Curse

Gregslot · Dec 24, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Ok, i have been wanting to post this for a while now since i noticed i jsut cant run certain good build or run certain classes with my heroes because they just do not use some skills properly. So the point of this it is to show at witch part the heroe's ai fail.
So please post what skills you know your hero doesnt use properly and why.
Ill start (obviously):

Warrior:
*Bonetti's Defense: Hero activates stance but uses skills after using it.
*Crude Swing: Hero used only if there are 3-4 enemies in range, but hardly ever uses with 2-3.
*Crusing Blow: Doesnt use it at k.d. targets as often as it could.

Ranger:
*Throw Dirt: Even when not in attack mode, hero runs to the front line to blind a target and stays there:

Monk:
*Healing Touch: Even in avoid combat mode, hero runs to the front line to heal and doesnt priorize as self heal source.
*Shield of Regeneration: Hero doesnt use this skill to heal allies when in danger, only uses it when they are taking damage.
*Zealous Benediction: (Everyone knows) Hero uses it to heal and ignores the benefit of health beein below 50%.

Necromancer:
*Vile Miasma: Hero uses it without considering the benefit of target having conditions, even if hero has skills that only applies conditions.
*General Touch skills: Even when not in attack mode, hero runs to the fornt line, uses skills and stays there.

Mesmer:
*Arcane Echo: Hero uses at a random skill.

Elementalist:
*Aftershock: Hero doesnt priorize k.d. targets.
*Chain Lightining: Most of the time hero uses this skill more than any player would like to, causing too much exhaustion.
*Dragon's Stomp/Earthquake: Hero uses only when there are more then 3 targets.
*Glowstone: Hero uses this skill randomly. Does not priorize targets with weakness. Ignores its conditional benefit.
*Glyph of Lesser Energy: Hero doesnt priorize skills that have a high energy cost after activating it. Sometimes hero uses it when the energy is full. Sometimes hero doesnt use it when energy is low.
*Invoke Lightining: Hero does not priorize the use of this skill. Ex: uses Lightining Orb or Chain Lightining insead of this one.
*Savannah's Heat: Hero only uses this skill when there are 3 or more targets close to each other, if there is only one target, hero wont use it.
*Shell Shock: Hero doenst use this skill to cause cracked armor and deal more damage as a consequence. Hero ignores its benefit.

Assassin:
*Black Mantis Thrust: Hero uses this skill at target reather he is hexed or not.
*Critical Defenses: Hero does not activates this skill before entering combat like Critical Eye or any Dagger spell. Hero only uses this skill when taking too much damage during combat (wich is not its objective). Hero ignores the constant block benefit. Hero should use this skill when enetering combat and at half normal range from target.
*Death's Retreat: Hero can use this skill to "retreat" to a nearby melee ally.
*Disrupting Dagger: Hero uses this skill when entering combat, ignoring the beneft of interrupting.
*Falling Lotus Strike/Falling Spider: Hero doesnt use this skill at k.d. targets as much as it could.
*Golden Fang Strike: Hero uses this skill even when not enchanted. Hero ignores the benefit of beeing enchanted. Hero does not use enchantments to optimize usage of skill.
*Shroud of Distress: Hero doesnt keep this enchantment up as much as it could. Hero usually uses this skill during combat, when taking heavy damage and when health is already below 50%, making it easy to interrupt and putting hero at risk.
*Way of perfection: Hero doesnt use this skill as a source of constant heal. Hero uses this skill during combat, when taking damage. Hero ignores the benefit of using it when entering combat.
*Way of the Assassin: Hero doesnt use this stance as much as it could. Hero uses stance even when not enchanted. Hero ignores the benefit of beeing enchanted.
*General Assassins combo: Heroes usually dont use combos as fast as it could, usually uses lead attacks, attack once or twice and then continues with the combos. Heroes also dont know how to use combos with more then 4 attacks, like using a lead, off-hand, dual and using other skills that would continue the combo (falling spider and continue).
ps: assassins are bad heroes because they hardly ever know how to use their skills.

Ritualist:
*Attuned Was Songkai: Hero doesnt use this skill as much as it could. Hero doesnt cast this spell before using other skills and therefore ignores its benefit.
*Boon of Creation: Hero doesnt use this skill as much as it could. Hero doesnt use this skill before using binding rituals, ignoring the benefit of having it and using binding rituals.

Dervish:
*Avatar of Melandru: Hero doesnt priorize the usage of this skill. Sometimes hero can stay the whole combat without using this form.
*Convition: Hero doesnt use this skill as much as it could. Hero use this stance only during combat and when health is reaching 50%.
*Faithful Intervention: Hero only use this skill when health is below 50% and going down. Doesnt keep it up as much as it could in order to put it to a good use.
*Reaper's Sweep: Hero doesnt use this skill as much as it could. Sometimes hero priorizes other attacks, even when target is below 50% or about get to 50%. Sometimes hero doesnt even use this skill to give the final blow.
*Signet of Pious Light: Hero uses this skill even when not enchanted, making a very bad use of it. Hero doesnt use other enchantments on itself before using this skill.
*Vital Boon: Hero doesnt use skill skill as much as it could. Hero waits for his health to drop below 50% to use it. Hero could use this skill to heal itself with Signet of Pious Light, but he makes a bad use of both.

ps: i havent been playing with paragons so i didint noticed any bad AI =/

Alvarez · Dec 24, 2007, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Uh that's quite a nice list there. I should start paying attention to how and when they use skills, hehe. I know for a fact that my Koss is scared of using Heal Signet... not sure why...

