Curse

Manderlock · May 10, 2005, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarous

Where did this asinine concept of 'working' in order to play a game come from? everquest?

PvE is, bluntly, boring as watching paint dry for me and a lot of other people who like a lot of the game concepts and gameplay guild wars has. Its work - something i do not for its own merit but because i wish to do something fun later. This is not nor should it ever be a function in a game. Saying that you need to 'earn' something just to play the game competitively is the worst kind of nonsense i can dream up.

How is adding elite skill trainers into the game giving pvp a massive advantage over pve characters? How is adding quests that unlock elite skills giving pvp characters a massive advantage over pve characters? Show how *one* of the options presented in this thread favors pvp characters before you say stuff like that.
Flat out - casual players that don't have time to grind like mofos are at a disadvantage with this system. They will enter arena, meet one of your fearsome l337 kiddies who does nothing but farm elites and runes all day, get smashed over and over because they can't put the time investment into becoming 'good players' even though they'd likely kick the l337 kiddies butt if they had all the upgrades and skills available to them.

Dedication and skill are all wonderful things when they actually mean something to the game you're playing. PvP is not like PvE in guild wars, and will not be the same in any game right up until the point actual AI is created. Its like saying you have to master basketweaving to become the greatest swordsman who ever lived - nonsense.

Laz

Im sorry Laz, but in tombs I have yet to go aginst these "gods of PvP you talk about". Some battles the PvP players where so pathetic, Ive had a harder time fighting my way out of a wet paper sack.

Here is the thing both PvP and PvE complain about the capture sig, and the good ones are are extreamly hard to find. Hence the name *ELITE*.

eventhorizen · May 10, 2005, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarous

Where did this asinine concept of 'working' in order to play a game come from? everquest?

PvE is, bluntly, boring as watching paint dry for me and a lot of other people who like a lot of the game concepts and gameplay guild wars has. Its work - something i do not for its own merit but because i wish to do something fun later. This is not nor should it ever be a function in a game. Saying that you need to 'earn' something just to play the game competitively is the worst kind of nonsense i can dream up.

How is adding elite skill trainers into the game giving pvp a massive advantage over pve characters? How is adding quests that unlock elite skills giving pvp characters a massive advantage over pve characters? Show how *one* of the options presented in this thread favors pvp characters before you say stuff like that.

Flat out - casual players that don't have time to grind like mofos are at a disadvantage with this system. They will enter arena, meet one of your fearsome l337 kiddies who does nothing but farm elites and runes all day, get smashed over and over because they can't put the time investment into becoming 'good players' even though they'd likely kick the l337 kiddies butt if they had all the upgrades and skills available to them.

Dedication and skill are all wonderful things when they actually mean something to the game you're playing. PvP is not like PvE in guild wars, and will not be the same in any game right up until the point actual AI is created. Its like saying you have to master basketweaving to become the greatest swordsman who ever lived - nonsense.

Laz

level 1-10 random grouping 4v4 best kill ratio so far 18 fights to nil.
level 1-15 random grouping 4v4 best kill ratio so far 12 - 0
Fort Koga, level 18, managed to take part in 4 victories versus team ALL level 20, but got bored with char and started a new one.

Edit/ my uber hammer of doom doesnt exist either, with all the time I spend in the arenas iv to buy all my skills and armor and weapons, and I dont usually have a lot, but anyway, continue saying how youll destroy me in pvp, I think it would actually be the other way around.
Definition of skill : killing players 3-4 levels higher than you REPEATEDLY for a few hours, before eventually losing

gg team.

Siren · May 10, 2005, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarous

Siren - lions arch is perhaps a third of the way through the game. Probably a quarter. Judging how much of a grind something is going to be based off your admittedly limited experience of the pve game hardly seems reasonable.

3k does not take much killing and looting to accomplish in the later zones, and as the suggestor pointed out it would allow the accumulation to take place in smaller doses so they don't have to spend large chunks of their life at once to acquire one skill.

And if about a quarter of the way through, I've already unlocked a nice collection of skills/spells/runes (unlocking, by the way, purely unintentionally)...why is it such a burden to explore and unlock? It's painless. I don't see why there's so much griefing about checking the place out.

