May 09, 2005, 02:32 PM // 14:32
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#1
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Academy Page
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The Signet of Capture System Goes Against Fun Gameplay
I can't believe they took elites off city/outpost skill traders. The Signet of Capture system is horrible.
First and foremost my main gripe with the current system is that it forces PvP'ers to grind out extra unwanted PvE ...
Aside from the grind factor the Signet of Capture system ALSO screws over the "I want to earn my ..." crowd as well.
If you look over at Riverside, at D'alrosso (bah I can't spell) Seaboard, and many other "lowbie" missions they are being swarmed with lvl 20'ers who are out to gain their elites or farm runes. Often lowbies will be carried through the mission on the back of a lvl 20'er who rapes ever mob in site. Based on this fact alone I would have thought the "I want to EARN my right to (get skills, lvl, pvp, etc)" crowd would be up in arms.
Other problems include healers who are so busy trying to catch their elite spell that their entire comp gets wiped out *cough Elona markofprotection cough* due to lack of proper healing. Or in other cases on the lvls such as D'alrosso Seaboard the high lvl'er just bails after obtaining the elite leaving their team totally screwed.
Not to mention the space SoC takes up on the skill bar, a spot that could have a spell that is more useful to the party.
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May 09, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39
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#2
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Academy Page
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not fun for you, doesnt' mean its not fun for everyone..
I personally think its a good idea that you have to capture you skills from mobs, rather than just training them... good work. IMO
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May 09, 2005, 02:44 PM // 14:44
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#3
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Academy Page
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Canada
Guild: Furniture Liberation Army
Profession: N/Me
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Easy solution to the level 20's in the lower levels. Don't group with them.
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May 09, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48
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#4
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Guild: The Cornerstone
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The system was flawed from day one and has been discussed many times, fixes suggested, etc. I guess ArenaNet thinks it's nice to have a stupid skill acquisition system, or they just don't care.
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May 09, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59
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#5
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Calgary AB.
Guild: Wanta Fanta [WTF] mo/mes, war/el, nec/ra
Profession: E/N
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Im enjoying the PvE right now. First time through the game though. When I make and play other characters it may be tedious doing all these missions and traveling again.
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May 09, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17
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#6
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England, UK
Guild: Call of Destiny [call]
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People have different ideas of what is fun..
People seem to have taken the "casual gamer" comment to mean "This game is easy, and everything will be handed to you within a week of play with absolutely no effort required."
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May 09, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18
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#7
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
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It is a brilliant system for RP characters, ArenaNet obviously do care about us. The old system where you could buy your way to skills was completely uninteresting.
I also use the "don't group with lvl 20", works fine.
The real problem is the skill unlocking system for PvP characters. I don't see the idea of forcing people who only like PvP to do PvE. The obvious solution would be to unlock all skills for PvP characters, and have a tournament reserved for RP characters.
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May 09, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42
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#8
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Academy Page
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimu
People have different ideas of what is fun..
People seem to have taken the "casual gamer" comment to mean "This game is easy, and everything will be handed to you within a week of play with absolutely no effort required."
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A game that caters to the "casual gamer" is to me a game that acknowledges some players do not have the TIME to devote to a game that others do. Access to game content is what seperates a casual game from a not so casual one.
This Signet of Capture crap was pure bait and switch ... in the BWE's (up to the very last one) you could buy the skills you needed from vendors. But now people are forced into repetitive PvE to gain needed skills for PvP ... well they are forcing people to grind ...
Casual gamers are totaly, utterly SCREWED by the new system. It can take hours upon hours to get the elite you need, and that's just one skill.
Never mind runes ... god that's another treadmill I'm dreading. =(
I like the PvE backstory. I just don't like the fact that i'm being forced to play through those missions countless times to farm skills and runes so I can be competitive in PvP.
That is not fun gameplay. That is grind.
Bamelin
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May 09, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25
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#10
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Academy Page
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http://www.lotd.org/modules.php?name... der=0&thold=0
I'm sure some of you have read this already, and profanities aside it really gets into the meat of what PvP'ers complaints really are.
Quote:
they will spend hours in pvp but complain that they have to actually spend a bit of time preparing their character
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"Abit of time?"
Try 150 hours +
To be competitive in PvP you need to have all your skill unlocked and all the runes for your armor. Massive amounts of time spent farming on the runes alone.
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May 09, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46
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#11
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Mar 2005
Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]
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Likewise, I don't see what the big deal is with Signet of Capture/unlocking through PvE.
If you're strictly PvP (and thus create those insta-"uber" templates), you should be limited, because as ArenaNet has said in the past, if you really want the most powerful, most developed PvP character, the insta-templates aren't going to be your best option.
Frankly, I don't see the SoC/unlocking system as a way to force you to play through PvE simply for the sake of playing through PvE (or to have your "uber" PvP character). ArenaNet has crafted a fantastic campaign mode in GuildWars, and to miss out on it is doing yourself a disservice.