Somewhat a different note on hero A.I; they seem to not follow as well as they once did. They drop behind when I engage in combat sometimes and don't move at all... next time it happens I'll take a screenshot. It's rather annoying when you need a hand and everyone is behind you an entire aggro circle and not moving.

Shadow Spirit · Dec 24, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

There's a lot of things heroes won't do. One of the ones I laugh at a lot is [card]Splinter Weapon[/card].

If you give a hero /Rt as a secondary for this skill, they seem to refuse to use it on themselves, so Splinter/Barrage heroes are out.

It takes some experience to figure out which builds you don't need to Micro on heroes.

But if you run a [card]Jagged Bones[/card] MM hero, you can roll most of PvE anyway...

Also, Heroes are scary good at interrupting. You just have to figure out what they excel at and use them that way.

gnome · Dec 24, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

i have seen the arcane echo thing...2x energy tap (on a mes dw =P) when sh is right nxt to it -.-
also the heal sig thing...they only use it on abt 100hp and then seem to die anyway
problem with wards...will only cast vs elements without some prompting, stability will be cast abt half the time, but melee...even if the warder has some monsters beating the crap out of him from melee range he will not cast the ward most of the time without me telling him to.
seen the random stopping thing too

Brianna · Dec 24, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Uh.. with Arcane Echo what the hell do you expect, them to read your mind and know which skill you want them to activate it for? Common sense people.. Disable it and click/use it when/on which skills you want.

Eh, I could go on forever with this, some of the stuff you posted is just a complete no-brainer, I mean they can't be perfect and play the game like human players do.

Oh and PS: Hero monks FAIL. Their AI just seems completely borked in general.

Stolen Souls · Dec 24, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Oh and PS: Hero monks FAIL. Their AI just seems completely borked in general.

I have to agree. >.>

And yeah, a lot of those things can be solved by micromanaging. :/

Kusandaa · Dec 24, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Oh and PS: Hero monks FAIL. Their AI just seems completely borked in general.

They're not to bad at healing - a prot hero, however... sucks. Very. Very. BAD. I'm not always micro-managing heroes but I laugh everytime they prot a minion, or when one of my other heroes/teammate dies when they could have been pre-protted. I ask for pre-prots when I end up pulling some stuff, or when I'm "tanking". Because heroes don't pre-prot, which kinda defeats the purpose, depending on the area...

Monks also heal/prot pets and minions, sometimes over party members.

And glyphs in general, they won't use it much. I loaded a build with Heal Party and GoLE on a hero monk once (not gonna do this mistake again) and he ingored GoLE quite often, resulting in Dunk running out of energy fast. I had to eventually micro-manage him and Masters to give him BRs every now and then.

Same thing with hero eles and Glyph of Sacrifice. See story below.

And a little story on how heroes fail for me - related to AI in particular, not really skills:
I was doing Rand/Thommis with a couple friends, and we had 2 or 3 heroes, one of them being Zhed. When we reach Thommis, we wiped by over aggro and had to res at the closest shrine. While we discussed pulling over Vent, we saw a little green dot in Thommis' mob... we highlight names.

Zhed Shadowhoof.

He's hard-casting Meteor Shower on Thommis, in his 20-man mob. He died before getting the spell off. We were laughing SO HARD on Vent, it was hilarious and I'll NEVER forget that. But IMHO that's one of the most stupid thing I've seen a hero do.

Another like this applies with the targeting function ("I'm targeting..." and not "I'm attacking...") I was capping skills with another guy, so we both had heroes. We didn't want to overaggro so we were standing back, trying to figure out if we could get the boss only. He targets the boss, and his heroes rush the mob.

I don't know why targeting an enemy in particular makes them rush for it. I'd understand the "I'm attacking <enemy>!" function (can't remember the keyboard shortcuts, I do those without thinking...) but TARGETING...

zwei2stein · Dec 24, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Maybe heroes can recognize bad skills and misuse them to make you remove them from their bars... Get a hint.

Clarissa F · Dec 24, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Gotta chose to disagree with hero monks failing. The problem is with people giving monks a wiki build and getting pissed they aren't awesome sauce, not knowing AI mechanics. Keep to simple, low-cast skills, and they do well. Never make them strict heal or protect. Hybrids do much better. They do condition removal very well. I'd much rather have Dunkoro than most of the human monks.

As for sins, give them a simple Flashing Blades/1-2-3 build. Anything else they can't handle well, and it will give them a bit of durability, considering their Naru-tard tendencies(damn j00, Zenmai).