It's almost as if the PvP fanatics are simply obsessing over nabbing skills and not enjoying the game. I'm not saying that PvE is challenging, necessarily, although it is pretty hairy at times, but it's not some huge burden like the PvPers make it out to be.

I don't know what the problem here is...are the PvPers too hardcore for GuildWars? Are they too casual? From how it sounds, they're trying to walk that line between casual and hardcore, claiming they're not interested in major devotion to building their characters (SoC), but at the same time, their obsession with completing their (ready-made, insta-20) characters screams to me that they're hardcore powergamers who want the best character as fast as they can.

Plus, I still don't see how adding Elite skills to Vendors will make a difference. It'll be adding more of a grind because the only way for players to buy those skills will be to grind high-level mobs for 30 minutes to an hour at a time. So, again, that's not addressing the issue at hand; that's merely adding another issue of grinding.

Again, if people are annoyed with the SoC system, adding another grind for Elite skills isn't going to remedy the problem. It's only going to divert attention away from the SoC system, and focus it onto another grind. I still haven't seen any solution more viable than the Quest-based Elite SoC.

And, you know, it's only a grind because powergamers/powergrinders have made it a grind.

Quote:

It was this way in beta, and damned few people complained about elites being a grind. No one at all that i know of complained that they were too easy to get.

But remember that Elite skills costed around 10-20 gold. That's not a terribly large sum to gain, even with the minimal gold drops back then, so I'd hardly treat the Beta's Skill Vendors (and likewise, the public reaction to them) as having any real relevance here. We're well aware that Betas aren't indicative of what final options will be like in the full retail version, so I'd be more inclined to label the Beta Experiences as less than applicable here.

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Did you ever read the design statments a.net made about guild wars? its linked to above, and says the exact opposite of what you're propounding as the goal of guild wars - where skill, not time spent playing, matters more. Skill requires an even playing field in terms of game abilities, and if you create a time sink to get some abilities, like elites, you therefore no longer have an environment where skill is paramount to winning.

Did it ever cross your mind that people don't particularly care for beating up on near helpless AI whose only chance at defeating you lies in its ridiculous stat bonuses? that they might enjoy the interplay between various skill bar selections when there are people directing them? no?

The skill system guild wars has offers a wonderful chance for competitive play, but they're gutting it by making the bar to enter competitive play both high and tedius to reach.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I do want to mention that ANet has stayed true to their press releases from the get-go. Also, I'd like to mention that the AI in PvE is not complete douches. They are programmed well, and do utilize their skillsets accordingly. If I had taken screenshots during some of the combat, I'd prove it. They use Hexes when they need to, they don't waste energy, they use health drains and shatter enchantments when they need to...in many ways, they're actually more intelligent than the majority of PvPers out there.

May 10, 2005, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

To truly master Guild War you need to be skilled in PvP and PvE.

However its true that this game is what you make it. If you only want to only master PvP go ahead.................................and just use the premades.

What aspect of PvE needs to be learned besides teamwork in PvE to master PvP? Being that the concept isn't mutually exclusive to PvE, you can "master" the combat of the game through PvP alone.

But you're right, currently to do anything worth it in the game you must play PvE or else you're PvP builds have no chance.

For the misinformed:

The best players in the game are all currently sitting in hardcore PvP guilds. Continue being delusional thinking that any PvE oriented guild has a chance of beating the PvP guilds that have good players and you're in for a surprise. It's a fact that the PvE guilds in the game can have a chance at beating the newbies in the game and even some of the mid-ranked(not like it means much) guilds. Most of the PvE builds cant even cut it in PvP so unless they are trying hard to be good at both(not like you have to try hard to be good at PvE) then they wont be touching any PvP guild.

If you think playing PvE is going to tip people off and make them better at PvP I invite you to go find some friends and PvP against some of the better players around here.

