Pin Down
Nature's Renewal (Drain Enchantment if my team doesn't want me to carry)
Frozen Soil (or Rez Signent, if my team doesn't want me to carry FS.)

Right now I'm having a slew of troubles, so I'm asking once again (with more receptiveness this time, since trying things my own way just causes me to die a lot), what are Rangers supossed to do, and how do I go about doing that?

For one thing, should I drop Kindle Arrows? While the extra damage can be helpful when I do need to attack something, it does the same ammount of damage even with a Pen. Attack. Does Read The Wind work with Penetrating Attack to do more damage than it would normally? Should I even bother with 2 skills devoted to damage dealing?

Sting · Jun 12, 2005, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Sounds like you tried to listen to those "UBER" Rangers who claim to be able to 2 hit people from pt 1

. As I stated there either they are full of it or they are living in early beta B4 the rangers skills were nerfed to "support" class status. Your only real dmg is done through conditions (ie poison, bleed ect.) wich is nice unless the other team has a monk. Now others will come in behind me and state that all you need to do is cast 2 or 3 spirits and youll "pwn" if your group is alive or not chasing things out of range. IMPO change to interupt and use your Mesmer interups for added energy loss and dmg. Either way good luck and have fun.

ComMan · Jun 12, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Replaced Penetrating Shot with Debilitating Shot, with very poor results thus far. At the moment I don't seem to have the Mesmer spells necessary for Mana Drain to be useful.

With people geting 80+ mana (especially in Tombs), is it really worth it to carry Mana Drain skills? I've had a lot of trouble using Concussion Shot effectivly (especially against monks, who have very low cast times on almost every spell), but at this point I don't really see another way of getting that all important Caster Shotdown everyone wants.

Radagast de Brun · Jun 12, 2005, 07:10 AM // 07:10

If you want a caster shutdown, maybe even the ability to shutdown several casters if you can switch targets effectively, you could consider choking gas and practiced stance. I'd personally pull a few points out of marksmanship to do this get expertise to 13 (drops the cost of 5 energy skills to 2), and add at least one more point to wilderness survival. With this you could have choking gas up about 2/3 of the time. Choking gas lingers about three seconds, meaning that this could probably almost completely shutdown two casters while it's up.

Upon reflection this could perhaps be made still more effective by means of quickening zephyr (provided it works with your team build, consider Echo if it doesn't) which would allow you to almost constantly have choking gas up, even without practiced stance. This would free you to get another stance, perhaps tiger's fury (toss a few points into beast mastery). This would raise your attack speed, thus increasing the number of arrows you put out and maybe allowing you to get a third caster into your cycle. You aren't going to do much damage (I'd personally scale back to about 8 marksmanship for this build), but as long as you can fire you will interupt (your arrows don't even need to hit the target).

Sting · Jun 12, 2005, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Many mesmer spells will interupt as well as steal energy or cause added damage for a bonus. If the battle lasts for more than a few minutes it will add up especialy against elementalists because there spells usually have a high energy cost to them.

ComMan · Jun 12, 2005, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting

Many mesmer spells will interupt as well as steal energy or cause added damage for a bonus.

This brings me back to the same question I've asked over and over without getting a response:

Why take a shutdown Ranger over a shutdown Mesmer? I've yet to see any reason why a Ranger can do the the job even as well, much less better, than a Mesmer can.

Which turns me back to the question that still nags me, why have a Ranger in your party at all? What are they good for? What can the Ranger do well that no other class can outshine them at?

Genos · Jun 12, 2005, 08:58 AM // 08:58

simply because like many a spell caster, mesmers are made of glass. rangers arent. you also have decent energy (with druids at least). however i play R/E.. so ill leave a R/Me to tell you =P

Sting · Jun 12, 2005, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

This brings me back to the same question I've asked over and over without getting a response:

Why take a shutdown Ranger over a shutdown Mesmer? I've yet to see any reason why a Ranger can do the the job even as well, much less better, than a Mesmer can.

Which turns me back to the question that still nags me, why have a Ranger in your party at all? What are they good for? What can the Ranger do well that no other class can outshine them at?

I play a ranger because Ive always played an archer class. And its fairly typical that these classes are nerfed early on but Rangers here are not as bad off as they were in DAoC early on IMO. And they are the funnest class to play even with their short commings again IMO.

Well rangers do have some good skills left. I use Pindown, poison arrow, throw dirt and since I play 4v4 instead of waiting hrs for a PUG at HoH I bring Troll Ungent. And with Rangers armor being the best in the game against elemental damage and the heavy elementalist group builds makes it somewhat nice. And the other thing is Rangers are not as high on the enemies attack list as mesmer primaries and I dont know if they get any better skills being a primary mesmer. The biggest benifit would be more energy. All the "support" classes for the most part can be used as a secondary profesion without much drawback.

