Curse

voidvector · Mar 07, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

What's the best IAS for heroes? I've tried using flail with a cancel, but they are usually too stupid to know when to use each, and getting kited too much by mobs. Any suggestion?

I used to run a tactics build with Watch Yourself on them, but with the recent WYs nerf, I might have to reconsider.

Stormlord Alex · Mar 07, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Use Paragon heroes.

Same damage output, better IAS, better support skills - and heroes can't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up chasing after targets and general positional awareness if they're throwing Spears.

No, really. Go Paragons... you won't regret it.

Nightmares Hammer · Mar 07, 2008, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Use Paragon heroes.

Same damage output, better IAS, better support skills - and heroes can't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up chasing after targets and general positional awareness if they're throwing Spears.

No, really. Go Paragons... you won't regret it.

QFT

Warrior heroes are stupid.

Racthoh · Mar 07, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Melee heroes in general are bad because they kite at first sign of AoE no matter how little damage it deals. They're especially bad with Adrenaline skills. I wish my warrior heroes would use their skills like casters do; mash until you're out of energy.

Improvavel · Mar 07, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Weird my koss doesnt seem to have any problems... and sometimes he even pull some aggro around him that might make obsidian tanks blush (on the other hand they are playing obsidian...).

Triple chop koss always seemed to do his job, although the only other stance i give him besides flail is enraging charge.

voidvector · Mar 07, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Are you saying to use para heroes in melee or to abandon melee heroes all together?

Stormlord Alex · Mar 07, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by voidvector

Are you saying to use para heroes in melee or to abandon melee heroes all together?

Para heroes throwing spears.
There's no reason to use them in melee at all.

shru · Mar 07, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

I'd have to agree that the melee hero's AI is severly lacking, most likely due to the situational awareness discussed earlier. As Stormlord Alex suggested, paragon heros are a much more viable alternative. With their ranged attacks, they are less likely to fall prey to the headless chicken mentality seen so much.

Yichi · Mar 08, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Use Paragon heroes.

Same damage output, better IAS, better support skills - and heroes can't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up chasing after targets and general positional awareness if they're throwing Spears.

No, really. Go Paragons... you won't regret it.

That...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Melee heroes in general are bad because they kite at first sign of AoE no matter how little damage it deals. They're especially bad with Adrenaline skills. I wish my warrior heroes would use their skills like casters do; mash until you're out of energy.

They will. Give Koss Shock or D-Dagger...

blue.rellik · Mar 08, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Only melee heroes I would even come close to advocate is a dervish one but that's mainly because of wild blow and them acting as orders. A paragon hero is superior to every other weapon hero, the next closest is a BHA ranger

not so newb · Mar 13, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

I think that flail would be best but since that doesnt work maybe u should try berserkers stance maybe?

Arkantos · Mar 13, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

If you really want to run warrior heroes, I'd go with flurry + zealous weapon, no other energy skills. All your other choices are pretty bad.

Draginvry · Mar 13, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

If you really want to run warrior heroes, I'd go with flurry

Flurry might work, since they apparently don't know how to use any of the other IAS stances at all.

I've been running Tiger Stance on my Koss now that I recently specced him to Strength instead of Tactics *cough*

Sir Pandra Pierva · Mar 13, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

doesn't change the fact that they dont know how to use the adren bars right
tried using frenzy rush combo a long time ago with heal sig. needless to say koss pulled classic wammo tactic oh shit under attack while under frenzy put up healsig......i hate him now.

i'd go para heros or caster or ranger.

i have also watched koss try to modify a hammer spike.

crushing blow then backbreaker. i hate him so much

kazjun · Mar 13, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

If you're using warrior heroes, why not flail? Not like you need to stance dance in pve. Only time I remember flail not being good was in moddock crevice mission I think. The one where you had to catch the runners for bonus. Between water snares and cripslash it was pretty easy. Only time I didn't bring flail on warrior heroes.

Crom The Pale · Mar 14, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

I find that war heros work just fine as long as you craft them a bar that they can't possibly screw up. You can't expect a hero to run a Dslash bar, they just don't have the proper AI for that.

For my hero wars IAS its Tiger Stance all the way, they can't really mess up as long as they dont target a blocking foe. Here is a short bar that works for me, in most zones.

[skill]Tiger Stance[/skill][skill]Crippling Slash[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Counterattack[/skill][skill=text]Disarm[/skill][skill]Lion's Comfort[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Arkantos · Mar 14, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Tiger stance is pretty bad because of it's recharge, not to mention the amount of blocking enemies in PvE.

LifeInfusion · Mar 14, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Use paragon heroes, warrior heroes can't use adrenaline right and kiting is something they don't get (chasing after thing isnt exactly ideal). They also don't switch targets unless you lock them on a new target.

I'd say go with Flail if you have to. Tiger stance's uptime is pretty bad and missing hexes, blind, and block will kill that.

EDIT: the other warrior-based IASes: berserker stance which ends on skill use, Burst of Aggression which kills adrenaline and they can't use it properly, Flurry which may be worth it considering most of the damage is done through + damage from skills (mobs have high armor level and this increase in attack speed in exchange for less base damage may work).

Age · Mar 14, 2008, 01:24 AM // 01:24

My Koss when playing Monk seems to be fine maybe they a geared like the henchies.I do use flail though I will have to keep an eye out.Thanks for the info.

Pyro maniac · Mar 14, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Or use koss with a spear.
Flail + some spear attacks is fine.