Eet GnomeSmasher · May 10, 2005, 09:19 AM // 09:19

To me, a lot of people just can't think outside of the box. They just can't seem to get out of the mindset of thinking grind is fun. They think that making something time consuming and tedious means that it's fun and that it's a real accomplishment. All it says it that you have time on your hands, nothing else.

Repetitive, tedious tasks are a cheap way to extend the life of an MMO. I thought ANET had more imagination than that. They did a lot of things right, but also horribly screwed up a few things. I really do like PVE, but I can only do the same missions again and again before I tear my hair out. And that's what the skill capturing system forces people to do. Repeat things over like a gerbil in a wheel.

It seems to me a lot of you "grinders" have this elitist attitude where only people who have time to waste should have all the best stuff. GW was supposed to be different but underneath it all, it's basically the same as any other MMO in terms of grind.

Manderlock · May 10, 2005, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

And also for you people that keep using straw man arguments: they are not called elite skills due to their exclusiveness. They are elite due to the fact that a mechanic was needed to balance potential broken combinations or skills that do things the classes normally shouldnt be doing. Stop making stuff up and if you dont know what you're talking about-dont post it.

Hahaha, I see no sorce, it seem to me you are the one "making stuff up"

I can read the word elite and understand its meaning, something that you seem not to grasp. Look up the word elite before you try and question my views.

Also you will note that I did say that if they make them more commen they should change the name. Because as it stands they are elite, (as they should be) however they no longer will be if they are made more common place.

EDIT: Eet, you are not capturing right. There is a way, and it should not take you more than afew times. Learn how to do something before complaining about it.

Lazarous · May 10, 2005, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

As I have said before, although your impressive skills of denial will no doubt have prevented you from undertsanding this, is that those people who master this game, not spend the most time on it, but MASTER it, are going to have the best advantages. Skill at the WHOLE game, not just PvP, is going to determine what you have access to. If you think you are so impressive at Guild Wars why dont we both make PvE characters and meet up? Obviously you will able to tear through the game as fast as me atleast, suffering the same number if not less deaths gaining the same stuff if not better?

Blackace pointed out a nice guide to becoming a master of pve. Little more needs to be said about that subject from my perspective, whether you believe it to be true or not.

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Let me ask Lazarus this question, do you hide behind rocks if you are a caster to take out enemy rangers? Thats something I discovered ingame, and its no big deal knowing it, but iv never used a PvP only character.

No, i run right up to the ranger and wave at them. Obviously cover is a radically advanced concept for us unwashed pvp masses.

Quote:

level 1-10 random grouping 4v4 best kill ratio so far 18 fights to nil.

...you do realize this has no relevance whatsoever to the points being made? no?

Instead of engaging in a wonderful e-peen contest you seem so dead set on winning...i concede. You are more e-virile than me, you have no need to prove it.

Quote:

Im sorry Laz, but in tombs I have yet to go aginst these "gods of PvP you talk about". Some battles the PvP players where so pathetic, Ive had a harder time fighting my way out of a wet paper sack.

Here is the thing both PvP and PvE complain about the capture sig, and the good ones are are extreamly hard to find. Hence the name *ELITE*.

two points - first, the farmers still haven't had quite enough time to get a massive advantage in terms of skills and runes. Give them a few more days, and you'll see larger power disparities appearing in tombs. I was able to be competitive without any elites as a me/n when i played the past few days. I know this is going to change.

second - blackace pointed this out, elite was designed as a way to stop certain skill combinations from happening. They are elite only in that they impart abilities to your class that they would lack without them - amazing ranger energy management via marksmans wager, for example, when they don't have similar non-elite energy management skills.

May 10, 2005, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

Im sorry Laz, but in tombs I have yet to go aginst these "gods of PvP you talk about". Some battles the PvP players where so pathetic, Ive had a harder time fighting my way out of a wet paper sack.

Here is the thing both PvP and PvE complain about the capture sig, and the good ones are are extreamly hard to find. Hence the name *ELITE*.

Tombs PvP is pathetic. Because most people suck incredibly at the game. Challenge on of the top guilds(ignore the ladder rankings for that) and you'll see a different style of play than Tombs offers. Also being that the chance of you meeting one of the better guilds is rare right now due to farm mode being on, it's kind of moot to say that.