ComMan · Jun 12, 2005, 09:34 AM // 09:34

It actually sounds like you play a lot like me Sting, which makes me wonder why you defend Rangers so fiercely.

I spend most of my time in the comp. arena as well, but I often find myself feeling like a non-contributer to a team that doesn't want my help.

I feel even worse about my class and the setup that I like to use when people won't even consider me for a Team Arena or Tombs Team, or will tell me to respec entirely to play interrupt, which would require me to focus on expensive Mesmer skills that aren't affected by Expertise. Why would I want to be a Ranger to do that? It seems silly to me.

Don't get me wrong, there are moments when I can get a handily timed Pin Down or Frozen Soil to save the day for my team, but I usually find myself just a bystander who can make people walk slowly.

Cymmina · Jun 12, 2005, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Rangers are best played as opportunists in my mind. Your damage will never compete with an elementalist, but as you mentioned, a well timed skill can turn the tide for your party. Not everything listed here will be applicable to your particular build, but you can always switch secondaries if something else sounds more interesting.

Greater Conflagiration (sp?) can actually allow rangers to tank as good as or better than warriors if they are wearing the armor with +fire def. Going R/W might be an interesting option, at least in random 4v4, with all of the handy defensive skills available as a ranger. Even if meleeing isn't your cup of tea, there's cheap stances like Frenzy and Flurry in the tactics line, also allowing you to drop wilderness survival and Troll Unguent in favor of Healing Signet (I like the safety net of a healing skill, regardless of target priority. If you piss off enough people, they will come after *you* instead of one of your other teammates).

I don't think there are very many preparations that are good for PvP, due to duration and casting time. Choking Gas would be the exception, due to it's unique nature. I would combine it with Practiced Stance or Echo, like Radagast says. For PvE, I like Ignite Arrows + Dual Shot.

I personally think Pin Down and Water Trident are the best "snares" due to range, recharge, and energy cost.

Conjure Frost/Flame/Lightning are great damage boosting enchantments for PvP due to duration (60 seconds!), provided you have the appropriate bowstring to make them work. Rarely does anyone think to target the ranger or bother with stripping their enchantments.

Frozen Soil is an obvious choice for PvP. Nature's Renewal is an interesting skill, too, and may help you land Concussion Shot on at least the protection monks and mesmers/necros. Using Arcane Conundrum will also help.

I know a lot of people aren't fond of going 4 attribute lines because being 12/12/10 is uber in their minds, but if adding skills from other lines makes you a more well rounded character, by all means go 10/10/9/7. You can still get 12 or 13 in at least one of those attributes by using the appropriate mask and a major rune. You can offset the -50 health easily with a bowgrip of fortitude and a minor vigor rune.

Tellani Artini · Jun 12, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

Right now I'm having a slew of troubles, so I'm asking once again (with more receptiveness this time, since trying things my own way just causes me to die a lot), what are Rangers supossed to do, and how do I go about doing that?

Rangers can do many things that other profs do; first decide what you want/need to do, then figure out how to do it, instead of the other way around. Tell us what you want to do with your ranger, and don't you dare say "everything." Try to get out of the "I'm a support player" mindset, because nothing stops a ranger from having a very active and annoying role in the fight.

Rangers can be effective damage dealers, but they aren't spike damagers like elementalists; instead they deal sustained damage, and use their skills to lock down the opponent for the kill. Wilderness survival might not be the best attrib for damage, despite preparations.

About your current build. I should hope you're not just using poison arrow on a single target, instead keeping their entire team poisoned the whole time. If you want to get nastier with your DoT, I suggest hunter's shot to cause long-term bleeding on approaching or retreating enemies. Stacked with poison, this is hard to ignore. Another excellent bleeding source is barbed trap, imo the best utility trap.

Let's assume you want to continue on the condition line. Here's a somewhat popular strategy:

Hunter's Shot
Apply Poison
Crippling Shot {Elite}
Distracting Shot
Debilitating Shot
Barbed Trap
2 free slots, suggestions: Favorable Winds, Throw Dirt, wards, enchant removal, more traps

1. Do your trap business.
2. Apply the poison if it is not already applied.
3. Press tab for next target.
4. If target is moving, fire hunter's shot.
5. If target is approaching/attacking warrior or retreating caster, fire crippling shot.
6. If target is an elementalist, give them a distracting shot for the hell of it.
7. If target is a monk, fire debilitating shot.
8. Go to 2.

Apply poison doesn't last as long as poison arrow, but it should last long enough for you to cycle back to the first target at a decent wilderness survival score (which is more important than marksmanship in this build). Also, I suggest a recurve bow, or a flat bow if you're using favorable winds, obviously with a poisoner's bow string.

Crippling shot probably seems like an odd choice of elite, but it's perfect for this build. Use it liberally.

Howling Wind · Jun 12, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Since your a mesmer, why not try using arcane conundrum to try and land that concussion shot or distracting shot. If you use concussion and there are other spell casters nearby, use epidemic, it should spread. Then just barrage or strike away, good against monks. Carry debiliating shot with you and just forget about energy drain with mesmers spells, let the mesmer themselves do that.

