Curse

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

OK great, so finally after taking in 99% of your advice, here's my final (hopefully) MM hero build.

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Death Magic - 16
Soul Reaping - 9
Protection Prayers - 9

Although, one final question... I can't help but feel SOLS is somehow a waste of a skill slot considering my MM has 585 health & can lose more much more than 70 health from a single attack, and SOLS only heals him by 70 every 8 seconds.

Although I'm probably just overanalyzing.

Thanks for your help so far.

Now I have to figure out which 2 heroes to include in my other 2 hero slots

I was thinking Vekk with the following build as one of the heroes:

[skill]elemental attunement[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill][skill]searing heat[/skill][skill]teinai's heat[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Although I'm not sure whether this or a SF/SH build would be better for a hero, due to them spamming so much & not being concerned with wasting energy.

Burst Cancel · Mar 22, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

The concept of a minion bomber is different from standard MM - you want to get the maximum number of minions per body so you can put nova on them and blow things up everywhere. As a result, the only summon skill you really need is bone minion. Shambling Horror isn't terrible, but it's not necessary by any means.

If those are the kinds of ele bars you're thinking of running, I'd really suggest running something else - like the Rt/x. A lot of people underestimate the damage that Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage can do. Splinter, in particular, is worth potentially 492 damage per cast at just 12 spec and increases to 705 per cast at 14. Pretty good for a skill that's only 5e and has semi-spammable recharge.

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

The concept of a minion bomber is different from standard MM - you want to get the maximum number of minions per body so you can put nova on them and blow things up everywhere. As a result, the only summon skill you really need is bone minion. Shambling Horror isn't terrible, but it's not necessary by any means.

If those are the kinds of ele bars you're thinking of running, I'd really suggest running something else - like the Rt/x. A lot of people underestimate the damage that Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage can do. Splinter, in particular, is worth potentially 492 damage per cast at just 12 spec and increases to 705 per cast at 14. Pretty good for a skill that's only 5e and has semi-spammable recharge.

What's wrong with the ele bar I posted? Just wondering. And does splinter weapon work on minions or can it just be cast on melee hench/heroes because I probably won't even bother bringing a melee hench or hero in my party when I do PvE.

Burst Cancel · Mar 22, 2008, 07:44 AM // 07:44

You can run dual attunes with Rodgort's if you like, but the rest of the bar isn't really doing anything except causing AoE scatter, which is probably the last thing you want. I stopped running ele heroes because I couldn't think of what to fill their bars with without access to PvE skills. That said, a common option is E/Mo with stuff like Aegis tacked onto the end.

Splinter Weapon works on anything. Heroes will cast it indiscriminately, and damage will be going off all over the place. If you get buffed, make sure you wand something useful.

Devona's actually not a bad choice for H/Hing in EoTN. Backbreaker isn't the best warrior elite in the world, but you'll appreciate it when you fight bosses and just about any group with annoying casters (of which there is no shortage in EoTN).

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I stopped running ele heroes because I couldn't think of what to fill their bars with

^^ My problem. I didn't really know what to give my ele hero & seeing as when I play my elementalist, I go for all out attack/damage & leave the support to the rest of my team, I decided to give my ele hero the same build I use

Do you think a splinter weapon Rit would work better than a curses necro as a hero?

Also, would a rit hero cast splinter weapon on minons as I probably won't be using any melee H/H and I'd think wanding with SW would be a waste really

upier · Mar 22, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Do you think a splinter weapon Rit would work better than a curses necro as a hero?

Also, would a rit hero cast splinter weapon on minons as I probably won't be using any melee H/H and I'd think wanding with SW would be a waste really

You can always run a necro with curses and drop them and SR a bit so that you get channeling to 10.
That way you have curses - which are sweet and SW/Ancestor's which is also sweet. Plus you have SR which is just insane in PvE. That's the beauty of Necros and Eles. Necros have insane e-regen though SR, and eles have a much higher e-pool - and with some decent e-management - you can waste all that energy on stuff that will help the party instead of just damage.
And no - wanding with SW isn't a waste. Because the amount of AoE damage from Splinter does not depend on how much damage your normal attack does.