Once again read why the skills are called elite and dont make things up.

Eventhorizon: Everyone knows Arena matches are full of noobs. If you're basing any arguments off of Arena combat then people will continue to look at you like you have no idea what you're talking about.

Siren: It's not painless. To you it is, but to others it's not. Especially being that the game is a grind for anyone that wants to compete seriously. The devs know it, we know it, and alot of people refuse to acknowledge it.

Not everyone likes to explore. If you like it fine, but that's no reason to force you're style of play on others. Jsut because you enjoy something doesnt mean others do.

Ignore the die hard "unlock all skill options" PvP people-they are just as bad as PvE fanatics.

Also, alot of you have no idea what you're talking about. The game is not balanced right now for PvP because skill acquisition is skewed towards those who put more time into the game. They are better based on the options they have available to them, not based on inherent skill.

The argument that "we know betas arent like release" is also moot. Even alpha testers didn't see the change coming and that's because no one expected to be hit with a 3 tiered grind system. People complained about skill acquisition ever since June and anet seems to have went in a reverse direction. So once again for some of you just stop making things up and if you dont know the whole story-dont write about it.

May 10, 2005, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

Hahaha, I see no sorce, it seem to me you are the one "making stuff up"

Being that I've been in the community since last year and was around when the elite system was first introduced, and understand the balancing mechanic of the elite system AND can actually see the point blank effect it has on the game AND actually get to read what the devs post: I think I know who is making what up.

Quote:

I can read the word elite and understand its meaning, something that you seem not to grasp. Look up the word elite before you try and question my views.

Once again you're making yourself look like a fool. Ask anyone what Elite skills are that has been around and they'll tell you it's because of game balance NOT because of who has them. Duh.

Quote:

Also you will note that I did say that if they make them more commen they should change the name. Because as it stands they are elite, (as they should be) however they no longer will be if they are made more common place.

Read above. If you dont know what you're talking about-dont post about it. Simple and effective rule to not being a dumbass.

Eet GnomeSmasher · May 10, 2005, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

EDIT: Eet, you are not capturing right. There is a way, and it should not take you more than afew times. Learn how to do something before complaining about it.

Uh huh. Another lame attempt to discredit by basically saying that I suck and don't know what I'm doing. Why don't you tell me what I'm doing wrong then instead of taking jabs? I've posted earlier in this thread everything that I've found wrong with the system. If you're so damn knowledgeable, why don't you address those issues and come up with the answer?

Manderlock · May 10, 2005, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Being that I've been in the community since last year and was around when the elite system was first introduced, and understand the balancing mechanic of the elite system AND can actually see the point blank effect it has on the game AND actually get to read what the devs post: I think I know who is making what up.

Once again you're making yourself look like a fool. Ask anyone what Elite skills are that has been around and they'll tell you it's because of game balance NOT because of who has them. Duh.

Read above. If you dont know what you're talking about-dont post about it. Simple and effective rule to not being a dumbass.

Rambel rambel.............still no source.

If (and this is BIG if) what you say is true then the term Elite should be taken away, and a more suiting name taged on. Because as it stands the Skills fit there name, wether you like it or not.

EDIT: Eet its easy, I am not a hardcore PvE player. There for if I manage to capture a skill with my method that no one has ether found or been able to get, it gives me an edge in PvP (granted a small one but still an ege)

May 10, 2005, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

Rambel rambel.............still no source.

June 2004 on the old TGH boards:http://www.guild-hall.net/forums/vie...t=4106&start=0

Once again, if you dont know anything dont post about it. Now stop trolling.

Manderlock · May 10, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

As posted HERE on OGaming, Guild Wars now has 'elite' skills, of which you are only allowed to bring one per mission - because they are so unbalancing. Yes, instead of playing a game where you're choosing amoung eight balanced skills to bring against your opponent, you now get to choose seven skills, and one UBER skill, with which to vanquish your enemies. Will you concentrate on using your super skill over and over again? Or will you work on maximizing how much you can abuse your 'slammer'? New strategies abound!