I also don't understand why people are bitching and moaning about capturing Elite skills from bosses. They're Elite skills, so why would they be found at Vendors? The skill system in place now is pretty solid: you acquire skills through missions. In the next town/outpost, you can purchase skills you may have missed in the mission. For the top-tier skills, you go hunting...and the hunting is damn fun, especially if you group with friends...so I don't see what the problem is.
Okay, so you have to explore. Okay, so you have to hunt down various bosses and so forth and steal skills from them. Okay, you identify items and unlock Runes for your characters.
I'm sorry, but if people are griping about that...they're griping about something you do naturally through the course of PvE. True, the unlocking process is a bit slow, because it isn't guaranteed, and there are a hell of a lot of items and runes to unlock...but who ever said it'd be wham-bam-thank-you-maam?
All this talk about a "grind" makes me laugh, it really does. hunting on Dantooine/Dathomir for some 25 hours to master Pistoleer boxes...that's a grind (hell, having to kill 4,000 nunas to get Pistol Stances II is a grind). Having to sit on Lok and spend hours crafting Advanced Bio Effects in SWG to master Doc Crafting, that's a grind.
But to label the SoC/unlocking system as a grind because you don't want to experience PvE content? Because you want uber templates just handed to you? Because you see rewards from questing and not from bitching and moaning? That's asinine.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but grow up, people. I'm a casual gamer by nature, and I don't feel like I'm grinding in the least. It only feels like a grind to those who want to be the best of the best, to dominate complete strangers separated by thousands of miles, to somehow "prove" their worth and validate their sense of self-worth, by crushing other players in an online RPG.
They're crybabies fueled by egos and passion, and I stand by that. I don't see anything other than egotistical crybabies.
EDIT: Also, I've only put about 20 hours (if that) into my primary character, and I've already unlocked about 10 Runes (and mostly just in Shiverpeaks). Grind how? I haven't even been searching for them. I've just been running around, doing quests, and killing any beasties that feel the need to initiate combat with me.
Last edited by Siren; May 09, 2005 at 06:05 PM // 18:05..
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May 09, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15
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#12
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Academy Page
Join Date: May 2005
Profession: R/Mo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siren
Likewise, I don't see what the big deal is with Signet of Capture/unlocking through PvE.
If you're strictly PvP (and thus create those insta-"uber" templates), you should be limited, because as ArenaNet has said in the past, if you really want the most powerful, most developed PvP character, the insta-templates aren't going to be your best option.
Frankly, I don't see the SoC/unlocking system as a way to force you to play through PvE simply for the sake of playing through PvE (or to have your "uber" PvP character). ArenaNet has crafted a fantastic campaign mode in GuildWars, and to miss out on it is doing yourself a disservice.
I also don't understand why people are bitching and moaning about capturing Elite skills from bosses. They're Elite skills, so why would they be found at Vendors? The skill system in place now is pretty solid: you acquire skills through missions. In the next town/outpost, you can purchase skills you may have missed in the mission. For the top-tier skills, you go hunting...and the hunting is damn fun, especially if you group with friends...so I don't see what the problem is.
Okay, so you have to explore. Okay, so you have to hunt down various bosses and so forth and steal skills from them. Okay, you identify items and unlock Runes for your characters.
I'm sorry, but if people are griping about that...they're griping about something you do naturally through the course of PvE. True, the unlocking process is a bit slow, because it isn't guaranteed, and there are a hell of a lot of items and runes to unlock...but who ever said it'd be wham-bam-thank-you-maam?
All this talk about a "grind" makes me laugh, it really does. hunting on Dantooine/Dathomir for some 25 hours to master Pistoleer boxes...that's a grind (hell, having to kill 4,000 nunas to get Pistol Stances II is a grind). Having to sit on Lok and spend hours crafting Advanced Bio Effects in SWG to master Doc Crafting, that's a grind.
But to label the SoC/unlocking system as a grind because you don't want to experience PvE content? Because you want uber templates just handed to you? Because you see rewards from questing and not from bitching and moaning? That's asinine.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but grow up, people. I'm a casual gamer by nature, and I don't feel like I'm grinding in the least. It only feels like a grind to those who want to be the best of the best, to dominate complete strangers separated by thousands of miles, to somehow "prove" their worth and validate their sense of self-worth, by crushing other players in an online RPG.
They're crybabies fueled by egos and passion, and I stand by that. I don't see anything other than egotistical crybabies.
EDIT: Also, I've only put about 20 hours (if that) into my primary character, and I've already unlocked about 10 Runes (and mostly just in Shiverpeaks). Grind how? I haven't even been searching for them. I've just been running around, doing quests, and killing any beasties that feel the need to initiate combat with me.
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I agree with all the things you said except about the people you so call 'crybabies'. All games are based on winning/completion, because what else would be the use of playing it?
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May 09, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33
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#13
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Buffalo NY
Guild: None at the moment
Profession: R/E
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I like the signet of capture aspect, myself.