Oh and the ele bar.
As i was explained to - heroes use Rodgort's ONLY when the foe is low on HP. So If that is your only spamable offensive spell - they might not be as effective as you'd want them to be. Try something like the bar I suggested a few post back. If you are running SF - you kinda only want them to spam that - so don't waste slots on other skills. Still - there is nothing as good as just testing out different things. Try it - if you don't like it - try something else.

DarkSpirit · Mar 22, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Your Ele bar can be improved upon but it is not that bad for a hero.

I suggest you take in the suggestions here then make up your own mind because all of us will have very different preferences and suggestions. I suggest that you experiment, try things out, and go for what works best for you.

For hero energy management, besides dual attunement you can also use mind blast and if you are worried about AoE dispersing the crowd, you can add a snare like Deep Freeze which works well even with 0 water magic. You can even make a E/Rt with Splinter weapon and Savannah Heat if you like all out damage. You can also rely on energy management skill from your secondary profession, for example Auspicious Incantation as E/Me. That is just Fire.

If you like Air magic, you can go with Blinding Surge for damage and protection, Shell Shock for cracked armor, Enervating Chrage for weakness, then cast Epidemic as a E/Me to spread them around.

As for Earth, I find the hench Herta to be mostly sufficient but if you want to include Earth magic, Sandstorm and Ward against Melee are nice. Ward against Elements, Ward against Foes, and Eruption are also nice.

All I am giving are some ideas for you to mess around with rather than actual builds so you can pick and choose what you like.

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You can always run a necro with curses and drop them and SR a bit so that you get channeling to 10.
That way you have curses - which are sweet and SW/Ancestor's which is also sweet. Plus you have SR which is just insane in PvE. That's the beauty of Necros and Eles. Necros have insane e-regen though SR, and eles have a much higher e-pool - and with some decent e-management - you can waste all that energy on stuff that will help the party instead of just damage.
And no - wanding with SW isn't a waste. Because the amount of AoE damage from Splinter does not depend on how much damage your normal attack does.

Oh and the ele bar.
As i was explained to - heroes use Rodgort's ONLY when the foe is low on HP. So If that is your only spamable offensive spell - they might not be as effective as you'd want them to be. Try something like the bar I suggested a few post back. If you are running SF - you kinda only want them to spam that - so don't waste slots on other skills. Still - there is nothing as good as just testing out different things. Try it - if you don't like it - try something else.

Thank you very much. I've decided that my 3 heros are going to be an ele, a Minion Master and a Curses Necro with SW + AR

Is this a decent lineup? Maybe, base it on what my hero lineup USED to be as shown in the first post... It was a MM with a really crappy build, a hero healer & a mesmer pure interrupter.

And Spirit, I just read your post. I guess you're right about testing things out and picking what I like best, thank you.

Burst Cancel · Mar 22, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

The only time SW is a waste is when there are fewer than 3 foes adjacent to whatever is being hit. It really doesn't matter how you trigger SW, as long as you're getting full damage from it.

Given a choice between a curse necro and a SW ... I'd combine their bars. In most of my teams I actually run Rt primaries with 14 channeling as my splinterbots, but an N/Rt with 12/9/9 (or similar) is fine. The most useful skills on the curse bar are Rip, Enfeebling Blood, and Barbs. Reckless+SS is nice but given the frequency of hero usage it isn't nearly as strong in practice as it looks on paper.

I mentioned it once in passing but it's worth pointing out again - if you have decent dwarf rank, dwarf weapon on barrage rangers is pretty funny. More to the point, if you can keep the enemies balled you'll have all the damage and shutdown you'll ever need (unless, of course, the enemies can't actually be knocked down). GDW + Ebon Standard is a +35 armor-ignoring buff with maxed titles, and you can tack on stuff like orders, favorable, winnowing, etc. Rangers have the additional benefit of being pretty sturdy - 100AL vs. elemental, and whirling defense/throw dirt vs. physical.