I, for one, am glad to know that this game is all about careful skill selection from a host of reasonable choices, and not about picking the one overpowering skill and practicing my spamming skills. No, the days of an abusive Tongue Biter are in the past - because stupidity like that is now a fundamental part of the game!

Hey Arena.net: George Lucas called. He's having trouble ruining Episode 3 - think you can give him his guys back?

Hehe thank you for giving me this. The Elite skills are unbalced..............and? that in no way hinders my point. They are still *ELITE* skill. You just read this and came away with the wrong idea.

For the first time learn to read before you quote something.

S I L E N C E · May 10, 2005, 09:44 AM // 09:44

/rant on

I've read every post in this forum up to this point...All I've heard is it's good! and it's bad!

from my personal experience:
lvl 20 war/monk
total time playing: 4 days--about 4 hours a day

Elites aquired:
Hundred blades
Skull crack

Time it took to find the mob and gain the skills:
Hundred blades: about 25 mins.. reloaded the breech for hatemonger 5 times, and was smart enough to bring the healer hench with me so it would trigger the skill..after all it's an aoe attack

Skull crack: about 45 mins reloaded the mission 4 times...brough enchanter hench with me..enchanter casts..skull crack was used..skull crack was captured.

IMO the SoC elite skill aquiring system isnt flawed at all, if you actually do take the time to research the skill your looking for--which by the way would have been done anyways or you wouldnt know what an elite skill is to begin with, beta aside..the beta was a beta after all.. ment to test things..--you can easily find where and what mob has the skill you "want" to aquire.

The tactic again comes down to skill itself -if you dont know what that is, i'll make it even more plain for you...Timing...everything in this game is based on it, and every player -PVP and PVE- must develope it if they are going to survive anywhere, with any class in GW.

If you cant capture an elite because you dont want to take the 3-5 mins of looking on a forum, or asking in game..(most of you have guilds-use them..but then your here reading this now..when you could be looking up your elite and getting it, instead of moaning about how "hard" it is..which your probably going to add to the time it took you to gt an elite skill..which makes your argument pointless)then take the 35 seconds it takes to port to the closest town to your skill, load a zone 4-5 times another 10-15 mins, find your mob 5 mins, get your skill (uhh what 2 mins?).. then obviously, there is a problem, and it's not game related at all.

sure you can still moan and complain about how it takes 25 -30 mins to get an elite..but again your points are moot.. by the time your done posting, you could already have the skill.

The game itself SHOULD reward the people that actually take the time to level their characters, aquire the gear, the weapons, the sheilds, the skills, the insert anything i've left out here..over a person that simply makes a PVP only character.

The "grind" in this game is equivelent to 4 days of playing 4 hours sessions.
sure you can go make your PVP only characters..who start at lvl 20 with good skills already, decent armor, and decent weapons...OR you can make a PVE character, and build it from the ground-up - gaining invaluable knowledge on the way.

This game was NOT made to make the "elite" beta testers happy.

In order to fix all the whining PVPers..the answer is simple.. PVP experience.
Each round a PVP only player wins in a team in PVP settings = 1 match point Each player a PVP only player kills = 1 point of PVP exp
5 points of PVP xp + 1 match point aquired = First bought skill
Price goes up by 8 PVP exp every new skill thats bought.
Elites are unlockable-but they should be more along the lines of 25 PVP exp and 10 Match Points for the first Elite bought.
Add 25 PVP exp for each extra bought.

Example: (theoretical)

Im leet is a lvl 20 warrior only PVP only character
Im leet kills a player in a pvp event. He's awarded 1 PVP exp.
Im leet's party wins a round in a PVP event. He's awarded 1 Match point.
Im leet kills 4 other people in the next PVP event..but his team looses the round. He's awarded 4 PVP exp..but zero Match points.

Im leet decides to go buy his first skill - "sheild stance"
It's costs him: 1 Match point, and 5 PVP exp
Im leet's next regular skill he decided to buy would be: 13 PVP points
and 1 Match point.