If your thinking about greater conflag, then your a mesmer which is even better and you would become an extremely good tank against melees, with drakescale + great conflag you'll have 115 AL against all melees and fire based spells. Combine that with mantra of flame you'll have a further 30%+ reduction in fire based damages.

Minwanabi · Jun 12, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

I think you should realize that your ranger isn't going to out-damage, out-tank, or out-interrupt any other jobs. There are elementalists, warriors, and mesmers for that. The best rangers will bring energy denial, and interrupts, in the form of distracting, savage, debilitating, and is that better than what a mesmer can do? No. The benefit to a ranger is his anonimity (sp?) and various nature rituals. If you focus on just shutting down a monk, or a necro, or an elementalist, you can do that adaquately, but at the same time, you should have some spirit, maybe two, that will greatly help out your team. Whether it's fertile season for defense on KotH maps, or frozen soil if you're in a spike group, or nature's renewal against high defense teams, a lot of people overlook rituals, but a well-prepared group can take a lot of advantage with one. If you aren't in the same group just about every time for Tombs, there's going to be trouble, because a ritual requires coordination from the entire group. If you are, in fact, PUGing every day, you may be better off not playing a ranger, if you want damage go war or ele, and if you want caster harassment, go mes.

ComMan · Jun 12, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minwanabi

If you are, in fact, PUGing every day, you may be better off not playing a ranger, if you want damage go war or ele, and if you want caster harassment, go mes.

........damn.

Sting · Jun 12, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I dont defend them so fiercly IMO. I am quick to point out that their dmg sucks to no end and I cant stand Anet NERFed this class from being 1 of the top classes to that of a "support" class. I actually critisize anet and the class alot and mostly get flamed for it by the "UBER" 2 shooting rangers wild claims LOL. I also point out mesmer interupts are better becasue of arrow flight time and either added dmg or energy steals. But the rangers do have their armor and becasue they are fairly weak they are at the bottom of the target lists.

KonohaFlash · Jun 13, 2005, 08:31 AM // 08:31

im a primary ranger and i wreak havoc in any battlefield. i haven't tried the tombs yet as im still waiting for my guildmates to catch up and reach dragon's lair but i've done a lot of random/team arena pvp and dare i say - not one class has yet to survive me for more than 20 secs.

eles and mesmers go down in around 10 secs, warriors, rangers and necros in 15 and finally monks in 20. (these numbers are based on 1vs1 full health, they go down quicker if i have support or they're not in full health)

problem is, it happens so quickly nobody notices what i actually do in battle which is both good and bad at the same time(i guess even my targets don't notice what hit them before they're dead). Good that until people start to recognize the power of rangers, more often than not, i would be one of the last to be targeted; Bad that rangers will always be seen as a trash class.

triorph · Jun 13, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Wow, you've gotta tell us what you're doing to get that, I can understand being a good pestering class that doesn't get recognised as a threat and helps bring opponents down (heck i've solod W/Mo on the pvp ranger/mesmer default char) but from what you're saying it sounds like you're doing a very fast and effective job.

mostro · Jun 13, 2005, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

Why take a shutdown Ranger over a shutdown Mesmer? I've yet to see any reason why a Ranger can do the the job even as well, much less better, than a Mesmer can.

When you play a mesmer and find that all 3 monks on the enemy team are protected by spell breakers, you'd wish you have a ranger on your team too...

ComMan · Jun 13, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostro

When you play a mesmer and find that all 3 monks on the enemy team are protected by spell breakers, you'd wish you have a ranger on your team too...

Hehe, that's actually pretty smart. However, most monks I've seen won't sacrifice their elite spot for Spell Breaker, and even if they do, it lasts 15 seconds and has a 45 second recharge, so they can't keep it going. Regardless, I do wonder why I don't see Spell Breaker used more often.

Sting · Jun 13, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonohaFlash

im a primary ranger and i wreak havoc in any battlefield. i haven't tried the tombs yet as im still waiting for my guildmates to catch up and reach dragon's lair but i've done a lot of random/team arena pvp and dare i say - not one class has yet to survive me for more than 20 secs.

eles and mesmers go down in around 10 secs, warriors, rangers and necros in 15 and finally monks in 20. (these numbers are based on 1vs1 full health, they go down quicker if i have support or they're not in full health)

problem is, it happens so quickly nobody notices what i actually do in battle which is both good and bad at the same time(i guess even my targets don't notice what hit them before they're dead). Good that until people start to recognize the power of rangers, more often than not, i would be one of the last to be targeted; Bad that rangers will always be seen as a trash class.

LOL uh huh. And this is why you should just say NO to drugs, because its either the poster or the ones he killed in 20 sec. I mean how long was your winning streak musta been a fairly long since you one every round.