Again though, I'm just throwing out ideas from what I've run in the past, and most of this is area-specific. if you want one build that will take you anywhere, Sabway is your one-stop-shop.

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I've actually taken a few ideas from the sabway builds & incorporated them into ways I feel would benefit me better. Maybe they'll work better, maybe they won't but at least I've designed the majority of something myself which is what I'm pleased about.

Anyway, the ele build I posted is the one that I use, so I gave it to my hero. I've now changed that hero's build to the following. Do you feel this is an improvement?

[skill]searing flames[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]searing heat[/skill][skill]teinai's heat[/skill][skill]liquid flame[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Fire Magic - 16
Energy Storage - 12

I wanted my hero to spam SF as much as he could but also didn't want SF to be the ONLY fire skill he used so here's my reasoning for picking the skills above...

SF - Can spam it over & over

Fire attunement - self explanatory

Glowing Gaze - for energy

SH/TH - They both recharge in 30 secs so once he's casted them, he won't waste his time on spamming them & therefore ignoring the main attack spell which is SF, as they're non spammable. The same goes for Liquid Flame as it recharges in 15 secs.

GOLE - See glowing gaze.

As you can see, this build utilizes a few attack skills, but doesn't hinder the spamming capability of SF, as once he's casted SH/TH, GOLE, FA & LF he can cast SF & GG to his heart's content until the other skills have recharged.

Hopefully Vekk will use this build well & be able to maintain energy with it. Oh and I didn't give him any protection skills as my MM already has Aegis & PS on his bar, and with a protection monk plus a Curses necro with Rit secondary (which I'm going to design the build for next) the team should have enough defense. IMO.

Anyway, what do YOU guys think?

Super Igor · Mar 22, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Wait, whufc89, are u running the same hero concept all the time?? Omg...

Btw, SF isnt good imo, doesnt deal any significant damage in PvE compared to, say, SH Nuker, u are also an Ele so AR/SW combo is pointless, so I would recomment u running SH Nuker yourself and taking another hero with [skill]Deep Freeze[/skill] and generaly the same bar, also take a non-minion bomber MM cuz u wont have much necros anyway so the only thing u would need is a powerful enough minion wall and take a Hybrid onk hero Heal+Prot for heals, u can aso take blood ritual to give your monk some energy if he needs it.

~Super Igor

~

Super Igor · Mar 22, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

[skill]Savannah Heat[/skill][skill]Searing Heat[/skill][skill]Teinai's Heat[/skill][skill]Mark Of Rodgort[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Sacrifice[/skill][skill]Meteor Shower[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill]
[skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Searing Heat[/skill][skill]Teinai's Heat[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Flesh Of My Flesh[/skill]
[skill]Order of Undeath[/skill][skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Blood Of The Master[/skill][skill]Heal Area[/skill][skill]Signet Of Lost Souls[/skill]
[skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill][skill]Light Of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill]

Looks very classic and effective, good synergy, the monk can also have patient spirit and cure hex but I didnt put them on the bar cuz they dont appear as skill cards and dont look so pretty. >.<

LoD is still viable after nerf sonsidering u would have a pair of henchies with woh anyway.

~Super Igor

~

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Sorry but I've made my mind up now & I'm sticking with the SF ele, MM bomber & Curses necro as my new heroes. It's just too much hassle to get different opinions of what to use & what not to use from every single person & having to change what I previously felt was working fine for me, just because one person says it's bad.

I appreciate everyone's help, but like I said, I'm sticking with my final choice now. I'm sure you can appreciate where I'm coming from. I mean, you get a bunch of people saying "yeah a SF bar is a brilliant build to use for PvE" and then somebody else comes along and says "nah it's crap" etc etc.