Im leet decided to get an elite skill!
Through his PVPing he's aquired 10 Match points and 25 PVP exp
He decideds to buy the Elite skill "Hundred Blades" which costs:
25 PVP exp and 10 Match points.
His next Elite skill that he buys would then cost:
50PVP exp and 10 Match points.

Only Skills and elites that a PVP player can purchas are those of his Primary and Secondary profession, all others are hidden.

Poof! Fixed.

As for the PVE peoples that arent liking the SoC..cant help you there, it's a beautiful system that keeps the game balenced..after all the game should have it's champions and it should have it's wanna-be's ..anyone that doesnt want to work for their skill through SoC shouldnt be playing PVE, OR should join the wanna-be's line untill you decide to get the skill. Which by the way..are NOT hard to get-nor tedious.. by the time you should be getting Elites..why are you haivng ANY trouble at all to begin with?

/rant off

May 10, 2005, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

As posted HERE on OGaming, Guild Wars now has 'elite' skills, of which you are only allowed to bring one per mission - because they are so unbalancing. Yes, instead of playing a game where you're choosing amoung eight balanced skills to bring against your opponent, you now get to choose seven skills, and one UBER skill, with which to vanquish your enemies. Will you concentrate on using your super skill over and over again? Or will you work on maximizing how much you can abuse your 'slammer'? New strategies abound!

I, for one, am glad to know that this game is all about careful skill selection from a host of reasonable choices, and not about picking the one overpowering skill and practicing my spamming skills. No, the days of an abusive Tongue Biter are in the past - because stupidity like that is now a fundamental part of the game!

Hey Arena.net: George Lucas called. He's having trouble ruining Episode 3 - think you can give him his guys back?

Hehe thank you for giving me this. The Elite skills are unbalced..............and? that in no way hinders my point. They are still *ELITE* skill. You just read this and came away with the wrong idea.

For the first time learn to read before you quote something.

Not only did you not read the first post but instead just c/p'd it, you ignored the whole thread talking about game balance. Thanks, we know you're a troll.

Siren · May 10, 2005, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Siren: It's not painless. To you it is, but to others it's not. Especially being that the game is a grind for anyone that wants to compete seriously. The devs know it, we know it, and alot of people refuse to acknowledge it.

Not everyone likes to explore. If you like it fine, but that's no reason to force you're style of play on others. Jsut because you enjoy something doesnt mean others do.

How am I (and how have I been) forcing my style of play on others? Am I pulling some Fascist/Nazi angle here? I don't see how I've been dressing up like the GuildWars Gestapo. And, the SoC system is what you make of it. If you treat it like a chore, it's going to feel like a chore, simple as that. As much as I want to avoid bringing in Cartesian philosophy...it's all in your head.

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Ignore the die hard "unlock all skill options" PvP people-they are just as bad as PvE fanatics.

Quick note: I'm no PvE fanatic. I spend a chunk of time doing PvP, whether it's Arena, guild battles, whatever. The difference is I tend to balance my playtime between PvP/PvE.

And again, it comes back to viable solutions to the current state of SoC, where having all skill options available/unlocked is not going to remedy the problem of SoC. It's merely going to serve as a distraction.

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Also, alot of you have no idea what you're talking about. The game is not balanced right now for PvP because skill acquisition is skewed towards those who put more time into the game. They are better based on the options they have available to them, not based on inherent skill.

So, let me get this straight. Because a Necromancer has Life Transfer, while a Mesmer doesn't have Ineptitude, PvP is imbalanced. Nevermind that there are other ways to work around/minimize a Necro Elite skill when you have no Elites of your own. You'd agree that it would be foolish to deny the existence of counter strategies with "normal" skills for an opposing Elite skill?

Quote:

The argument that "we know betas arent like release" is also moot. Even alpha testers didn't see the change coming and that's because no one expected to be hit with a 3 tiered grind system. People complained about skill acquisition ever since June and anet seems to have went in a reverse direction. So once again for some of you just stop making things up and if you dont know the whole story-dont write about it.