Adds a feeling of accomplishment when you get it, and really, it's not as hard as other people are making it out to be.
And, when I pvp, I see someone using Order of the Vampire, all I can do is go "God damn, this guys good!"
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May 09, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49
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#14
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Academy Page
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I absolutly laugh when I hear people start talking about the "grind" on Guild wars. I do. I play City of Heroes... If you want to complain about a grind. Go there. They have a nice one for ya.
ArenaNet did not mislead or lie about anything. *You can PVP right off the bat with no "RPG Grind" required. You want something better then what is offered FREELY in the begining? Get off your ass and go get it.
A solution, that I would OFFER,(I am not all firmilar with the PVP aspects just yet) instead of just endlessly bitching about the issue with mass amount of foul language - is that all skills, runes and ect should be offered on PVP side ONLY, to purchase on a vendor. For either a ___ amount of skill points and/or gold that you can earn by winning a PVP (any type of tournament, at least isnt that what they did in beta?). BUT, I would make them cost 2 or 3 times MORE then they did in beta. Simply because PVP-Only players should not have it easier then RPG Players.
The game has been out less then two weeks people. Nothing is set in stone. I am sure ArenaNet has heard, and they are comming up with some way that might appease a bit better then the current system. Personally, I think the RPG is fine. Sure, PVP could use a bit more. But I don't think that everything should be handed out. It SHOULD be earned. RPG should earn it through RPG and PVP through PVP. Makes sense. The thing is... THEY CANNOT FIX IT OVER NIGHT.
Lighten up and have a little Patience... Maybe someone would actually listen and be more willing to change something if people werent making horrible one sided, ugly reviews like the one posted, thats about a game that does what is says** it does and that you dont even pay for!!
(**See *'d comment above)
Last edited by Sidra Meum; May 09, 2005 at 07:00 PM // 19:00..
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May 09, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52
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#15
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Buffalo NY
Guild: None at the moment
Profession: R/E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidra Meum
I play City of Heroes... If you want to complain about a grind. Go there. They have a nice one for ya.
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Dude, I'm a Lineage 2 player. I know exatcly what you mean. "I just upgraded my boots. It only took a week!"
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May 09, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00
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#16
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Frost Gate Guardian
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I guess by that article I must be a carebear then, because I like the system. Although having some elite skills availabe at trainers would be nice. But then again I'm a soloer by nature, I take groups of henchmens out on suicide runs just to get to the mob who has a power I like, I already have some mental notes of bosses with powers that I'm going to go back for. The only reason why I'm sorta blazing ahead is twofold, one: I'm lvl 17 about to hit 18 and I'm still exploring for more mobs.
two: Once I hit all the towns I'll know what skills I'm missing and which ones I need to capture.
I guess I'm more of a pve person which I why I like it. I'm also guessing that's why my guild it'self is small, since alot of people probably don't think like I do.
I really like how the guy is complaining about putting alot of time in developing a character. I mean if you do the pve game before you create a pvp char you can get a nice size amount of skills .
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May 09, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01
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#17
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Academy Page
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackell
Dude, I'm a Lineage 2 player. I know exatcly what you mean. "I just upgraded my boots. It only took a week!"
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ROFL! I was gonna play L2, I really wanted to. But... after I hit level 38, and I met Archvillans... and the change they made with them - that even 4 of my level 50 friends came along with and we all died to my level 40 AV... yeah. I think I still have a good 280k of XP Debt from that encounter. ^.^
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May 09, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29
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#18
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: In my head
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I love how some of you compare GW to other games like COH or Lineage 2. Well a lot of us didnt buy GW to play COH! Try another tired old line please.
Also, I don't see how the crappy skill capturing system is strictly a PVP player's gripe. I mostly play PVE yet I hate the skill capturing system. It's flawed in so many ways, I really wonder about the people who say it's fine. Either they've never tried it or they got lucky in getting their skills on their first tries.
To me, the Elite skills capturing system is a hidden way of extending the "grind" of GW. Sure you can get up to level 20 real quick, but then what about the other stuff like your last 30 attribute points and all the Elites you want to get?
So tell me to go play another game. I'm sure ANET would love that. GW was supposed to be revolutionary...but it's slowly slipping towards mediocrity. And yes I still think it's a great game. Don't even bother flaming me for flaming the game.
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May 09, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38
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#19
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: May 2005
Profession: N/E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Katha
Easy solution to the level 20's in the lower levels. Don't group with them.
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Indeed. Beautiful thing about this game is that all party formations are purely optional.
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May 09, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52
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#20
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra, AU
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All I hear is whining and praising in this topic. For god's sake, shut the hell up. Anet can't make a system that makes everyone happy, you'll always have people that don't like the way they do this and don't like the way they do that. If you don't like it, scrap the game and get something else. If you don't want to, ignore it. Sometimes you got to take the good with the bad. Anet isn't going to make a system specified to each and every persons likes.
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