Anyway, I have one last question before this thread can be closed or whatever... On the Jagged Bones description it says that jagged horrors cause bleeding with their attacks, but how long does the bleeding last?

Super Igor · Mar 22, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

a lot

/12 chars

upier · Mar 22, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

I appreciate everyone's help, but like I said, I'm sticking with my final choice now. I'm sure you can appreciate where I'm coming from. I mean, you get a bunch of people saying "yeah a SF bar is a brilliant build to use for PvE" and then somebody else comes along and says "nah it's crap" etc etc.

That's kinda the way it should be.
You were given a few alternatives and you made the decision what you want to run.
Try it out - play around with it a bit - and if you feel there should be more to it - experiment (now that you have a few general pointers) - or ask again.
But all in all you should be pretty set.
Sure thins will go wrong - but hey - you live to learn.
Good luck!

Coloneh · Mar 22, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Thank you very much. I've decided that my 3 heros are going to be an ele, a Minion Master and a Curses Necro with SW + AR

im not bothering to read all of this, so ill just post what i would use for those three.

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]

[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill][skill]Barbs[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill]-optional-[skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]

[skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill][skill]Earth Attunement[/skill][skill]Ward Against Melee[/skill][skill]Ward Against Elements[/skill][skill]Eruption[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]Extinguish[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

bluemoonxia · Mar 22, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Do NOT use Death Nova.

So many people put it on because it is a part of the 3N build they copied from Wiki. And it looks good on paper. But if you ever pay attention to what mm bomber is doing, you will see as soon he get 8-10 minions, he is busy casting death nova. It put him lag behind the group most of the time. Your minion should be up front to tank for your members, NOT lag behind the group most of the time. You might just take a henchman,--that could be more helpful.

Coloneh · Mar 22, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoonxia

Do NOT use Death Nova.

So many people put it on because it is a part of the 3N build they copied from Wiki. And it looks good on paper. But if you ever pay attention to what mm bomber is doing, you will see as soon he get 8-10 minions, he is busy casting death nova. It put him lag behind the group most of the time. Your minion should be up front to tank for your members, NOT lag behind the group most of the time. You might just take a henchman,--that could be more helpful.

you sir are an idiot. your heroes do not lead the group, tell them what to do. direct their movements and disable skills. heroes are godly at casting death nova at the right time and spreading it all over the place.

DarkSpirit · Mar 22, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Sorry but I've made my mind up now & I'm sticking with the SF ele, MM bomber & Curses necro as my new heroes.

Good call.

Although you should have a backup where the SF hero is concerned since some monsters are resistant to fire and don't burn, for example, Destroyers. Also what to do in places that do not have that many corpses? It is good to always have some backup plan for different situations and when you are against monsters that are designed to counter your normal build.

Also try to take henchies to fill in the gaps in your build, if you can. For example, if I dont have interrupts on my heroes, I would take Zho, the interrupt hench along. Play around and try things out to fit your own style. Good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoonxia

Do NOT use Death Nova.

So many people put it on because it is a part of the 3N build they copied from Wiki. And it looks good on paper. But if you ever pay attention to what mm bomber is doing, you will see as soon he get 8-10 minions, he is busy casting death nova. It put him lag behind the group most of the time. Your minion should be up front to tank for your members, NOT lag behind the group most of the time. You might just take a henchman,--that could be more helpful.

Just flag your MM in front if that bothers you. A bit of a hassel but some people dont mind that. Not a big deal IMO.

bluemoonxia · Mar 22, 2008, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

you sir are an idiot. your heroes do not lead the group, tell them what to do. direct their movements and disable skills. heroes are godly at casting death nova at the right time and spreading it all over the place.

Who said the heroes lead the group? lol
Are you still in sleep or what?

And no they do not use it at the right time. And when the group move forward, the mm always spend time to cast death nova, that make him far behind the group.

Now take the word idiot back, and put in your mouth now.