All the more reason not to reference Beta/Alpha Experiences when discussing the full retail game. The point of Beta/Alpha is testing, so naturally the game environment will be radically different. Beta/Alpha-based arguments are moot in and of themselves, no matter what is being said, because Beta/Alpha do not reflect the finished state of the game, only the process, so it's an entirely moot argument to bring in Beta/Alpha at all.

Lazarous · May 10, 2005, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

In order to fix all the whining PVPers..the answer is simple.. PVP experience.
Each round a PVP only player wins in a team in PVP settings = 1 match point Each player a PVP only player kills = 1 point of PVP exp
5 points of PVP xp + 1 match point aquired = First bought skill
Price goes up by 8 PVP exp every new skill thats bought.
Elites are unlockable-but they should be more along the lines of 25 PVP exp and 10 Match Points for the first Elite bought.
Add 25 PVP exp for each extra bought.

no no no, god no.

Do anything but make pvp rewards that directly affect pvp character strength to this level.

The end result of such a system will be mule pvp guilds whose entire purpose of existence is to lose. Or make it so that winning teams cannot be beat outside of your own team going out and pve grinding while the pvp team is having fun.

Laz

eventhorizen · May 10, 2005, 09:53 AM // 09:53

The whole damn game is full of noobs, you think being a noob is reserved to the arenas?
How many 'PvP W/Mo are overpowered Nerf!!11' posts have we seen?

You guys might able to burn me right off the forums, and Lazarus you started this little 'e-peen contest' with your PvE'rs are fools and will get owned in PvP. But smalktalking skill in a forum never makes your points valid

The thing is, boys, rather than whine and moan incessantly, iv decided to go the route of PvE and try and build as awsome a character as I can.
Sure, that means I dont have access to HoH, sure I havn't done any GvG, but so what? Turning up for a Guild v Guild fight doesnt make you better than everyone else at choosing skills, attributes, equipment and using them in a battle.
And maybe my character will suck, although im extremelly impressed about what I can do with it now, but again ill concede I have humiliated newbies in the arenas.

Two weeks after launch if any of you PvP only dudes think for one minute you are better players than every single person who has gone into PvE then you are exceptionally mistaken. Not only will I have a larger skill set and better items available for PvP, but Ill have taken on everything this game can throw at me.

So yes, the words PvP do sound big and tough, and turning up and fighting other players is no contest compared to npc's, so what? Iv done enough 'newbie' pvping in the arena's to understand how this game functions, even if im no expert in its finer points.

To be honest if this topic is going to turn into one of those posts where arguments are based upon how much you can insult the other guy, im just gonna stay out. Ill do my competing ingame, with my character, in a game that so far I think is pretty awsome the way it is, and if you annihilate me in a PvP match then so be it.
Until then take you lame preconceptions about how your initial character choice determines your skill at Guild Wars, and stick them somewhere I can expose in a tournament hopefully soon.

Manderlock · May 10, 2005, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Not only did you not read the first post but instead just c/p'd it, you ignored the whole thread talking about game balance. Thanks, we know you're a troll.

Heh, not trolling, just pointing out your mistakes as you make them. Some could view your posts as trollish. By you only focusing on a a small section of my posts and then going to great lenghths to try and belittle me. The truth is we are both being alittle trollish, i will go back and read the entire thread, however if it is just a bunch of people saying that they "think" that is why they call them elite skills I post on it.

Lazarous · May 10, 2005, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

So, let me get this straight. Because a Necromancer has Life Transfer, while a Mesmer doesn't have Ineptitude, PvP is imbalanced. Nevermind that there are other ways to work around/minimize a Necro Elite skill when you have no Elites of your own. You'd agree that it would be foolish to deny the existence of counter strategies with "normal" skills for an opposing Elite skill?

Think more simply than that - because a necro has grenths balance and a mesmer dosesn't have many of their interrupts and/or hexes like (insert applicable spell here) since they didn't spend the time to go to the out of the way places where these skills are found, yes you do have an imbalance.

Its a correctable imbalance, but it exists nevertheless. Anytime a skillbar is limited due to time played, there will be an imbalance. Its just that there are levels of imbalance people are willing to live with.

Laz