Give Koss a simple axe build with cleave(once again, stick to low cost.) ,steady stance, FGJ, and endure pain, believe it or not, and he has great survivability. I farmed Norn in the Fells with that build, and in clearing the area he never died. Lol, I even forgot he had no shield until 2/3 of the way through one clearing session.

Gwen is a better PB mesmer than any human, as your ping will never be as good as she is. I love all the profanity my enemies have when she uses a Dom build.

Remember to treat your heroes as newbie players whose builds you can outfit. Low energy, spammable skills are perfect, as are builds that don't rely on crazy mechanics to make them a success. The fact that people can vanquish most areas of the game with H/H shows they can be effective.

There's a reason most people H/H instead of pug.

A lot better than a pug wammo with 5 monk skills on his bar.

Mitchel · Dec 24, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Heroes remove Cracked Armor when you are using Aggresive Refrain.

blakecraw · Dec 24, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Necro heroes don't use Icy Veins as a normal nuke, they only cast it on enemies that are about to die (as in less than 33% health), in which case the enemy often dies before they finish casting. It has a 30 second duration, so they should just use it as a normal nuke, because pve mobs won't last 30 seconds.

Zeek Aran · Dec 24, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

You forgot PS as a source of healing with DF bonus.

Very good list. Hopefully ANET will notice.

Hollow Gein · Dec 24, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Gotta chose to disagree with hero monks failing. The problem is with people giving monks a wiki build and getting pissed they aren't awesome sauce, not knowing AI mechanics. Keep to simple, low-cast skills, and they do well. Never make them strict heal or protect. Hybrids do much better. They do condition removal very well. I'd much rather have Dunkoro than most of the human monks.

As for sins, give them a simple Flashing Blades/1-2-3 build. Anything else they can't handle well, and it will give them a bit of durability, considering their Naru-tard tendencies(damn j00, Zenmai).

Give Koss a simple axe build with cleave(once again, stick to low cost.) ,steady stance, FGJ, and endure pain, believe it or not, and he has great survivability. I farmed Norn in the Fells with that build, and in clearing the area he never died. Lol, I even forgot he had no shield until 2/3 of the way through one clearing session.

Gwen is a better PB mesmer than any human, as your ping will never be as good as she is. I love all the profanity my enemies have when she uses a Dom build.

Remember to treat your heroes as newbie players whose builds you can outfit. Low energy, spammable skills are perfect, as are builds that don't rely on crazy mechanics to make them a success. The fact that people can vanquish most areas of the game with H/H shows they can be effective.

There's a reason most people H/H instead of pug.

A lot better than a pug wammo with 5 monk skills on his bar.

Definitely agree with this. As mentioned, unless you micro-manage your heroes, they'll never perform as well as a human player (Though there times when even that is questionable..LOL!!)

makosi · Dec 24, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

2 Paragon heroes both with "It's Just a Flesh Wound!".

They spam it on eachother until their energy runs out.

RSGashapon · Dec 24, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Greatest Hero AI fail? That's an easy one...

Zhed.

I have lost count of how many times that idiot centaur has run off, while flagged even, to go play with a group of level 28's a quarter mile away. Skill choice is irrelevant in his case.

netniwk · Dec 24, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

Greatest Hero AI fail? That's an easy one...

Zhed.

I have lost count of how many times that idiot centaur has run off, while flagged even, to go play with a group of level 28's a quarter mile away. Skill choice is irrelevant in his case.

Yup,Leeroy is his middelname.

Peter Panic · Dec 24, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

idk if it happens with rits too, but n/rt given life will spam it as much as possible when out of combat (even stops running with the group to cast) and then almost never uses it when in combat. its really annoying

~ Dan ~ · Dec 24, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

What's the point in this thread? A list was made ages ago - ANET know how fail they are. They just chose to do shit all about it, as usual.

Shame that they can work so much on monster AI in eotn yet we get this fail crap.

Crom The Pale · Dec 24, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Warrior Heros often fail to utilize fully charged adrenaline skills.

I ran a Dslash build on my Koss with only FGJ and Dragon Slash, once Dslash charges up he only uses it every 4th attack when it could be used ever attack.

As for hero monks they are fantastic healers with the right skill set, just don't expect them to run any kind of split build. ie: prot/healing or healing/condition/hex removal.

Heros in general do have certain builds they run better than others, it takes some time to figure out what skills they will use and what combos simply fail on heros.

Also note that some heros work well with eachother and hench while others seam to couter each others. example - Razah + Lina, if Razah has Brutal Weapon Lina will cast an enchantment upon every char Razah casts the weapon spell on canceling the effects of the weapon spell.

Nevin · Dec 24, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I think I've run into every problem you've had, thats why I stick to very basic PvE builds.

MM's
SF's
WoH healers

Sometimes if I feel like spicing it up, bring some interrupters just for kicks. What I really love doing though is giving my MM jagged bones and death nova, he can micro it like nothing.